Is Canadian identity getting stronger or weaker among the younger generation?

[Capsicum]

Do you think Canadian pride is actually getting stronger among the younger generations, compared to past generations?

I feel like millenials and kids younger still, these days, at least outwardly, seem more likely to display icons of Canadian pride. And as mentioned by many people on this forum, even though many Canadians still feel close to the US region immediately across the border from themselves (eg. Seattle and Vancouver), a cross-Canada consciousness (at least Anglo-Canada) is starting to develop where a British Columbian and Nova Scotian may be far apart but still espouse a sense of being Canadian. Even among immigrants, the tendency to pick up a Canadian identity seems to happen quickly among their kids, if not the adult immigrants.

[kwoldtimer]

No change that I've noticed. I suspect that knowledge of Canadian history and geography is in decline.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No change that I've noticed. I suspect that knowledge of Canadian history and geography is in decline.

On the whole, there probably is an increasing sense of Canadian identity mostly because there are fewer and fewer cross border ties with the USA as times move on. In the 1950s & 60s, there was still a sense of brotherhood with the States because of the war effort, and most Canadians also had numerous cousins in the USA from migration south of the border to feed the mills and plants down there. The family relationships to the USA have mostly died off, and the USA has become increasingly politically dissimilar to Canada. I think most Canadians no longer view themselves as the little brothers in this relationship.

At the same time though, I agree with kwoldtimer that fewer and fewer Canadians understand Canadian history and geography.

As a result, while Canadians feel more "Canadian" about themselves, they paradoxically have less understanding of what it means to be a Canadian.......

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

On the whole, there probably is an increasing sense of Canadian identity mostly because there are fewer and fewer cross border ties with the USA as times move on. In the 1950s & 60s, there was still a sense of brotherhood with the States because of the war effort, and most Canadians also had numerous cousins in the USA from migration south of the border to feed the mills and plants down there. The family relationships to the USA have mostly died off, and the USA has become increasingly politically dissimilar to Canada. I think most Canadians no longer view themselves as the little brothers in this relationship.

At the same time though, I agree with kwoldtimer that fewer and fewer Canadians understand Canadian history and geography.

As a result, while Canadians feel more "Canadian" about themselves, they paradoxically have less understanding of what it means to be a Canadian.......

Also, a lot of Canadian things that we like to at least superficially display or talk about that distinguish us from the States are 1960s or post 1960s (eg. the Canadian flag, and the fact that Canada is more "left-wing" than the US is more salient in the post-Vietnam war era), so young people are more likely to know a Canada that stands alone in its identity because they're too young to remember when Canada was "British" oriented but young enough to see Canada drifting apart from the US in identity through most of their lifetime.

[Docere]

I agree. The Canadian critique of America before the 1960s was that from the right, a sort of "Tory" critique (America is too populist, too egalitarian etc.) and Canadian liberals and leftists were often the most pro-American (i.e. a democratic leftist ideology critiquing the imperial connection and traditional institutions).

[isaidso]

Much much stronger.... and it's well beyond all those tired cliches.

[SpongeG]

It seems stronger amongst all the 20 somethings I work with, not at the same level as American levels of USA USA USA but moreso than my generation. (gen X)

[Capsicum]

It seems like Canadian and American levels of outward displays of patriotism are converging in terms of how things are trending.

Canadian millenials are more likely to have a strong, confident sense of Canadian identity that's less subdued than in the past. They also seem to have a sense that Canadian cities and places can hold their own now compared to the US (eg. make claims that Toronto is as diverse or more diverse than New York or LA, the rising city of the Great Lakes region, now that many other cities have become part of the Rust Belt), and almost buy into a kind of Canadian exceptionalism (eg. that Canadian multiculturalism, healthcare, or other kinds of policies are something other countries should learn from).

American millenials actually seem less overtly proud in the "USA number one!" kind of way and less likely to see American exceptionalism as much of a thing (eg. look at the young people who for instance supported Bernie Sanders and accept that the US has stuff to learn from other nations, for example health care, gun control etc., while past generations much have thought that the US is a world leader and its others who'd learn from it, not the other way around).

[Capsicum]

Another thing that is really striking is how quickly new immigrants at least outwardly or symbolically pick up this Canadian identity.

