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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 7:33 PM
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^ Why do you say that?
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 9:11 PM
Spire Spire is offline
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Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
Does Halifax have an app / GPS on the busses to let you know when exactly they are coming? What about stop notifications when you are on the bus (i.e. pre-recorded or computer voiced)?

Seems like its still very old school when these cheap upgrades would make a world of difference (and drivers more accountable).
They're coming, starting next year. After over a decade of trying to keep a barely functioning in-house system alive, Halifax Transit awarded a contract to Trapeze Systems last year to supply an entirely new, off-the-shelf AVL system, which is proven to work in other cities.

http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...0114ca1112.pdf
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2015, 10:10 PM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Well, HRM is trying to bury a rail option yet again:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...stem-1.3236920



Link to the report:

http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/SCtr...924tsc913a.pdf
What they are really saying is: We do not have enough buses to shuttle the people from there to the major employers that will use it. So, we will just leave it be.
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Well, HRM is trying to bury a rail option yet again:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...stem-1.3236920



Link to the report:

http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/SCtr...924tsc913a.pdf
I skim read the report. basically why spend 62million on startup costs when you can just buy more buses..

Completely ignores the fact that rail is a separate ROW. I challenge you to build a dedicated bus row for that price. (IIRC Ottawa's Bus Transitway is around 13million a KM)

That changes the economics alot.
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 1:06 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
^ Why do you say that?
Using the ice cream analogy, the city is choosing to stick with the status quo rather than invest in something better that may not have an immediate return on their investment. I was really just trying to have fun with the analogy.

In reality, the ice cream analogy falls apart when you consider that an alternate form of transit that doesn't contribute to clogging up the roads is really what they should be shooting for. As Ziobrop says, it is a completely different ROW and thus is a clear increase in capacity and not a simple displacement (i.e. replace low capacity cars with higher capacity cars [buses]). Commuter rail would have no effect on road traffic other than to decrease it. Less traffic (cars and buses) on the road system means easier and safer bicycling (for example if traffic were decreased it's possible that more bike lanes could be instituted), so there are benefits to many. Yes, it might cost money, but most things that are worthwhile doing do in fact cost money.

Now about that ice cream. I'll have a double scoop of chocolate, please, and I don't want to wait.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 1:40 PM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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If the cost per person is too high then the city needs to consider some other form of transit that moves more people for less money
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  #87  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 2:52 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Originally Posted by Spire View Post
They're coming, starting next year. After over a decade of trying to keep a barely functioning in-house system alive, Halifax Transit awarded a contract to Trapeze Systems last year to supply an entirely new, off-the-shelf AVL system, which is proven to work in other cities.

http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...0114ca1112.pdf
Thank-you for the information... it makes sense to go with proven models!!!
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  #88  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 3:12 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax View Post
If the cost per person is too high then the city needs to consider some other form of transit that moves more people for less money
How do they determine what is too high? How does it compare to the cost of commuter rail in other areas?

What other alternative are you thinking about?

This also makes me wonder if they've factored in the costs of wear and tear on the road infrastructure by adding more heavy truck traffic in the form of buses vs decreasing it by actually taking traffic off the roads. I think I already know the answer to that.
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  #89  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 8:27 PM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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[QUOTE=OldDartmouthMark;7172604]How do they determine what is too high? How does it compare to the cost of commuter rail in other areas?

What other alternative are you thinking about?

Funny you ask.

I really think you start with a (rapid) transit system in the center not the extremities.

Supposedly moving 150,000 people around the peninsula should have greater value than 3,000 from way out.

I like street cars on a couple of routes on the peninsula and the suburban buses can feed into the street cars. I see no need for a lot of buses in the core
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  #90  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 8:48 PM
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[QUOTE=ILoveHalifax;7173089]
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
How do they determine what is too high? How does it compare to the cost of commuter rail in other areas?

What other alternative are you thinking about?

Funny you ask.

