EDM: Province announces north Ring Road plans P3

[CMD UW]

The SW portion is the only one that needs overpasses. The grade level crossings are creating a nightmare, especially in the westend.

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

Anthony Henday West is the biggest nightmare of a "Drive" I've ever driven on. I can't count on one hand the # of times I've actually drove down that @#$#'ing road without stopping for 5km of traffic backed up southbound.

Today it was backed up from Callingwood Road.

Why the north end of AHD was allowed to be opened with traffic lights at 16A and SPR, Callingwood Road and 45th Ave is beyond me.

It is nice, when there is no one on it.

Finish the overpasses and I'll change my opinion. A ring road is nothing unless traffic can actually "move" on it.

Idiocy on the part of the provincial government. Just as they fail intervene and properly plan the growth of Alberta, they fail to plan and build the needed infrastructure to even support half the growth rate.

The provincial government under Klein was a disaster and now its really starting to show that he didn't have much vision beyond debt repayment and the end of his bright red nose.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

Anthony Henday West is the biggest nightmare of a "Drive" I've ever driven on. I can't count on one hand the # of times I've actually drove down that @#$#'ing road without stopping for 5km of traffic backed up southbound.

Today it was backed up from Callingwood Road.

Why the north end of AHD was allowed to be opened with traffic lights at 16A and SPR, Callingwood Road and 45th Ave is beyond me.

It is nice, when there is no one on it.

Finish the overpasses and I'll change my opinion. A ring road is nothing unless traffic can actually "move" on it.

And its not just the 216 they did screwed up this way, the 201 will be similar when the second phase opens in the next few years. There will be at least 4 sets of lights on it when the NW leg is intially 'fully' opened, including one for which there is no plan whatsoever to remove (the others have future bridges already planned for). At least the NE section, which is being done as P3, is moving ahead, 3 months after announcing it they're alreday pouring concrete for bridge abutments. The NW section they've been working on for 4 years still has at least 2 bridges that will be in place for the intial opening barely even started on.

[0773|=\]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

The SW portion is the only one that needs overpasses. The grade level crossings are creating a nightmare, especially in the westend.

To get traffic moving, sure, but there are many more improvements that need to be made to the entire road. On the east side, something needs to be done about the sub-standard curbed median around the Sherwood Park Freeway. There's a very poor left-shoulder width that as a result, and the actual interchange with the Sherwood Park Freeway will need to be rebuilt with a better collector lane system at the very least, because the existing weave-zone is an extremely dangerous design for a 100 km/hr posted speed. There doesn't seem to be enough right of way to build anything much fancier than that. The actual bridge structure at the interchange also has very low clearance, NB direction is 4.9 M if I recall.

Other than that, improvements to lighting, more consistent signage, etc. It all needs to be done to more than just the southwest leg. I'm curious if the Province will eventually sign exit numbers once the whole ring is done and built up to freeway standards...

[0773|=\]

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

Idiocy on the part of the provincial government. Just as they fail intervene and properly plan the growth of Alberta, they fail to plan and build the needed infrastructure to even support half the growth rate.

The provincial government under Klein was a disaster and now its really starting to show that he didn't have much vision beyond debt repayment and the end of his bright red nose.

Naw. It's called phased development, it happens all the time in road developments, particularly new routes. Traffic volumes have to warrant higher capacities, and while this is being anticipated, 30,000 VPD is awfully low to be warranting full access-control right off the bat.

Besides, the original SW ring wasn't even supposed to include interchanges at 111 street and Terwilliger, and the 127 street crossing was also supposed to be signalized, not RIRO like it currently is (better). The province already stepped up it's initial road implementation substantially, and did enough earth-movement around future interchanges to ensure that this route could easily be upgraded to freeway standards in a hurry --when traffic levels warrant it.

