Queen's Park Politics

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Am I the only one noticing that the Conservatives are not actually promising anything or suggesting anything substantial? It's all talk and no concrete follow-through plan. If they want my vote (which they could potentially have gotten had they not migrated to the right even more), they would talk about the actual PLANS and the ACTION they intend to take and HOW it helps us in a variety of sectors and WHY I should support it.

I actually think Hudak was hemmed in at the beginning of the campaign and not sure if he should follow through with a "fiscally responsible" message for fear of igniting anti-Harris sentiment in the media, or giving the Unions a reason to mobilize their political guns. I think they should have just gone through with that anyways, since that ought to be what is pissing off the majority of Ontarians, but instead we got this mess of a "changebook".

Still voted for them, but just because I'm considering track records here, and McGuinty has an awful lousy one.

[eternallyme]

I'm likely to spoil my ballot.

[vid]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I'm likely to spoil my ballot.

Unless you meant to say "decline my ballot", I expect a decent essay from you on why spoiling is better than declining.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by vid

Unless you meant to say "decline my ballot", I expect a decent essay from you on why spoiling is better than declining.

Yeah if that is permitted. Federally it is not an option. I would have cast a blank ballot.

[vid]

It is permitted provincially in Ontario. Hopefully it will be permitted federally by the next election.

[Dr Nevergold]

Only a several hours to go until election... Finally, can the next 21 hours go by quickly? Plus the actual day and get to when polls close? LOL

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Hudak won’t commit to all-day GO service

Progressive Conservative leader Tim Hudak won’t commit to all-day GO service for Hamilton as pledged by the Liberal government, but says he will sit down with mayors and councillors to hear their transit priorities and see how it fits in with his party’s plans to spend $35 billion on infrastructure.

Hudak, in a Saturday morning visit to Dundas to campaign with candidate Donna Skelly, also praised the idea of a Niagara-GTA super highway through the area as something that would create jobs and ease gridlock in Hamilton and Niagara.

Responding to a reporter’s question about support for all-day GO service, Hudak spoke about his party plans to spend $35 billion for infrastructure investments largely targeted at “breaking gridlock, helping families spend more time together and getting goods to market.”

“It’s a balanced plan,” he said, standing with Skelly and 15 party supporters out front of Adeline’s Family Restaurant on King Street West in downtown Dundas.

“Yes. It’s highways. Yes. It’s transit. We’ve got to get the right plan and we need to end the war on the car that we’ve seen from the McGuinty Liberals. The approach I will take is actually different from Dalton McGuinty. I will actually sit down with mayors and councillors and say what are your local priorities and how can they fit in our plan to actually break gridlock and help folks get to work and get home faster and spend time with their kids.”

http://www.thespec.com/news/election...day-go-service

This is part of Hudak's promise to "end the war on the car", which is in reality a promise to start a new war on transit (yeah I know, that's just as brainless of a slogan). His vague pledge for $35 billion for infrastructure would actually be close to $35 billion for highways.

Originally Posted by Wharn

I'm not sure how that works... Ontario's debt was actually reduced from 1995 to 2003, and the budget was balanced in 2001... running a deficit for just one or two years is nothing compared to what McGuinty has done.

What has McGuinty done exactly? Did he cause the global economic meltdown of the last 3 years? He's running a deficit in bad economic times, just like almost every government in the Western world. The Conservatives ran a deficit in boom years, which the Liberals turned into a surplus. Big difference. Anyone who thinks the Conservatives are the party of fiscal restraint is fooling themselves.

[yaletown_fella]

I'm baffled as to how many people are willing to let Ontario continue to plummet into further debt under McGuinty. Without him we wouldn't have become a have not province which is sickening and embarrassing.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I actually think Hudak was hemmed in at the beginning of the campaign and not sure if he should follow through with a "fiscally responsible" message for fear of igniting anti-Harris sentiment in the media, or giving the Unions a reason to mobilize their political guns. I think they should have just gone through with that anyways, since that ought to be what is pissing off the majority of Ontarians, but instead we got this mess of a "changebook".

Still voted for them, but just because I'm considering track records here, and McGuinty has an awful lousy one.

+1
Good to see common sense still exists

The Liberals are launching tonnes of smear campaigns with no facts to back it up. If Hudak had just stuck with promoting his fiscally conservative platform and an ad with the province's debt clock I think he'd be leading the polls by a more comfortable stretch.

Luckily McGuinty has proposed a discriminatory act which would give businesses a $10,000 credit for hiring new immigrants. I would be even more offended if I was a new Canadian. Much of the Hindu Community has already condemned this and vowed to vote NDP or PC.

