PHILADELPHIA | Schuylkill Yards Future Phases | 1,095 - 375 FT | 70 - 28 FLOORS

[donoteat]

I have seen with mine own two eyes today a SHoP rendering showing a tall building on the site of Cira II, along with the rest of Schuylkill Yards.

It may not happen because it seems like they're trying to keep the area around 30th Street Station as green as possible. Might have more details later in the weekend or Monday.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by donoteat

I have seen with mine own two eyes today a SHoP rendering showing a tall building on the site of Cira II, along with the rest of Schuylkill Yards.

It may not happen because it seems like they're trying to keep the area around 30th Street Station as green as possible. Might have more details later in the weekend or Monday.

Keep in mind that Brandywine wouldn't have ever proposed Cira II if they didn't have development rights over that little chunk of exposed trackwork next to the station.

The PDFs I have on hand indicate that the final plan is for the plaza around the station to be ~100k sf and that's without the Schuylkill Yards plaza across the street.

It's gonna be a beautiful area when everything's all said and done.

If the plan is to provide a fully underground connection between the main station and the el stop, though, I think it would be a good idea to put the west headhouse in the corner of the Bulletin building (i.e. 3001 Market).

[gttx]

Originally Posted by donoteat

I have seen with mine own two eyes today a SHoP rendering showing a tall building on the site of Cira II, along with the rest of Schuylkill Yards.

It may not happen because it seems like they're trying to keep the area around 30th Street Station as green as possible. Might have more details later in the weekend or Monday.

The only reason Cira II wasn't shown in the "Schuylkill Yards" renderings is that the site at 30th and JFK - which Amtrak calls the "black hole" - was not included in SHoP's study boundary.

At one point, Brandywine was in negotiations with Amtrak for the development rights to this parcel, but they do not own the site - Amtrak does (the area below is the tracks which connect the Penn Coach Yard south to the NEC, as well as a service road connecting into the yards). Until they are back at the table, nothing is going to happen here.

That said, the long-term plan is still to have a tower on that site. It just isn't part of Brandywine and Drexel's partnership, and it depends entirely on Amtrak reaching some agreement with Brandywine.

[summersm343]

I know 100% that there will be Cira II on some type of building built eventually on this plot. I know someone who works for Brandywine and they're pretty serious about it eventually happening, and said we could hear further plans on it in 2016 (this was last year I spoke with him).

[SJPhillyBoy]

Fantastic job by Eigenwelt!

Originally Posted by Eigenwelt

Riverwalk is also in this image I snagged from the SOM website. The rough build out over the rail yards is fairly similar in both images. Also if you look closely, the ghost massings on the right are in the right places and the right approximate heights for the 725' version of Cira 2 and the Schuylkill Yards towers.

Originally Posted by Eigenwelt

Schuylkill Yards with Cira 2 photoshopped in. I used a photo of the actual architectural model so the massing and height should be pretty accurate. I am also working on a wider version of this image that would include other proposals for the area.



CITC came out a little wonky, and because of the differing angles the rail yard is a bit squashed/fore-shortened. In reality the capping should extend all the way back to the Spring Garden bridge, so it will actually be more impressive when built.

[williamphilapa]

Love everything about the varied designs and the layout. I especially love the "gold" glass on many of the buildings. So tired of the dreary mirrorish silver. On overcast days silver glass almost appears invisible sometimes.

#loveschuylkillyards!

[chris08876]

I like the prospects of a major skyscraper node for the neighborhood. Having two clusters across the river. It will be nice from an aesthetic standpoint having skyscrapers line the Schuykill. University City as an extension of Center City. Hopefully it will set the precedence for some nice infill in Powelton Village.

[apetrella802]

Originally Posted by chris08876

I like the prospects of a major skyscraper node for the neighborhood. Having two clusters across the river. It will be nice from an aesthetic standpoint having skyscrapers line the Schuykill. University City as an extension of Center City. Hopefully it will set the precedence for some nice infill in Powelton Village.

More than 40 years ago Edmund Bacon talked about the potential of this area as a new center of Philadelphia. He based his reasoning on the fact that it could draw new business as a center of what was called in a 1950s book "megalopolis". i.e., the continues dense aggregation of large urban centers stretching from Boston to Washington DC all linked by rail and Rt 95.For sure in the 1960s it did take a man of vision to image what is now happening there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalopolis_(city_type)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalopolis_(city_type)


In his later life he did become something of a curmudgeon

[SJPhillyBoy]

Photo courtesy: Love at first Snap Photography http://loveatfirstsnap.org

[philatonian]

Originally Posted by apetrella802

More than 40 years ago Edmund Bacon talked about the potential of this area as a new center of Philadelphia. He based his reasoning on the fact that it could draw new business as a center of what was called in a 1950s book "megalopolis". i.e., the continues dense aggregation of large urban centers stretching from Boston to Washington DC all linked by rail and Rt 95.For sure in the 1960s it did take a man of vision to image what is now happening there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalopolis_(city_type)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalopolis_(city_type)


In his later life he did become something of a curmudgeon

There were some wild renderings for this area even before Bacon. As grand as Broad Street Station was, it's use as a terminal instead of a true station didn't do it any favors in a future where so many cities were interact the way they do now. It seems like city planners knew this as early as the 1920s, and it was likely one of the main reasons they moved the station atop the northeast corridor's tracks.

If the city hadn't gone into such a decline after the Depression, this area would probably already be "Center City." Cira Centre was really the thumbs-up to finally move forward with a 100 year old idea, and just ten years later University City has a skyline that looks like a city.

