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  #1  
Old Posted May 31, 2014, 5:57 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Plans for New Arenas in Halifax & Dartmouth

The following story was posted in the General Updates and News section.

(source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...osal-1.2659592)
Halifax Forum could close under new arena proposal
City staff recommending 2 major recreation projects to replace aging facilities
CBC News Posted: May 30, 2014 1:16 PM AT Last Updated: May 30, 2014 5:48 PM AT

Two major recreation projects are being contemplated for the Halifax region, with municipal staff recommending two new arenas be built to replace a number of aging facilities, including the Halifax Forum and the Centennial Arena.

City councillors with the audit and finance committee will meet Thursday to discuss the proposal and are being asked to recommend it to regional council.

While the prospect of new arenas is being welcomed in a city where ice time is a hot commodity, some are unhappy older facilities could be forced to shut their doors.

The chairman of the Halifax Forum Community Association says he’s "stunned" by the recommendation of city bureaucrats and vows his group will fight any attempt to close the complex.

....

There are quite a few factors that have been considered for the Long Term Arena Strategy initiated on August 14, 2012 and discussed in the following two documents from halifax.ca. There are also renderings for various alternatives.
http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/SCcp...1schedules.pdf
http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/SCcp...sc41report.pdf

The Community Planning & Economic Development Standing Committee is recommending that the Halifax Forum and Civic arenas be declared surplus and be replaced by a 4-pad arena complex at CFB Windsor Park. This has some pros and cons:
Pros:
1) It is likely the cheapest option since it would be a joint venture with DND and it would free up the Forum site for redevelopment.
2) As mentioned in the Community Planning Committee report, this could result in the Halifax Forum being demolished and broken into smaller blocks with more street frontage.
3) It would allow ageing arenas to be replaced with a more central 4-pad arena with lower operating cost.
Cons:
1) The Halifax Forum is a part of the Halifax heritage since it opened in 1927 and some people have fond memories of various events that were held there.
2) The Halifax Forum currently has 4,610 seats for ice events and can seat an additional 1250 for staged events (source: http://www.halifaxforum.ca/venues/halifax-forum). This seating capacity would be lost as a secondary venue to the Metro Centre.

Another 4-pad arena is also being proposed in Dartmouth with a recommended site of Shannon Park. A stadium is also briefly mentioned as having being considered for Shannon Park. Although not discussed in the report, developing the site for a 4-pad arena would likely include some of the servicing for Shannon Park that would also be required for a future stadium (parking, roads, demolitions of some old military buildings, etc).

Last edited by fenwick16; Jun 1, 2014 at 8:02 PM.
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  #2  
Old Posted May 31, 2014, 9:35 PM
Phalanx Phalanx is offline
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While it would be nice to see the area in and around the forum redeveloped, it would be a shame to lose it as a sport and mid-sized performance venue. There really isn't much else in the city to compare, and multi-pad arenas are often built without seating that could match what it holds. I live a few blocks away, and walk by it often, and it still seems to be in quite regular use for sporting events, concerts, community events and other things.

As for the historical value of the forum, perhaps the building could be preserved and redeveloped a la the MLG redevelopment. That would still free up the parking lot and other areas around the building for redevelopment.
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  #3  
Old Posted May 31, 2014, 10:06 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
While it would be nice to see the area in and around the forum redeveloped, it would be a shame to lose it as a sport and mid-sized performance venue. There really isn't much else in the city to compare, and multi-pad arenas are often built without seating that could match what it holds. I live a few blocks away, and walk by it often, and it still seems to be in quite regular use for sporting events, concerts, community events and other things.

As for the historical value of the forum, perhaps the building could be preserved and redeveloped a la the MLG redevelopment. That would still free up the parking lot and other areas around the building for redevelopment.
Agreed. People keep talking about the lack of good mid-sized performance venues (Rebecca Cohn excepted). Would it be more cost-effective to renovate an existing building rather than build a new one? I don't know, but I suspect so...