I really think you start with a (rapid) transit system in the center not the extremities.

Supposedly moving 150,000 people around the peninsula should have greater value than 3,000 from way out.

I like street cars on a couple of routes on the peninsula and the suburban buses can feed into the street cars. I see no need for a lot of buses in the core
The idea of the 1 line commuter rail to start is a good idea.

They could easily implement it. Build some platforms, buy/rent trains and coaches, and within a short length of time, you have fares paying for the work.

The work for LRT or streetcars means more snarled traffic for months on end.

Should they do both, yes. However, I think doing the commuter line(s) would be quicker.

What the city could also do is make certain streets a transit mall. I would suggest From Dal - University, South Park, Spring Garden To Barrington. From Via Station - Barrington, Upper Water to CFB Dockyard.

Those 2 Transit malls, if they had double decker buses or Articulated buses would be able to move the heavy traffic coming off the train.

If they keep the streets 2 lanes wide and have the buses ride the curb lanes, they could build the LRT on those streets while the buses run.
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  #91  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 8:54 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax View Post

I really think you start with a (rapid) transit system in the center not the extremities.

Supposedly moving 150,000 people around the peninsula should have greater value than 3,000 from way out.
I agree, though this would embolden the "downtown gets everything, rural HRM is ignored" voices.

We need to be able to move people easily and quickly around the core via mass transit, enabling reliably car-less movement between offices and universities and tourist destinations and the densest, easiest-to-serve clusters of the residential population.

I think short-haul urban transport within the city is just as important as commuter transit, and maybe more important in terms of improving the core itself.
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  #92  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 9:42 PM
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I agree, though this would embolden the "downtown gets everything, rural HRM is ignored" voices.

We need to be able to move people easily and quickly around the core via mass transit, enabling reliably car-less movement between offices and universities and tourist destinations and the densest, easiest-to-serve clusters of the residential population.

I think short-haul urban transport within the city is just as important as commuter transit, and maybe more important in terms of improving the core itself.
By doing the transit malls and the Commuter rail, you are serving both. Spend the money to get the rail running. Close off streets downtown to non transit/emergency vehicles. Turn the end of Hollis into one big bus loop.

The people stuck in traffic are trying to get to the Dockyard/Stad, the office towers and Dal U. By doing both, you are appealing to both.

The next step would be a more express route to downtown Dartmouth. This would include turning the middle lane on the bridge into a reversing lane for bus only.
Jut imagine the look on all the drivers as buses going both ways are passing them They may switch.

Halifax needs to make some giant steps that will piss off some. Those pissed off people may have a hard time getting around downtown or crossing the bridge. However, after a while, the Commuter Rail, the Transit mall, and eventually, the LRT/streetcars will become more appealing and busy.
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  #93  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:17 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
By doing the transit malls and the Commuter rail, you are serving both. Spend the money to get the rail running. Close off streets downtown to non transit/emergency vehicles. Turn the end of Hollis into one big bus loop.

The people stuck in traffic are trying to get to the Dockyard/Stad, the office towers and Dal U. By doing both, you are appealing to both.

The next step would be a more express route to downtown Dartmouth. This would include turning the middle lane on the bridge into a reversing lane for bus only.
Jut imagine the look on all the drivers as buses going both ways are passing them They may switch.

Halifax needs to make some giant steps that will piss off some. Those pissed off people may have a hard time getting around downtown or crossing the bridge. However, after a while, the Commuter Rail, the Transit mall, and eventually, the LRT/streetcars will become more appealing and busy.

I don't think you can get a 40' shipping container on a streetcar.
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  #94  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 11:59 PM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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I sometimes wonder about the possibility of building a bridge across the harbor at the south end and removing vehicles from the McDonald bridge restricting it to street cars bikes and pedestrians only
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  #95  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2015, 12:23 AM
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I don't think you can get a 40' shipping container on a streetcar.
They can go on Hollis and Lower Water till they build the Halifax side of the Circ.
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  #96  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2015, 12:25 AM
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I sometimes wonder about the possibility of building a bridge across the harbor at the south end and removing vehicles from the McDonald bridge restricting it to street cars bikes and pedestrians only
The Third Crossing? There is plans for a tunnel system.