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by SJPhillyBoy

Fantastic job by Eigenwelt!

I was riding my bike past this area today and it occurred to me that Schuykill Yards is the biggest argument against the capping of the rail yards. If there is enough room for 8 towers that will take 20 years to build...capping the rails just doesn't make any sense when you realize how much space Philly has to grow.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

I was riding my bike past this area today and it occurred to me that Schuykill Yards is the biggest argument against the capping of the rail yards. If there is enough room for 8 towers that will take 20 years to build...capping the rails just doesn't make any sense when you realize how much space Philly has to grow.

Meh...I'm not sure how this is an argument "against" development over the rail yards. It just means that this 8 MSF will be the first phase of a much larger development. Actually, I'd say that Drexel's bit of Schuylkill Yards (let's assume the whole yards redevelopment eventually takes this name too) is really a prerequisite for development in the rail yards. With the full thing built out, value (read: rents) in the district will be much higher than it is today. Which is necessary if you're going to invest in buildings over railroad tracks.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by gttx

Meh...I'm not sure how this is an argument "against" development over the rail yards. It just means that this 8 MSF will be the first phase of a much larger development. Actually, I'd say that Drexel's bit of Schuylkill Yards (let's assume the whole yards redevelopment eventually takes this name too) is really a prerequisite for development in the rail yards. With the full thing built out, value (read: rents) in the district will be much higher than it is today. Which is necessary if you're going to invest in buildings over railroad tracks.

Agree. The railyards are ugly and should be capped eventually to take this city into the 21st century. It's just a matter of it being economically viable. This development will help usher that economic viability in and needs to happen first.

[Philly-Drew]

This project looks awesome, I must admit. One thing to keep in mind though is with a 20 year project, absolutely anything can happen. Anywhere from nothing actually getting done, to exactly these renderings getting built.

20 years goes through multiple real estate market conditions, multiple bear/bull markets, multiple highs/lows etc.

I just don't see this getting built as shown. The best bet for that, IMHO, is if the supertall is constructed first, and the project works backwards from tallest to shortest.

I'm not a "Negative Nancy", but I am having a hard time getting behind this project as shown.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

I was riding my bike past this area today and it occurred to me that Schuykill Yards is the biggest argument against the capping of the rail yards. If there is enough room for 8 towers that will take 20 years to build...capping the rails just doesn't make any sense when you realize how much space Philly has to grow.

Not really. It's a progression of which space is most economical to develop:

SY > filled SY makes maintenance yards economical to develop > filled maintenance yards makes the Penn Coach Yards economical to develop > filled maintenance + Penn Coach yards makes Powelton Yards (i.e. stuff that Philly District 30 doesn't show developed on the renders but if you talk to staff you quickly find out they want to keep development potential open) economical to develop.

More occupied space creates greater demand for locating in the area, which in turn drives up land prices, making increasingly difficult development parcels (i.e. more and more difficult overbuilding) feasible. This is the long-term future of the yards.

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Not really. It's a progression of which space is most economical to develop:

SY > filled SY makes maintenance yards economical to develop > filled maintenance yards makes the Penn Coach Yards economical to develop > filled maintenance + Penn Coach yards makes Powelton Yards (i.e. stuff that Philly District 30 doesn't show developed on the renders but if you talk to staff you quickly find out they want to keep development potential open) economical to develop.

More occupied space creates greater demand for locating in the area, which in turn drives up land prices, making increasingly difficult development parcels (i.e. more and more difficult overbuilding) feasible. This is the long-term future of the yards.

These things certainly feed off of one another, but I suppose my view is that the SY's features a lot of open space around 30th street station...a lot of buildable land that doesn't require the incredibly expensive capping process. And if their most eager prediction is to take 20 years to build the entire thing out, we have at least 20 years (most likely much more) until the "cheaper land" is occupied and forces the expensive capping process if there is a desire/need to expand after everything else is built.

When you see these two plans...it just seems to me as an argument to never cap if we have enough room for 8 skyscrapers right next door that doesn't require so much capital.

So perhaps a better statement is that SY is an argument against capping the rail yards in today's economic climate...and realistically, in my view...not until the next several decades. If it will take 20 years to make SY viable...that's probably 30 years if you want to be realistic. Then, for a similar density of buildings that would go above the cap, that would need another 20-30 years for it to be economically viable....ie....capping is likely not to be a viable project until 2056 or 2086....ie... in a future Philadelphia that likely doesn't resemble anything of today.

Regardless, we must all agree that capping isn't realistically going to happen until all buildable land in close proximity is build upon.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

Regardless, we must all agree that capping isn't realistically going to happen until all buildable land in close proximity is build upon.

Yes. In fact, the district plan that includes the yards (ongoing, but partially public) says exactly that.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

Regardless, we must all agree that capping isn't realistically going to happen until all buildable land in close proximity is build upon.

That's been my view, all things being equal. Sometimes all things are not equal. There may be factors that push an earlier start to developing the actual rail yards (despite apparently higher development costs compared to the huge amount of surrounding "fallow" land). Amtrak is not Drexel and can make its own deals, after all.

[Kidphilly]

Not sure if anyone posted these but thee came in an email reminder for the Open House for the rail yards (capping) open house this Wed.

Updated plan summery
http://static1.squarespace.com/stati....03_PUBLIC.pdf


Summary of initial feedback
http://static1.squarespace.com/stati...inal_Small.pdf

[Downburst]

^I'm (unfortunately) very unfamiliar with Philadelphia. Where is Schuylkill Yards in relation to those plans?