Alternatively, a Maple Leaf Gardens redevelopment-esque solution could be good: Convert the Forum into a large-format grocery store, like the Gardens was, move in the Sobeys store currently at Windsor and North, and demolish the current, suburban-scaled Sobeys building, freeing an entire North End block for new development.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2014, 1:54 AM
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W.Sobchak W.Sobchak is offline
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I'm of the mind they could dig down 6 stories, and build a 4 pad, then build a 25k seat sunken bowl stadium on the Forum/Civic Centre lands.

As for the Dartmouth location, maybe the Dartmouth sportsplex? An active lifestyle hotbed that sorely needs a face-lift and additions/remodeling. Plus much more central and accessible than SP.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2014, 4:39 PM
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Waye Mason Waye Mason is offline
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While the numbers for the four pad at Willow Park are correct and cannot be argued, they are incomplete in that they sidestep the fact that the Forum (as has been noted) is a sports and entertainment site in a way that the BMO is not. Also the proposed 1200 seats does not meet the need of SMU and Dal for tournament play-offs, which they have said is 1700.

I've had entertainment and sports people say that the Forum is required especially during the upcoming period of renovation and even more during the eventual replacement at the Metro Centre. There has been a long held plan to move the old score board and seats out of the HMC into the Forum to make it more competitive. The MPR (old bingo) is a music and trade show venue.

Elsewhere in the report is says 3 pads can work when talking about Dartmouth. I am inclined to say "3 pad at Forum in 3 phases over 5 years, start on Dartmouth 3-4 pad next year" though C. Walker is going to fight to save Centennial.

If the CF wants to partner at the Forum we can talk about partnering with the universities, if not then we can just do the 3 pad, I guess.

I may change my mind before we vote on this but these are my first thoughts. Keep your suggestions coming.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2014, 6:45 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Here are a couple renderings of a proposed renovation of the Halifax Forum complex, which would include an exterior and interior renovation of the Halifax Forum, an additional arena and additional public space (source: http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/SCcp...1schedules.pdf). The proposal was submitted to HRM by the Halifax Forum Community Association. The same document also shows a 2-pad proposed by Dalhousie/St Mary's universities in the South-end (adjacent to Gorsebrook Park), and a 4-pad by CFB Halifax for Windsor Park. HRM Council will have to decide which is best for the community.







Although my opinion isn't important since I am no longer a Halifax resident, I would hate to see the Halifax Forum demolished. In another 13 years it will be 100 years old and it is one of the few remaining large arenas in North America from the 1920's or earlier.

Last edited by fenwick16; Jun 1, 2014 at 9:00 PM.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2014, 9:01 PM
DigitalNinja DigitalNinja is offline
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I personally would hate to see the forum go. It is so much more than just a rink in it's current state. As for new rinks would something like this: http://www.sprungarenas.com/ work in some areas of Halifax? I don't really think there is the need to spend so much money on a rink and the savings could be put towards a stadium. But 6 million per ice surface isn't bad I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong...
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  #8  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2014, 1:37 AM
xanaxanax xanaxanax is offline
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I don't think Sobeys would ever be interested in moving into the 1920s portion of the forum, but I agree that part of the building should be saved at any cost for whatever direction the plans move in.

Do we lose the entertainment music venue space at the forum by converting it into new ice rinks, kind of looks like.

Some of these renovations don't look like they are needed, the 1920s part doesn't need to be cut up and placed with windows all around it, I sure to god hope they wound't use new bricks as part of some restoration project of it.

Why does the bingo hall need some upgraded retrofit
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  #9  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2014, 2:09 AM
xanaxanax xanaxanax is offline
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I agree about the Dartmouth sportsplex should be expanded on over building some new rinks in Shannon park. What a mess that area is, all of Wyse Rd is the worst looking planning and development street in Atlantic Canada, I think there needs to be a serious discussion on Wyse Rd some day on why one of the busiest area in HRM is one of the worst looking urban areas in the world
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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2014, 3:25 AM
Phalanx Phalanx is offline
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Originally Posted by xanaxanax View Post
Some of these renovations don't look like they are needed, the 1920s part doesn't need to be cut up and placed with windows all around it, I sure to god hope they wound't use new bricks as part of some restoration project of it.
That would just be restoring what was once there...

