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  #2061  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 4:07 PM
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The 251 The 251 is offline
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Post Interesting news..

Today in Capitol Hill, Senators Richard Shelby and Jeff Sessions and Representative Jo Bonner criticize efforts by Boeing's backers in Congress who are mischaracterizing Northrop Grumman's Air Force contract to build America's next generation of aerial refueling tankers.

Shelby, Sessions and Bonner write "several congressional members have attempted to overturn this decision by waging a public relations campaign based on misinformation and rhetoric. We find this approach both unfortunate and a disservice to our men and women in uniform."

The lawmakers note that the Air Force, "in a full and open competition, determined that the KC-45 was superior to the KC-767 in four of the five categories considered. The KC-45 is newer, larger and can carry more fuel, pallets and troops. Its technology is more advanced, 15 years newer, and it is more versatile and capable than the KC-767. The United Kingdom, Australia, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates also selected the newer, more capable tanker over the KC-767 in the past four international tanker competitions, leaving no doubt about (which is) the best."

After pointing out that members of Congress have threatened to kill the contract even if Boeing's protest to the Government Accountability Office is rejected, the lawmakers ask why their colleagues didn't raise concerns about the contract during the bidding process.

And while the lawmakers also have claimed that the Air Force did not take into account issues like jobs when considering the contract – even though the deal will support 48,000 American jobs, with work for 230 suppliers in 49 states – they point out that "in short, the Air Force did exactly as it was instructed to do by Congress, to include Boeing's congressional supporters, who raised no concerns at the time."

They also note problems posed by the protectionist stance raised by Boeing's backers. "We also agree with Defense Secretary Robert Gates that changing the law now based on protectionist sentiment should be approached with caution," the lawmakers write. "The global environment in which we live makes it virtually impossible for any major military product to be 100 percent American-made - especially when we're seeking the best. Moreover, U.S. firms supply billions of dollars worth of American-made equipment to foreign countries."

"Our colleagues clearly are not considering the very real and significant threat of economic retaliation posed if we develop a newly protectionist sentiment," the lawmakers write. "And certainly, we should not retroactively apply these potential new laws to defense procurements that have already been decided."

"We also need to remember the consequences of our colleagues' argument that they would rather have the Air Force procure a more expensive, antiquated plane that clearly does not meet the needs of our armed forces nearly as well as the KC-45, simply because the winning tanker does not meet their definition of American-made," they add. "As a reminder, Mobile, Ala., where the KC-45 will be assembled, is in America."

"Just because you do not like the outcome does not mean the rules should be changed when the game is over," the lawmakers warn.
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  #2062  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 11:53 PM
sandebr00 sandebr00 is offline
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Does anyone have a rendering of what the Neisner building downtown will look like once Hargrove and Associates completes the renovations to it? I haven't been able to find any drawnings.
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  #2063  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 2:07 PM
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Breaking tanker news this morning...

As followers of the ongoing tanker protest before the Government
Accountability Office know, the filings in that protest have been
voluminous. Many documents filed some time ago have not been available for
public consumption because they, first, had to be redacted to remove
commercially sensitive material.

Now, that redaction is nearing completion and perhaps one of the most
important documents to go public was an April 25, 2008 filing by Northrop
Grumman that, in several hundred pages, outlines the companies point of
view regarding the specious nature of Boeing's complaint.

The first three pages of that document provide a good overview of the
Northrop Grumman argument and we reproduce them here:

Northrop Grumman's comments on the just released agency report
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  #2064  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 5:32 PM
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SouthSky SouthSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandebr00 View Post
Does anyone have a rendering of what the Neisner building downtown will look like once Hargrove and Associates completes the renovations to it? I haven't been able to find any drawnings.
I looked all yesterday and found nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The 251 View Post
As followers of the ongoing tanker protest before the Government
Accountability Office know, the filings in that protest have been
voluminous. Many documents filed some time ago have not been available for
public consumption because they, first, had to be redacted to remove
commercially sensitive material.

Now, that redaction is nearing completion and perhaps one of the most
important documents to go public was an April 25, 2008 filing by Northrop
Grumman that, in several hundred pages, outlines the companies point of
view regarding the specious nature of Boeing's complaint.