[haljackey]

What do y'all think of this?

-----

Junk Charts, Ontario PC Party style

Neither axis is linear.

The y-axis is fudged to visually exaggerate the portion of the area under the curve corresponding to the increase under McGuinty. Notice how the distance between $0 and $150 billion is the same as the distance between $150 billion and $200 billion. The x-axis is rescaled such that all of McGuinty's portion looks far bigger (apparently he's been in power half of Ontario's history). http://www.ontariopc.com/pdf/Changebook_en.pdf

77% numerical increase, 400% visual increase!

A 77% increase should correspond to about 3 and a half little men. Instead there are 20 more. Nevermind no adjustment being done for revenue/population increases or inflation. http://www.ontariopc.com/pdf/Changebook_en.pdf

12% numerical increase, 150% visual increase!

The proposed $6.1 billion increase in healthcare spending is a modest, 12% increase, probably mostly in line with the spending necessary to keep up with a growing population. But look at that, in the illustration it goes from 16 ambulances to 40! That's a 150% increase! http://www.ontariopc.com/pdf/Changebook_en.pdf

http://imgur.com/a/VsF4D

-----

Kinda misleading don't you think? Guess it depends on how much you look at the numbers compared to the visuals.

[MolsonExport]

Jesus H. Christ. What a bunch of lying assholes. Pandering to the Canadian version of the teabag populace; most of whom could not add 1/3 to 3/5 if their lives depended on it. I guarantee you, I shall not vote PC in this or quite likely, any other election.

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

+1
Good to see common sense still exists

The Liberals are launching tonnes of smear campaigns with no facts to back it up. If Hudak had just stuck with promoting his fiscally conservative platform and an ad with the province's debt clock I think he'd be leading the polls by a more comfortable stretch.

Luckily McGuinty has proposed a discriminatory act which would give businesses a $10,000 credit for hiring new immigrants. I would be even more offended if I was a new Canadian. Much of the Hindu Community has already condemned this and vowed to vote NDP or PC.

Yawn. Isn't this the Conservative spin that didn't work 3 weeks ago? Why do you think it'll start working the day before the election?

First off, it isn't a foreign-hiring program; you must already be settled in Ontario, you must already have went through the Federal government's immigration system, you must already be a landed Canadian permanent resident and be someone who hasn't been able to find a skilled job within several years of your moving.

This program doesn't apply to foreign-nationals, it does not apply to temporary workers, it doesn't even apply to unskilled labor... The program is limited and targets a few skilled jobs that have shortages, therefore doesn't affect those who have been born in Canada and are seeking work.

This program does apply to everyone who came to Canada recently, and they want to have a chance at being a doctor or engineer or computer programmer or other skilled position instead of being a cab driver or food services worker. Many of these people have foreign degrees that are harder to recognize here.

It isn't offensive nor is it a bad idea, it is only for skilled labor and it is a good policy to have to make sure the brightest minds that have come to Canada - and are already settled - have a chance at a good job after starting jobs that may be well under their skill level.

It is stupid to keep harping on a good policy. Most people are offended that you talk with? It is probably because you've misinformed them, which is a common Conservative theme these days.

McGuinty's program is good for Ontario, and the PC's are just hate-mongering to grab votes. Period.

Besides, this program is a tax credit, no one has to participate. No business HAS to hire a recent immigrant, they will only do so if they find a qualified person and want the tax credit.

Conservatives bitching against a voluntary tax credit in order to help skilled laborers get work? Priceless.

Quite frankly I think Hudak's problem is that Ontarians have seen the wave of Conservatism that Harper and Ford have brought, and even though McGuinty has been in power a long time they have paused and said "hey, this isn't such a bad deal" and are thinking of another Liberal government to balance out the radical right wing nonsense such as this immigrant-bashing nonsense that Team Hudak and his supporters keep bringing up.

He's no-plan Hudak... Say ANYTHING and just hope it sticks...

[Wharn]

I'm glad to see that the moderator is the most impartial person here

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Jesus H. Christ. What a bunch of lying assholes. Pandering to the Canadian version of the teabag populace; most of whom could not add 1/3 to 3/5 if their lives depended on it. I guarantee you, I shall not vote PC in this or quite likely, any other election.

Equate both denominators to 15, resulting in numerators of 5 and 9, respectively. Add numerators with common denominator. Result is 14/15. I'm a PC who grew up under Harris' education system, do I win a cookie? (Actually, my elementary school teachers never bothered telling us how to add fractions. I think we just skipped that part of the book; ended up teaching myself in middle school. Another entry in Wharn's life story.)