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  #11  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2014, 3:21 PM
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If the Forum could be (a) restored to something approximating its original look c/w arched windows and iconic signage, and (b) if the structure could be engineered to remove the support posts in the seating area, that would be great. But I fear it would be extremely costly to do that along with everything else it needs. Bringing an old structure like that up to today's standards is very expensive. But then again, we had $60 mil to waste on a designer library, so the sky seems to be the limit for HRM.

The Forum site is an interesting case in that it not only has the Forum itself but the Civic Arena as a second ice surface plus other multi-use spaces that are used for bingo, craft markets, etc. These were added piecemeal over the years and really need to be looked at in terms of upgrades and better integration.

DND has come to the table and is willing to help fund use of the Windsor Park site for a 4-pad, but I wonder if that necessarily means the Forum and its associated uses should go away. In the present scenario it does because HRM is saying that the sale of the property will offset the construction at Windsor Park. But I'm not sure trading the Forum site for another BMO Center that will be falling apart in 20 years is necessarily a good thing.

The Dartmouth situation is equally interesting. I do not think either Shannon Park or the alternative staff proposed of Commodore Drive in DC next to the sports fields are very good locations. The Sportsplex has plans for renovations ( http://www.dartmouthsportsplex.com/default.asp?mn=1.109 ) but they do not involve adding any ice surfaces, and in reality the existing building would have to be demolished and most of the lot taken over to add multiple surfaces there. But there is a lot of developable land in Dartmouth closer to population centers than either Shannon Park or DC, and I wonder why those options have not been better explored.

Last edited by Keith P.; Jun 2, 2014 at 11:38 PM.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2014, 4:40 PM
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I would like to see the Forum renovated from the inside where possible. If there is a proposal to move old seats and the scoreclock from the MC to the Forum, that seems like a good start. Maybe build a handful of luxury boxes and reduce seating capacity from the 4600 down closer to 3000-3500 and make the place more comfortable to be.

I'm not really a fan of the proposal to build rinks at Windsor Park, but I LOVE the proposal for 5940 South outlined in the report. This land is largely unused save for a couple of ugly buildings. Change the zoning if you have to. If the two universities are really committed to sharing sporting facilities, then there really is nowhere else to build and keep it convenient for students of both.
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  #13  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2014, 12:07 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by curnhalio View Post
I would like to see the Forum renovated from the inside where possible. If there is a proposal to move old seats and the scoreclock from the MC to the Forum, that seems like a good start. Maybe build a handful of luxury boxes and reduce seating capacity from the 4600 down closer to 3000-3500 and make the place more comfortable to be.

I'm not really a fan of the proposal to build rinks at Windsor Park, but I LOVE the proposal for 5940 South outlined in the report. This land is largely unused save for a couple of ugly buildings. Change the zoning if you have to. If the two universities are really committed to sharing sporting facilities, then there really is nowhere else to build and keep it convenient for students of both.
Maybe a good solution would be to cut the budget on the Halifax Forum renovation by not adding an additional ice-pad at the Forum complex (2 ice-pads seems to be plenty) and then build the two rinks in the South-end with the cost shared by SMU, Dalhousie and HRM. Then all 4 replacement ice-pads wouldn't be centralized at CFB Windsor Park.
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Old Posted Jun 4, 2014, 1:42 AM
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The Dartmouth situation is equally interesting. I do not think either Shannon Park or the alternative staff proposed of Commodore Drive in DC next to the sports fields are very good locations. The Sportsplex has plans for renovations ( http://www.dartmouthsportsplex.com/default.asp?mn=1.109 ) but they do not involve adding any ice surfaces, and in reality the existing building would have to be demolished and most of the lot taken over to add multiple surfaces there. But there is a lot of developable land in Dartmouth closer to population centers than either Shannon Park or DC, and I wonder why those options have not been better explored.
Well said. I have just been digging into this today and I have some of the same reservations. Shannon Park could work out well if the new rink is part of a bigger redevelopment plan, but I really don't like Commodore Drive's ranking as #2. It seems that when it comes to Dartmouth, staff always want to stash stuff in Burnside and Dartmouth Crossing. In our failed FIFA bid, they wanted to use Commodore Drive then to. Facilities like this really need to go in the community, not off in an industrial park. The report gives the full listing of sites considered in the schedule and the one I like for Dartmouth is Maybank Field at the corner of Woodland and Mic Mac Boulevard. That spot is centrally located, its well connected to the highways, has great transit access and is near where people actually live. Apparently there might be some geo-technical challenges as the property has been filled, but that's not going to be something that's insurmountable. We would need to relocate a ball diamond, but surely that's doable.