Change the old bridge to a transit mall would be great.
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  #97  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2015, 1:02 AM
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What should be done regardless is that the middle reversing lane should be transit and HOV exclusive during peak times.
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  #98  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2015, 1:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
What should be done regardless is that the middle reversing lane should be transit and HOV exclusive during peak times.
That sounds great in theory. However, that alone will not fix anything. Unless there are additional transit malls on both sides of the harbour, buses will be stuck in incredibly long lines of traffic getting to their dedicated lane, making the overall commute even slower.


This discussion has me fantasizing about sticking a TBM in the railcut at Coburg and having it tunnel under Spring Garden and Barrington and come out at a redesigned Cogswell neighbourhood. A line would start at Mumford, and travel to stations at Dal, Robie, South Park, Library, Prince/Sackville and Scotia Square with a connection to the ferries. It would be wildly expensive, if not impossible to tunnel through all the rock. But if higher order transit is going to work, the corridor largely served by the #1 is where the most people are travelling, and would stand to have the largest impact on commutes.
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  #99  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2015, 1:37 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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[QUOTE=ILoveHalifax;7173089]
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
How do they determine what is too high? How does it compare to the cost of commuter rail in other areas?

What other alternative are you thinking about?

Funny you ask.

I really think you start with a (rapid) transit system in the center not the extremities.

Supposedly moving 150,000 people around the peninsula should have greater value than 3,000 from way out.

I like street cars on a couple of routes on the peninsula and the suburban buses can feed into the street cars. I see no need for a lot of buses in the core
Interesting take on that, moving people efficiently around the peninsula would certainly have value. However, if no improvements are made to the commuter situation, then won't we still have congestion downtown from all the commuters bringing their cars into the area? Don't you think that this situation needs to be addressed as well?
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  #100  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2015, 1:58 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by curnhalio View Post
That sounds great in theory. However, that alone will not fix anything. Unless there are additional transit malls on both sides of the harbour, buses will be stuck in incredibly long lines of traffic getting to their dedicated lane, making the overall commute even slower.


This discussion has me fantasizing about sticking a TBM in the railcut at Coburg and having it tunnel under Spring Garden and Barrington and come out at a redesigned Cogswell neighbourhood. A line would start at Mumford, and travel to stations at Dal, Robie, South Park, Library, Prince/Sackville and Scotia Square with a connection to the ferries. It would be wildly expensive, if not impossible to tunnel through all the rock. But if higher order transit is going to work, the corridor largely served by the #1 is where the most people are travelling, and would stand to have the largest impact on commutes.
Yeah, I get where you're coming from. It seems to me, that as the city grows and peninsula population increases we will eventually get to the point where a lot of money has to be spent to undertake a big project. We can patch it up and add street car lines etc., but surface transit using existing ROWs will probably hit capacity sooner rather than later.

I think the time is now to start thinking about where we want to be 50+ years from now. Waiting until we need it will make it ultimately undoable.

Of course, that depends on how quickly our population will grow. How many people will live in the city by then, and where will the population be concentrated? Downtown still has some capacity for population density increases, the south end will probably not see much density growth, as it is largely established with single family homes. We are already seeing quite a few tall residentials being built in the north end Robie area, and the mainland as well as downtown Dartmouth will follow suit. However there is still a lot of growth happening in the 'suburbs' along the 102, Bedford Highway and beyond, so I think that commuter service from those areas still needs to be factored in.

However, we will still likely all buy in to the idea that it 'costs too much' and thus be mired into a slightly improved version of what we have now, with more traffic and similar level of convenience to transit customers as current. After all, it wouldn't be Halifax if we were too forward thinking...
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