I do agree that using this form of statistical misrepresentation is a little shady, but ultimately it just comes down to putting on a big, gleamy show devoid of substance, which is what this whole campaign has been. I'm actually surprised that you're not incensed with spending practices in this election, namely the incident a few months ago where the Catholic teachers' fund that was aimed at defeating the PCs. I won't even mention the Working Families Coalition. I thought you hated having third parties spend money on political advertising? Is it bad to have corporations run shadow political campaigns, but somehow acceptable when unions and special-interests groups do the same?

[Dr Nevergold]

I'm a moderator, not a referee. You're free to post what you want, and I have my own opinions as well. The only thing I mod is when behavior gets personal and attacks happen, otherwise this is a free forum where you can opine as you wish.

Besides, I think my last post was a well reasoned, strongly backed statement for why Hudak's issue with the tax credit is utter bullshit. Its a tax credit to get qualified people in a job. What possibly can there be wrong with that? Hudak has mis-characterized the program as a foreign hiring program - it isn't - and he's throwing mud left and right just to see what sticks. He pretends the job that get this credit are low skill so he can scare blue collar voters - the jobs aren't low skilled jobs at all, it is typically skilled work with specific shortages.

Hudak has few plans of his own, so it is good to point this out. This issue hasn't won him support, so why are his supporters still bringing up this policy? If anything, it helped the Liberals. Now it is hours until the polls close to see if voters buy the Hudak nonsense or continue on the right path with McGuinty.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by Brandon716

I'm a moderator, not a referee. You're free to post what you want, and I have my own opinions as well. The only thing I mod is when behavior gets personal and attacks happen, otherwise this is a free forum where you can opine as you wish.

Besides, I think my last post was a well reasoned, strongly backed statement for why Hudak's issue with the tax credit is utter bullshit. Its a tax credit to get qualified people in a job. What possibly can there be wrong with that? Hudak has mis-characterized the program as a foreign hiring program - it isn't - and he's throwing mud left and right just to see what sticks. He pretends the job that get this credit are low skill so he can scare blue collar voters - the jobs aren't low skilled jobs at all, it is typically skilled work with specific shortages.

Hudak has few plans of his own, so it is good to point this out. This issue hasn't won him support, so why are his supporters still bringing up this policy? If anything, it helped the Liberals. Now it is hours until the polls close to see if voters buy the Hudak nonsense or continue on the right path with McGuinty.

If there is a tax break to companys that hire qualified people that is one thing but when you have it for one group and not another group that is when i think its start to create a bit of a issue.My biggest issue if it was the other way around and said companys will geta tax break if they hire only people who have been in canada 15 plus years people would be screaming its wrong etc.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I'm glad to see that the moderator is the most impartial person here



Equate both denominators to 15, resulting in numerators of 5 and 9, respectively. Add numerators with common denominator. Result is 14/15. I'm a PC who grew up under Harris' education system, do I win a cookie? (Actually, my elementary school teachers never bothered telling us how to add fractions. I think we just skipped that part of the book; ended up teaching myself in middle school. Another entry in Wharn's life story.)

I do agree that using this form of statistical misrepresentation is a little shady, but ultimately it just comes down to putting on a big, gleamy show devoid of substance, which is what this whole campaign has been. I'm actually surprised that you're not incensed with spending practices in this election, namely the incident a few months ago where the Catholic teachers' fund that was aimed at defeating the PCs. I won't even mention the Working Families Coalition. I thought you hated having third parties spend money on political advertising? Is it bad to have corporations run shadow political campaigns, but somehow acceptable when unions and special-interests groups do the same?

Nowhere in my postings can you find any enthusiasm on my part for the Liberals. Rather like the way many now feel about Obama. Disappointment. Frustration. But things could be a lot worse.

Perhaps it is my selective memory, but 90% of the negative campaign ads that I have seen/heard are put on by the PC party. Just like with their federal counterparts, and the Gross Ol Party in the Excited States.

[SteelTown]

New poll has Liberals in the lead

http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario/...ls-in-the-lead

It's Day 29 of the Ontario election campaign, the last day for politicians to make their promises before the people have their say at the ballot box.

Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty, buoyed by new poll results, has just three stops planned — in Windsor, Strathroy and Oakville.

Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak is making six stops between Toronto and Brantford.

New Democratic Party Leader Andrea Horwath has an ambitious eight-stop schedule that includes events in Toronto, Kitchener, Guelph and Niagara Falls.