Seriously, the SW ring road has the potential to be the nicest section of the entire ring road. There were plenty of things the province did not cheap-out on because they had a vision for an ultimate phase implementation of the road. Ever wonder why the ramps heading SE from Terwilligar to AHD are so long? They have R/W reserved there for a huge systems interchange there (they recognized that the city ultimately wants Terwilligar to be a freeway connection from Whitemud to AHD). And what about this concrete pavement? Drive on an interstate sometime... it lasts twice as long and can handle much heavier truck traffic without showing it.

I'm sorry but I can't let people derail the SW as being terrible when everything is in place for this road to become the best-designed one in our city.

[Kevin_foster]

Originally Posted by 0773|=\

I'm sorry but I can't let people derail the SW as being terrible when everything is in place for this road to become the best-designed one in our city.

But this is what IRKS me - SW AHD is great, IF it was opened for Vehicle use when it was 100% completed - not 60% completed.

It will "become" the best in our city - but for now; the SW leg heading North from about 3:30PM to 6PM is the worst experience one can endure.

I thought I was going to loose my mind.

Any visitor to Alberta that flys to Edmonton to get to, let's say, Jasper - takes the "Ring Road" to "quickly fly around the city" will inevitably have a sour taste in their mouths after driving that congested, backed up, smelly hot mess.

What's taking them so long to build the overpasses across 16A/SPR? I believe the dirt pile/approachways have been sitting there for at least 3-4 years.

[Coldrsx]

^no friggen kidding.

[Kevin_foster]

Oh and thank friggin' god it has no potholes

[big W]

Originally Posted by 0773|=\

Naw. It's called phased development, it happens all the time in road developments, particularly new routes. Traffic volumes have to warrant higher capacities, and while this is being anticipated, 30,000 VPD is awfully low to be warranting full access-control right off the bat.

Besides, the original SW ring wasn't even supposed to include interchanges at 111 street and Terwilliger, and the 127 street crossing was also supposed to be signalized, not RIRO like it currently is (better). The province already stepped up it's initial road implementation substantially, and did enough earth-movement around future interchanges to ensure that this route could easily be upgraded to freeway standards in a hurry --when traffic levels warrant it.

Seriously, the SW ring road has the potential to be the nicest section of the entire ring road. There were plenty of things the province did not cheap-out on because they had a vision for an ultimate phase implementation of the road. Ever wonder why the ramps heading SE from Terwilligar to AHD are so long? They have R/W reserved there for a huge systems interchange there (they recognized that the city ultimately wants Terwilligar to be a freeway connection from Whitemud to AHD). And what about this concrete pavement? Drive on an interstate sometime... it lasts twice as long and can handle much heavier truck traffic without showing it.

I'm sorry but I can't let people derail the SW as being terrible when everything is in place for this road to become the best-designed one in our city.

Thats all well and good, however this is the problem. WOuld you go get a Ferrari and then decide that the wheels and tires are to expensive so you have them taken off and get the ones from a Kia. They don't fit and this is what the province did on the AHD. They went through all the expense and then cheaped out for a minor thing in the overall cost.

[Coldrsx]

and now, like 23avenue, we will pay considerably more.

[Herr_Verlage]

Can someone shed some light on why they decided to build the Henday as only a double lane project? Are they going to have three lanes in some sections? It is maddening that they did not build the whole thing as a triple lane each way minimum. Have they not thought about the future?

[feepa]

Originally Posted by Herr_Verlage

Can someone shed some light on why they decided to build the Henday as only a double lane project? Are they going to have three lanes in some sections? It is maddening that they did not build the whole thing as a triple lane each way minimum. Have they not thought about the future?

AHD is built to be expandable to 4 lanes per direction, including the bridge over the river... they have thought about the future...
Also, I believe the SE is 3 lanes per till 66 st

[0773|=\]

Originally Posted by Herr_Verlage

Can someone shed some light on why they decided to build the Henday as only a double lane project? Are they going to have three lanes in some sections? It is maddening that they did not build the whole thing as a triple lane each way minimum. Have they not thought about the future?

Traffic volumes don't warrant more than two lanes each way, even with backups at lights. 3 lanes each way is suitable for 60-100k vehicles per day, not 30, which most of the Henday (except from Whitemud to SPR) carries.