The first three pages of that document provide a good overview of the
Northrop Grumman argument and we reproduce them here:

Northrop Grumman's comments on the just released agency report
Thanks for the link! That was an interesting read.
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  #2065  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 5:53 PM
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SouthSky SouthSky is offline
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This is an Opinion Special to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer about the Tanker Contract. Seriously, how does this guy make the jump from investigations in credit fraud to investigations in companies? It seems that the guy believes the legal system is unable to legislate a clean slate when it comes to industry. What about all the car plants and other industries throughout Alabama? Are they suffering from this? Probably not. What about Boeing's existing operations?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinio...ronline11.html

Last updated June 10, 2008 12:35 p.m. PT

Tanker contract will test Alabama legal infrastructure

KEN ALLARD

When Robert Gates fired the two top leaders of the Air Force last week, he not only reasserted civilian control over the armed forces but, inevitably, re-ignited that simmering debate about the new Air Force tanker. And maybe that is a good thing because sometimes an unblinking second look at the beginning can save a lot of pain later on.

As a career officer, I served in the Army, not the Air Force, and have never had any connections with Boeing or EADS, the parent of Airbus.

But while on active duty, I helped write the landmark procurement reforms ("reinventing government") that were a legitimate achievement of the early Clinton years. That landmark legislation leveled the playing field for multi-national firms like EADS to compete on what had been an exclusive "Buy American" defense preserve.

So when it was announced that EADS had been awarded the contract to build the new Air Force tanker, the resulting hullabaloo often seemed hypocritical. However, no one has subsequently raised a more legitimate but often overlooked question.

If Boeing Co. had won the tanker contract, most of the manufacturing work would have been done in the Seattle area. EADS proposes building the aircraft at a new plant in Mobile, Ala.

But are the supporting legal infrastructures in Seattle and Mobile roughly equal? Such concerns are vital, given the usual propensities for fraud and malfeasance in any 50-billion-dollar contract.

Having been enmeshed until recently in a desperate legal struggle of my own (one involving credit card fraud and identity theft) in lower Alabama, I was in no position to publicize the shortcomings of its justice system. But with that case concluded, I can now blow the whistle. Whether criminal or civil, local state or even federal, Alabama jurisprudence and law enforcement are ineffectual instruments, producing justice only as accidental outcomes.

The novels of Faulkner and Grisham, as well as movies like "My Cousin Vinny," have captured the essence of the southern courthouse culture. "Vinny" is actually something of an understatement, an unhappy fact I learned only after living in Alabama from 2004-2006. The underpinnings of that culture are reinforced by a highly decentralized structure. Small, under-paid and under-educated, law enforcement and judicial agencies are a latter-day confederacy of independent fiefdoms. 'Bama cops and judges simply see no reason to cooperate much with each other or anyone else, nor have they apparently done so since Reconstruction.

Don't get me wrong. Baldwin County, Ala., is pleasant enough, with crepe myrtles lining the streets and beauty contestants flaunting themselves in Scarlett O'Hara dresses. But I naively assumed that reporting the initial evidence of credit card fraud and identity theft would be enough to trigger a competent investigation. It was not. Despite several potential violations of federal law, the U.S. attorney in Mobile ceded jurisdiction to the local police, who promptly concluded that nothing criminal had taken place.
Clearing my name meant spending the next year pursuing a civil case, an expensive and deeply frustrating experience. Along the way: subpoenas went undelivered and process servers got lost, one even asking directions from the person who was being served. Worse yet, the judge didn't care whether witnesses showed up or if subpoenas, once delivered, had actually been complied with. Two of the banks involved in my case never appeared for trial yet were never fined a single dollar for contempt.

Despite warnings that this judge enjoyed a reputation for having "all the consistency of a two-iron shot in a shower stall," the civil case was eventually decided in my favor.

Proverbs says that "A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches." True enough but especially so when the judge never even bothered to enforce her own civil decrees. Four months later, and despite the damning new evidence presented during the trial, no criminal charges have been filed by any of the half-dozen local, state or federal agencies that exercise jurisdiction.