I also have some concerns about losing the Gray Arena in North Dartmouth. I would like to know more about how that facility is used. Is it a draw for kids in the neighbourhood or is it an ice surface that's mainly being used on a regional level? What are their numbers? If it's the former and its serving a real need in the neighbourhood, I think we have to think long and hard about whether it should be closed. The area around Highfield and Pinecrest has challenges and taking away a recreational facility that gives kids there something constructive to do could make things worse. There's a real social dynamic here to consider.
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Old Posted Jun 4, 2014, 1:13 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Here are a couple renderings of a proposed renovation of the Halifax Forum complex, which would include an exterior and interior renovation of the Halifax Forum, an additional arena and additional public space (source: http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/SCcp...1schedules.pdf). The proposal was submitted to HRM by the Halifax Forum Community Association. The same document also shows a 2-pad proposed by Dalhousie/St Mary's universities in the South-end (adjacent to Gorsebrook Park), and a 4-pad by CFB Halifax for Windsor Park. HRM Council will have to decide which is best for the community.







Although my opinion isn't important since I am no longer a Halifax resident, I would hate to see the Halifax Forum demolished. In another 13 years it will be 100 years old and it is one of the few remaining large arenas in North America from the 1920's or earlier.
I would love to see the Forum restored/renovated as such.
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Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 12:28 AM
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Well this is coming to Council tomorrow and I feel that, on the Dartmouth side, we're making a mistake with the Commodore Drive location. Maybank Field would be a much better fit. Wrote a piece on the issue for Spacing.

http://spacing.ca/atlantic/2014/07/2...ena-dartmouth/
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  #17  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 4:59 AM
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Very well put. I concur that Maybank is a far better location for this rink. I love the idea of putting the soccer field on top of the roof. What better way to have a "green" roof? Unfortunately, city staff have relatively little vision beyond $$$'s, and council has even less.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 12:45 PM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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The forum complex should be demolished asap. All the talk about it being such a great place for community events is BS.
I used to participate in trade shows there but had to stop because of the poor conditions in the building. Many shows had little to no heat in the middle of February. Or they were sweltering in August. We got nothing but excuses from the powers that be.
There were many of us vendors who could not repeat the show because of these issues.
Additionally there were no loading or very poor loading facilities.
It is a total embarrassment for the city to host out of town guests in such a run down, poorly maintained, inadequate location.
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Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax View Post
The forum complex should be demolished asap. All the talk about it being such a great place for community events is BS.
I used to participate in trade shows there but had to stop because of the poor conditions in the building. Many shows had little to no heat in the middle of February. Or they were sweltering in August. We got nothing but excuses from the powers that be.
There were many of us vendors who could not repeat the show because of these issues.
Additionally there were no loading or very poor loading facilities.
It is a total embarrassment for the city to host out of town guests in such a run down, poorly maintained, inadequate location.
And I would agree, IF there was a solid plan in place to replace it. Four ice sheets does nothing to replace the community centres and 4,000+ seat arena. I think the Forum should be saved. Didn't they redo the outside of it just a couple years ago? The interior can be renovated to offer more in the way of climate control.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 1:54 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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It is a total embarrassment for the city to host out of town guests in such a run down, poorly maintained, inadequate location.
Then they should fix it. I'm goddamn sick and tired of hearing city staffers and ostensible city boosters whining that the only solution for historic buildings have been poorly maintained is demolition. It's such Mickey Mouse city building. Small-time, small-minded, small-town thinking.
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