I often see that naturalized citizens or residents who've only been in Canada 5, 10, or 15 years already seem kind of proud to be Canadian (eg. flying the Canadian flag, even if alongside their old country's flag), celebrate Canada Day, have barbecues, have their kids play hockey etc.. It seems like in the US, people have to wait a little longer before the immigrant first generation or two gets as much into the whole Fourth of July, apple pie and baseball thing (usually it's the first generation who's American born that picks up the American identity, not the individuals who immigrated as adults).

[kool maudit]

Stronger but stranger and more negative in its founding principles. It is mainly consists of ressentiment towards the US (and Quebec when it "acts up") resting on a social democratic policy-stack borrowed from northern Europe.

Canada has a Britain-shaped hole in its historical self-conception. Couldn't be helped, given all that has happened.

Britain has the same thing, ironically.

[Abii]

I feel like the older generation looks to the US a lot more than mine. I look at the US and I either laugh or feel disgust. Sometimes both. I'm an immigrant btw. It took me roughly 13 years before I was ready to call myself Canadian. I keep going back and forth with it though. If I'm around conservative white people for a while, especially if they're older, I tend to lose my sense of belonging. I just don't understand North American white conservatives and in the back of my mind I know they're looking at me with disdain as well, so I just stop caring.

I often get a sense that a lot of older Canadians wouldn't be too of place in a place like Alabama or Texas. Maybe it's because I spent some time in Alberta and it's just an Alberta thing. Not sure.

[SignalHillHiker]

Both.

If you visited Newfoundland in 1957 and 2017 and quietly observed people, the people today would far more closely resemble their mainland peers - linguistically, culturally, etc. But if you conducted interviews with people in 1957 and 2017, you'd probably find the conscious, political rejection of a Canadian identity is even stronger.

Take Mary Walsh, for example.

I was born in 1952, and at least in St. John’s and environs, anti-confederation feelings ran high. There was no end to complaining about the shoddiness of Canadian goods, the dour and cheap nature of the Canadian heart.

...

I didn’t even really run into a Canadian until about grade five, when Janet, a girl from Toronto, came into our class. I don’t remember meeting or seeing any other Canadians. There were Portuguese, Spaniards, Russians, Poles, Americans off the ship, and you’d see them down on Water Street. But in school, except for Janet, it was just basically us.

...

Then, touring the country as a Newfoundland comedy troupe in the ’70s, it was hard for us to understand Canada’s ongoing struggle to forge an identity, to find out who they were. Because we always knew who Canadians were.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...hings-canadian

Mary Walsh explains it perfectly - two nations, neither of which knew the other as well as they each knew the United States and United Kingdom, were getting to know each other. Half of Newfoundland was excited about it, half resented it.

Today, that's obviously not the case at all. We're very well acquainted. So the division is less matter of fact, objective reality and more conscious, political choice.

Take Drew Brown, for example...

Personally I have always found it difficult to celebrate "Canada Day." Newfoundland and Labrador's shotgun marriage with the rest of Confederation only turned 68 back on April Fool's Day, and many of us will spend half of #Canada150 in mourning.

...

Check any opinion survey: Canadians are most proud of the Charter (which is at its heart an American import) and the healthcare system (which is among the worst socialized medicine schemes on Earth and only comes off well when compared to the American Thunderdome). Sometimes people endorse multiculturalism (pay no attention to the racism behind the curtain!) and the rest is empty trivia like hockey, regional food eccentricities, and Tim Horton's. Small wonder that all the heavy lifting in Canadian nationalism for the last 30 years has been done by corporate brands; marketing is the science of building emotional attachment to something ultimately meaningless, which makes it well suited for a country of amnesiacs.

...

Canada is not my nation, but it is my country. I like it well enough, and I take Confederation seriously. Beneath the rotting floorboards of a century and a half of crooked carpentry I really believe there is a moral foundation worth recovering. Federalism, the political arrangement whereby different groups of people could live and work together in common while still holding autonomy over their own affairs, is as far as I can tell one of the better political ideas yet devised—even if its application has so far been dicey.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/w...-not-there-yet

That article is full of Canadian references that I don't know, he's even more intimately knowledgeable about the mainland than I am. He's clearly a federalist, something I am not, and on paper we should have wildly divergent views of whether there is a Canadian identity and how it would best be described. But, on that, we're in complete agreement - and that seems to be the growing norm among youth here who actually think about it.