But please recall the main reason why I am telling you this: credit card fraud, a growing problem even before the recession, is an easy touchdown compared with the subtleties of defense procurement law. On a large contract, it is not unusual to run into multiple allegations of product substitution, defective parts, over-charging and even old-fashioned kickbacks. Proving or disproving such charges requires not only competent investigators but also the tightest possible teamwork from a well-integrated law enforcement team, both federal and local.

Sadly, those capabilities are nowhere in evidence in lower Alabama. Even more sadly, no one with oversight for the tanker decision seems to have noticed, much less asked what additional costs would be required to shore up an inefficient and badly antiquated legal infrastructure. Because if government contracting interests are potentially at risk, just think of all those unsuspecting aircraft workers eager to move to Alabama in search of new jobs.

So maybe Robert Gates did all of us a favor last week when he took such strong actions to reassert the need for more diligent performance by Air Force leaders. And maybe he recalled a lesson familiar to weekend carpenters: measure twice, cut once.

A former NBC News military analyst, Col. Ken Allard (U.S. Army Ret.) served as staff director for the DOD Procurement Reform Panel in the 1990s. He writes a weekly column for the San Antonio Express-News. E-mail: Warheads6@aol.com.
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  #2066  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 7:17 PM
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The 251 The 251 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthSky View Post
This is an Opinion Special to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer about the Tanker Contract. Seriously, how does this guy make the jump from investigations in credit fraud to investigations in companies? It seems that the guy believes the legal system is unable to legislate a clean slate when it comes to industry. What about all the car plants and other industries throughout Alabama? Are they suffering from this? Probably not. What about Boeing's existing operations?
They will make up any story imaginable as long as it exposes Alabama for having a weak infrastructure. I mean, come on... lie after lie after lie about how NG & EADS will be outsourcing jobs, Alabama workers are incapable of managing the contract... blah blah blah. When will it end? They are being sore losers imo.

I love it when FOXnews shows the Boeing employees actually crying because their grandparents made tankers and it's supposedly a family tradition... I laughed so hard because they are the ones who got complacent when designing and submitting the bid. They thought it would be no contest and business as usual. Prior contract history should not be, and (correct me if I'm wrong) is not a factor in determining the winning bid. I dont see what they are complaining about... they did it to themselves.
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  #2067  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 7:25 PM
elb401 elb401 is offline
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Seems like Ken Allard is just trying to link things together that have little to do with eachother. I wouldn't worry much about him. What do you expect from a guy that writes in a seattle news outlet. he is going to be bais about everything that has to do with Mobile. The people in Michigan act the same way everytime a car plant is announced in the south. They complain and make up crazy stuff.
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  #2068  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 9:00 PM
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CottonCity251 CottonCity251 is offline
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Check out this article from Thicket Magazine about the Bay City Boom, as they say.
Quote from David Bronner about RSA's investments in Mobile that he estimates around $500 million...
Quote:
“I think we’re progressing [with RSA’s investments in Mobile],” says Bronner. “We’re not where we want to be. We’ll get there. If you pull off the Airbus thing (the tanker deal, in addition to the commercial aircraft manufacturing that EADS has pledged would accompany the huge military contract), the whole city will never be the same. If Airbus does its thing there, you are basically sitting on the hottest city in the U.S.”
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  #2069  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 10:52 PM
Del Del is offline
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Ken Allard appears to live in San Antonio and write for the paper there. In a recent column, he outlines his fear of a cyberwar with Iran. We'll certainly need Boeing's American-built* tankers to deal with that kind of a menace!

*well, 80%, anyway

Edit: sorry, at the end of his "column" it says right there he writes for the SA paper.

And more edit: back in March he was defending the decision. "Despite the hubbub, there was little question about three things: The European aircraft was less expensive than the Boeing alternative; it was a hands-down better airplane; and the Air Force selection process had been conducted with scrupulous fairness." Maybe that was before his identity theft case wound its way through our benighted court system and he felt free to speak his mind.

Last edited by Del; Jun 11, 2008 at 11:05 PM.
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  #2070  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 11:42 PM
Muskavon Muskavon is offline
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Even if I accepted all the crap that is said about "The South" over the years, the real question is, "If true, how do you expect any of the "backwards" to change if you limit the possibility?"

