George Massey Tunnel Replacement | Proposed - Page 188

WarrenC12 · #**3741** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 4:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by libtard

A fee at all crossings won’t happen and never has. Can you imagine slapping a toll on the oak street bridge or the lions gate or the dinsmore. Those decrepit pieces of infrastructure will never get tolled. Only implementing a toll on brand new infrastructure makes sense. Nice try though

I think you need a history lesson. Try google.

libtard · #**3742** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 5:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I think you need a history lesson. Try google.

I’m aware the lions gate and oak street were tolled whennn *drum roll please* they were new! What a novel concept.

Migrant_Coconut · #**3743** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by libtard

I’m aware the lions gate and oak street were tolled whennn *drum roll please* they were new! What a novel concept.

The Golden Gate Bridge is two years older than the Lions Gate. It's been tolled ever since opening day, and now San Fran is considering additional congestion pricing on top of that.

libtard · #**3744** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 1:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The Golden Gate Bridge is two years older than the Lions Gate. It's been tolled ever since opening day, and now San Fran is considering additional congestion pricing on top of that.

What does that have to do with introducing a toll to all bridge crossings in metro Vancouver? They didn’t get rid of the toll on the Golden Gate Bridge for 8 decades and then reinstate it.I think we’re getting off topic here. Let’s focus on the new tunnel discussion and not silly pie in the sky ideas like distance tolling and tolling all crossings that will never happen

Dengler Avenue · #**3745** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 1:14 PM**

Can someone refresh my memory here: Will the replacement have bus lanes that are protected (i.e. physically barred) from the general-purpose lanes? If yes, I guess we don’t really need tolls. When people are stuck in traffic and see buses fly by them, they will learn to take buses the next time.

Metro-One · #**3746** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 1:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Can someone refresh my memory here: Will the replacement have bus lanes that are protected (i.e. physically barred) from the general-purpose lanes? If yes, I guess we don’t really need tolls. When people are stuck in traffic and see buses fly by them, they will learn to take buses the next time.

The bridge iteration had full median transit lanes with in-situ bus stops like a true rapid bus system.

The vague info so far released along with the renders for the new tunnel iteration depicts buses on the shoulder lanes... which is very concerning...

Dengler Avenue · #**3747** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 1:35 PM**

So we could have had something like a west-coast version of Samuel-de-Champlain Bridge, and NDP’s goofing around...?

Metro-One · #**3748** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 1:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

So we could have had something like a west-coast version of Samuel-de-Champlain Bridge, and NDP’s goofing around...?

Yes, we were already nearly a hundred million dollars into a new largest bridge in BC with a 30km long highway upgrade (with rebuilt interchanges) that included a full fledged rapid bus component involving dedicated centre lanes, bus stations, and bus only ramps when it was pulled.

Now we have a tunnel with watered down transit component, possibly minimal or no highway upgrades outside of the immediate tunnel area, and even potentially retaining the antiquated existing interchange structures and layouts such as at Steveston...

Oh and at least 5 years extra delay.

s211 · #**3749** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 3:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

When people are stuck in traffic and see buses fly by them, they will learn to take buses the next time.

You just made my Monday.

GreaterMontréal · #**3750** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 5:05 PM**

Quote:

Yes, we were already nearly a hundred million dollars into a new largest bridge in BC with a 30km long highway upgrade (with rebuilt interchanges) that included a full fledged rapid bus component involving dedicated centre lanes, bus stations, and bus only ramps when it was pulled.

One of the most important component of the Samuel-de-Champlain bridge project is not the bridge itself, but the highway upgrades and modifications made on the Turcot interchange and on the A-15. Without the modernisation of the A-15 between Décarie and Samuel-de-Champlain, the bridge would not reach its full potential. We're talking about a 5km stretch of highway.

To me, the 30km highway upgrade and the rebuilt interchanges would have been the key part of the project.

Migrant_Coconut · #**3751** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by libtard

What does that have to do with introducing a toll to all bridge crossings in metro Vancouver? They didn’t get rid of the toll on the Golden Gate Bridge for 8 decades and then reinstate it.

Congestion pricing is based on - wait for it - congestion. The age of a crossing has nothing to do with whether or not it gets tolled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

If yes, I guess we don’t really need tolls. When people are stuck in traffic and see buses fly by them, they will learn to take buses the next time.