[0773|=\]

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

But this is what IRKS me - SW AHD is great, IF it was opened for Vehicle use when it was 100% completed - not 60% completed.

It will "become" the best in our city - but for now; the SW leg heading North from about 3:30PM to 6PM is the worst experience one can endure.

I thought I was going to loose my mind.

Any visitor to Alberta that flys to Edmonton to get to, let's say, Jasper - takes the "Ring Road" to "quickly fly around the city" will inevitably have a sour taste in their mouths after driving that congested, backed up, smelly hot mess.

What's taking them so long to build the overpasses across 16A/SPR? I believe the dirt pile/approachways have been sitting there for at least 3-4 years.

Actually, that grading has been sitting around for 10-15 years, it's existed ever since the first leg from Whitemud to SPR has been around --this means it was done by the city and not the province. So, now that this section is under provincial control, that infrastructure has to be reviewed, which takes time and money.

I sympathize with your views, I'm just saying, there's a pile of this road getting built at a dizzying pace right now, and we've even seen in the news that they're getting some preliminary consulting for a SPR interchange. There's also some work being done on a 142 street interchange just south of Terwilligar Drive, so it's not like this road is being abandoned right now.

That SPR interchange, BTW is supposed to have 4 separate bridge structures so it's not the cheapest thing to just up-and-build, and our economy only turned favorable in the last seven years or so... a lot of eyebrows would have been raised if the city or province decided to just plow ahead on that interchange, particularly when the Whitemud to SPR section only carried 20,000 VPD on it's own.

At any rate, infrastructure existing before the province took over the route requires a little more time than upgrades to provincially funded/designed/constructed highway. Design codes are different, soil grading, all that stuff. Be thankful the province is building this route and not the city. Experience has shown me that the City of Edmonton cuts too many corners when designing anything that remotely resembles a freeway.

[0773|=\]

Originally Posted by big W

Thats all well and good, however this is the problem. WOuld you go get a Ferrari and then decide that the wheels and tires are to expensive so you have them taken off and get the ones from a Kia. They don't fit and this is what the province did on the AHD. They went through all the expense and then cheaped out for a minor thing in the overall cost.

Tires are easily replaceable, the engine and body of a Ferrari aren't. That's the point I'm trying to make. Alberta budgeted this but they planned ahead when they realized the cash allotted to this project wasn't going to give the user a full freeway, and there wasn't any more cash coming. They were smart enough to say, "even if it takes us two phases to get this done, the initial phase had better compliment a good design".

They could have given us one or two more overpasses but narrowed the lanes/shoulders or just given us asphalt pavement, but they thought ahead, they knew that a systems interchange at the south side with left-lane access to SW AHD was ESSENTIAL because that route was a part of a much bigger trade corridor known as CANAMEX --but that costs big bucks. Then they realized truck traffic from Alaska is anticipated to use this stretch of road, as this is the link in that trade corridor, so if they cheaped out on the base/paving, and fundamentals of the highway, the road would be going to sh!t today.

I'm glad that they made the initial phase of this corridor with the future in mind, because it now has the potential to be a workhorse for carrying heavy traffic, even if it means one or two years of sitting at temporary signalized intersections. It'll get done, and thankfully they don't have to tear the road apart to do so.

[Edmonchuck]

Originally Posted by 0773|=\

Actually, that grading has been sitting around for 10-15 years, it's existed ever since the first leg from Whitemud to SPR has been around --this means it was done by the city and not the province. So, now that this section is under provincial control, that infrastructure has to be reviewed, which takes time and money.

(...). Be thankful the province is building this route and not the city. Experience has shown me that the City of Edmonton cuts too many corners when designing anything that remotely resembles a freeway.

It has been around since 1992 - when I had cancer...I remember it then..

Edmonton has a poor track record of building infrastructure it needs, preferring to be overly prudent (read lazy) and overly cautious (read chickenshit).

Gateway...23 ave....Whitemud.....Yellowhead (yes, after the original plans were scrapped)...Capilano (the freeway to the next stop light)....shall I go on????