Was Seattle a sophisticated Megopolis in the year 1536? No? So it GREW into that? Huhhhhh. What a concept. Maybe we could use that plan on the awful South people write so much about.
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  #2071  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 12:05 AM
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SouthSky SouthSky is offline
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A nice picture from the link provided by CottonCity:
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  #2072  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 1:19 AM
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That is now my favorite article of all time. I seriously almost cried
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  #2073  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 1:33 AM
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I seriously almost cried
Come June 19th you can!
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  #2074  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 7:42 AM
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Electrical Porpoise Electrical Porpoise is offline
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To be honest I wanted to read the story on Sister Schubert on page 46.

BTW, Chip Drago is a great guy and good writer. He does a nice job with the Mobile Bay Times.

Last edited by Electrical Porpoise; Jun 12, 2008 at 7:52 AM.
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  #2075  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 9:42 PM
Muskavon Muskavon is offline
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Since some folks in this thread have expressed interest in seeing the Amtrak line restarted (Sunset Limited), here is a link to a Panama City Rep supporting legislation to get it back:

http://www.inweekly.net/article.asp?artID=7979

Oh, and I wasn't able to make the economic meeting I mentioned last week. Here is the PNJ report of what was said regarding the tanker by a Northrop Exec:

http://www.pnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../1003/BUSINESS
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  #2076  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2008, 2:05 AM
Del Del is offline
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I took an Amtrak train to New Orleans one time only, back around 96 or 97 when they were running the "Gulf Coast Limited." I thought it would be a painless, pleasant way to take 2 small kids to visit family. And it was---at first. Then we got stuck behind a freight train and crossed half of Mississippi and eastern Louisiana at about twenty-five miles an hour. If memory serves it took about five hours to get to N.O. I was told that CSX owned the tracks and they saw absolutely no obligation to make anything easy for Amtrak or its passengers. If they are serious about Amtrak providing relief for "rising fuel costs," I hope this kind of issue is addressed.
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  #2077  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2008, 2:58 AM
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It would be great if they would start an Acela train service on the gulf coast possibly from Jacksonville to New Orleans. I know I would definately use it.
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  #2078  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2008, 11:40 AM
Muskavon Muskavon is offline
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I've suspected all along (and I believe I've said it here) that the tanker deal wouldn't be solved anytime soon regardless of June 19th. I didn't come with links this morning, but check it out for yourself as the "political" issues build up. If this plane isn't being built in Mobile before the elction in November (and it won't be) it will never be built by EADS.

I personally think it is time to start realizing forces at work are stronger than us peons can combat. We aren't gonna get the tanker (maybe a small piece as a concession). There are so many steps of the political nature for it to get here...It isn't going to happen. Go Boeing. Go Washington and Chicago and Kansas and whatever foreign countries (30%) it is farmed out to (without care).

When politicians start pointing to a $100,000 math problem in a $40 billion deal as a reason to kill a project (along with some Air Force leaders being canned for erroneous nuclear bomb episodes) it is over. The momentum is what it is. And Obama certainly isn't going to rule against the theoretical Chicago based "American Worker" Boeing in 12 months.

Time to start hoping for an auto plant Congress can't reject.

Sadly, our jets will continue to refuel with 1950's planes for years to come. But who cares. Boeing doesn't. Congress sure doesn't on several fronts. It'd be a good statistic for Congress if more jets fell out of the air in Iraq actually. Good for the election. More people dead. More proof we are stupid to be there.

Here are some links to defy my original statement:

http://tankerblog.blogspot.com/2008/...t-readied.html

all this is is Jack Murtha....only the House Defense Appropriations Chairman agreeing that Mobile sucks and Boeing is awesome.

Or this....

http://tankerblog.blogspot.com/2008/...nker-math.html

the aftermath of the math error.

I'm gonna hold my breath till 2016. If you see tanker jets being built in Mobile at that time....spray me with fuel and light a match. I'm comfortable I'll be alive. I think I see where this is going, unfortunately. Sad for us on the outside of Mobile who needed it so badly.

Last edited by Muskavon; Jun 13, 2008 at 12:09 PM.
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  #2079  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2008, 4:44 PM
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While I see your point in this post, and I agree with the majority of it, I think Mobile will still see a A330F plant regardless of the GAO/Congress/AF decision on who should get the military tanker contract. I've heard that a freighter/commercial airframe plant could be a certainty.
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