So, overall, both. We're all more alike than we were in the past, but the entrenched divisions within Canada (whether it's Quebec, or Newfoundland, or the West) are getting stronger.

I could move to Guelph tomorrow and, through conscious effort, fully pass as a mainland Canadian - alter my accent and expressions, use only Southern Ontario/Canadian references, etc. There's no question I could fool everyone I meet. My parents can't do that even if they wanted to do. So it's been a big change over the years.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Also, a lot of Canadian things that we like to at least superficially display or talk about that distinguish us from the States are 1960s or post 1960s (eg. the Canadian flag, and the fact that Canada is more "left-wing" than the US is more salient in the post-Vietnam war era), so young people are more likely to know a Canada that stands alone in its identity because they're too young to remember when Canada was "British" oriented but young enough to see Canada drifting apart from the US in identity through most of their lifetime.

THIS.

There's a stronger sense of Canadian identity and pride now, but contemporary Canadian identity. There is less identification with historical Canadian tropes (Europe-light or USA-lite).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

THIS.

There's a stronger sense of Canadian identity and pride now, but contemporary Canadian identity. .

I'd be interested in knowing more about some of the pillars of this contemporary Canadian identity.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

There is less identification with historical Canadian tropes (Europe-light or USA-lite).

I think some of that USA-lite at least is most certainly still there, even though Canadians today have less of a hang-up about it. Or at least have altered their relationship to it.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think some of that USA-lite at least is most certainly still there, even though Canadians today have less of a hang-up about it. Or at least have altered their relationship to it.

There are fewer reasons to be envious than in the past, istm. That hang-up always had a tinge of green.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

There are fewer reasons to be envious than in the past, istm. That hang-up always had a tinge of green.

I'd say the U.S. has always had a best of times, worst of times side to it for Canadians.

For your generation, this was one of the most lasting images of the U.S., wasn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2_VX2nymRs

For my generation, there was stuff like Fort Apache The Bronx:



But through it all, the U.S. has always had plenty of this, which probably explains why it always retains its allure despite its many serious flaws:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WYYlRArn3g

[lio45]

In my observation it's getting significantly weaker in the new generation. I suppose it varies depending on context. If you're an old Anglo who lives in a Richmond, BC neighborhood that nowadays functions unilingually in Mandarin, you might not answer the question the same way as someone the same age from Newfoundland, which wasn't even Canadian a few generations ago.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

American millenials actually seem less overtly proud in the "USA number one!" kind of way and less likely to see American exceptionalism as much of a thing (eg. look at the young people who for instance supported Bernie Sanders and accept that the US has stuff to learn from other nations, for example health care, gun control etc., while past generations much have thought that the US is a world leader and its others who'd learn from it, not the other way around).

I noticed a distinct change in attitudes among many Americans starting with the W Bush presidency. They weren't as cocky about the U.S. being the uncontested "best" anymore.

This continued through the Obama years where the U.S. actually took on more of a "nice guy" image worldwide.

And now under Trump the U.S. comes across as being angry and defensive and has the knee-jerk behaviour of those who are insecure but won't admit it. And of course a large segment of the population down there is seriously depressed about the country like they were during the W Bush years.

Things have evolved with many twists and turns but it's certainly been a while since Americans have had a "big man on campus" style spring in their step.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

In my observation it's getting significantly weaker in the new generation. I suppose it varies depending on context. If you're an old Anglo who lives in a Richmond, BC neighborhood that nowadays functions unilingually in Mandarin, you might not answer the question the same way as someone the same age from Newfoundland, which wasn't even Canadian a few generations ago.

Outside Quebec at least, I'd say the sentiment is getting stronger. Paradoxically, this is occurring as people are perhaps less culturally/uniquely Canadian than ever before.

So it's a bit of a house of cards or a castle in the sky IMO.

This isn't unique to Canada of course. In much of the world people are less uniquely "of their nationality" these days and more globalized/americanized.

It's just more acute or obvious in Canada due to having an elusive national identity and culture to begin with.