Depends on how useful that bus is. It won't be much help at all to out-of-towners (ferry traffic, border traffic) or to tradespeople.

CanSpice · #**3752** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Depends on how useful that bus is. It won't be much help at all to out-of-towners (ferry traffic, border traffic) or to tradespeople.

Great. And for the 90% of the other people sitting in single-occupant vehicles creating the traffic they can probably take a bus. I don't understand this "BUT BUT BUT TRADESPEOPLE" argument used against congestion pricing, improving transit, and so on. Yes, tradespeople can't use the bus, we get it. But by moving people who actually can use the bus onto the bus we free up space for those tradespeople to get around quicker!

p78hub · #**3753** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Now we have a tunnel with watered down transit component, possibly minimal or no highway upgrades outside of the immediate tunnel area, and even potentially retaining the antiquated existing interchange structures and layouts such as at Steveston...

Oh and at least 5 years extra delay.

The delay is what kills me. The old project will have been completed by the time that this NDP moral victory finally (maybe) gets underway. The NDP are.... probably better than the Christy Clark Liberals in many ways, but on this project? Oh, they played us. They played us like Frans Brüggen plays the flute.

WarrenC12 · #**3754** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:40 PM**

Maybe my tradespeople would be able to show up on time if there weren't so many SOVs clogging up the roads.

Migrant_Coconut · #**3755** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Great. And for the 90% of the other people sitting in single-occupant vehicles creating the traffic they can probably take a bus. I don't understand this "BUT BUT BUT TRADESPEOPLE" argument used against congestion pricing, improving transit, and so on. Yes, tradespeople can't use the bus, we get it. But by moving people who actually can use the bus onto the bus we free up space for those tradespeople to get around quicker!

Where are you getting "90%" from? And what makes you think that bus service that doesn't even justify a B-Line yet would be attractive enough to make a difference? Right now it seems to be all stick, no carrot for Delta.

cairnstone · #**3756** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 7:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Maybe my tradespeople would be able to show up on time if there weren't so many SOVs clogging up the roads.

Their lifestyle makes them late. Cant blame traffic

Dengler Avenue · #**3757** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 7:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Where are you getting "90%" from? And what makes you think that bus service that doesn't even justify a B-Line yet would be attractive enough to make a difference? Right now it seems to be all stick, no carrot for Delta.

GlassCity once told me that it was the residents of Delta that were opposed to frequent transit because they wanted their small town vibe. That was years ago though. Maybe things have changed now. Now, further down, to and from South Surrey and White Rock, the 351 is a frequent bus. I wonder why midday ridership’s so low though. Is the demand really not there?

Migrant_Coconut · #**3758** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 7:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

GlassCity once told me that it was the residents of Delta that were opposed to frequent transit because they wanted their small town vibe. That was years ago though. Maybe things have changed now. Now, further down, to and from South Surrey and White Rock, the 351 is a frequent bus. I wonder why midday ridership’s so low though. Is the demand really not there?

Midday ridership's usually low in general, at least in Vancouver. That's how old farts on Granville and Broadway can spend all noon M-F counting B-Line riders and concluding that there aren't enough for a SkyTrain.

officedweller · #**3759** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 9:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

All you really need is an card reader attached to every dash and a series of gates on the highways; drive past one, it charges you $2-5 depending on the time of day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by libtard

Please cite 1 North American city that employs this type of technology.

Seattle has High Occupancy Toll lanes on I-405 and SR-167 and tolls for bridges.

The HOT lanes charge variable rates depending on distance travelled and current demand.

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Tolling/405/default.htm

I-405 tolls in real-time:
https://www.wsdot.com/traffic/seattl...I-405Toll.aspx

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Tolling/SR1...es/default.htm

SR-167 tolls in real-time:
https://www.wsdot.com/traffic/seattl...SR167Toll.aspx

aberdeen5698 · #**3760** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 10:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Great. And for the 90% of the other people sitting in single-occupant vehicles creating the traffic they can probably take a bus. I don't understand this "BUT BUT BUT TRADESPEOPLE" argument used against congestion pricing, improving transit, and so on.

People wanting road improvements to reduce their own personal travel times will cast about for any rationale to support their desires. They feel threatened by the idea that THEY could use transit instead.