The last day to drum up votes comes as a new poll suggests the Liberals have taken a solid lead entering the home stretch of the campaign.

The Ipsos Reid survey suggests the Liberals have 41 per cent support amongst decided voters and the Progressive Conservatives have 31 per cent backing. The New Democrats are favoured by 25 per cent while the Green Party sits at three per cent.

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Nowhere in my postings can you find any enthusiasm on my part for the Liberals. Rather like the way many now feel about Obama. Disappointment. Frustration. But things could be a lot worse.

Perhaps it is my selective memory, but 90% of the negative campaign ads that I have seen/heard are put on by the PC party. Just like with their federal counterparts, and the Gross Ol Party in the Excited States.

I don't think you can compare Canadian politics with the US. The Liberals have delivered time and time again, the US Democrats can't deliver the goods. If they try and deliver the goods, they are *always* half baked anymore. Obamacare, anyone?? They almost always screw up what could be a good thing and many US Democratic politicians are on the right wing of the political spectrum... A huge amount of them in fact. The amount of right wing Liberals are few and numbered... Sure, there's a pro-business faction, but it has never controlled the party or strangled it's ability to pass legislation for the people. It just can't be compared with what is happening south of the border IMO.

McGuinty has a lot of tangible progress under his belt. Raising the minimum wage? Done. Investing in green energy and tearing down coal plants? Done. Investing in Ontario health care, modernization of records to electronic databases, hiring more nurses and doctors? Done. Implementing a very controversial, but necessary structural VAT tax change? Done.

McGuinty has proven results. The Democrats in the US... They haven't got the ability to govern because it is practically an ungovernable country with a ludicrous political system.

The results delivered by Liberal governments nationwide are why I've increasingly supported the Liberals in Canada, even if the Liberal brand has ran into problems federally. Liberals simply get stuff done that could never happen in the US. The NDP talks about progress (of which 90% of it is identical to what Liberals will do), the Conservatives destroy progress generally speaking, the Liberals have tangible progress under their belt. The choice for me has always been simple - despite some of the problems that I don't like. Do I like McGuinty's nanny laws like the repossession of vehicles that go over 50km/h over the speed limit? No. Do I like the fact that ehealth had massive waste and had to be restructured in the middle of the program? No... But if you take the collective facts into view, the Ontario Liberals have turned Ontario around from the days of Mike Harris nonsense, much like the Federal Liberals handed Harper a strong, successful Canadian government.

The proof is in the results, not the speeches or campaign rhetoric.


Instead of rhetoric or platforms, just think about the results in the past decade in Canada.

Who has stood up for human rights and allowed things like gay marriage to happen in Canada?

Who has invested in green technology and gotten Canada to try and compete on this stage?

Who is always trying to find innovative ways to make the health act work - within a budget - and be responsible about it?

Who is investing in public transit, especially in Ontario? Who filled in the holes of the original Eglinton subway??

Who has invested in other improvements, such as an entire revamp of the QEW in St Catharines and the Burlington-Oakville regions?

Who has tried to make living conditions better for the average person by pushing through North America's most progressive minimum wage standards on a province-wide basis instead of small municipal laws in only expensive cities?? Ontario is the only place in North America where a two person household can expect $41k in annual income because of it with only one direction to go... UP. Liberals have given average people the chance to advance themselves, the Conservatives would prefer to cut people's chances.

I think once you start asking basic questions, it is clear where progress is and where the others stand. It is as clear as a sky with no clouds in it. There is no comparison, and the bitching about small issues really should end and people should support progress instead of letting Ontario slip back down into a Harris-like hole.

[SteelTown]

Hamilton Mayor Bob Bratina endorses Liberals

http://www.thespec.com/news/election...orses-liberals

Hamilton Mayor Bob Bratina took the unusual step today of endorsing a party in Thursday’s provincial election.

He is behind the McGuinty Liberal party.

“The surest way to continue the progress of the last four years and ensure the fulfillment of commitments to GO service and the uploading of social service costs is to return the McGuinty government with a majority,” he said at a Stoney Creek Chamber of Commerce meeting today.

“Neither Mr. Hudak nor Miss Horwath have had any communication with my office” about their parties’ stance on uploading and GO service, he said.

“I’m convinced these initiatives will be lost if this government is not returned.”

[reidjr]

Brandon716
In ottawa and area they have done some good things as well but going forward with things such as a mini hospital in orleans the lrt which ontario is paying a fair bit for a new off ramp at the scotia bank place i could go on and on but as you say they do get things done.I have to say my real big fear is if the pc or ndp were to get in alot of these projects would not happen.