Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte

Atlantic giveaway for me is anything that rhymes with car ("kerr"). Pirates.

And, in reverse, ye all sounds like you're about to say "cahier d'exercices". Car shouldn't have so many syllables.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And, in reverse, ye all sounds like you're about to say "cahier d'exercices". Car shouldn't have so many syllables.

Jesus christ, Sig. You're triggering my PTSD from third grade French class dropping bombs like that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

With the media it's pretty normal. A few generations ago everything you heard was in the accent of your neck of the woods... not anywhere near the case anymore.

My cousins in Nice are sounding much more like Parisians than their grandfathers did. I think my grandpa who's now retired in the Eastern Townships still has more of a Provençal accent right now than them in spite of having lived here for exactly 60 years this summer...

I expect Ontario kids to tend to speak English more and more like the people on TV and the internet do. I am sure this slow phenomenon has been going on for a few decades already.

About two hours ago, one of my kids' friends I was driving to a class (my turn to play taxi tonight) said ''ça, je ne supporte pas''. She's from an average middle-class Québécois family. Not really élitist or Parisian Poseur Québécois at all.

That's really not something average Québécois kids would have said 20 or 30 years ago. They would have said ''ça, j'suis pas capable"… which some still say of course. But the other, more Euro-French expression is not something you would have heard before.

[hipster duck]

When it comes to Canadian English, I could always tell someone's social class right away, or their ethnic group (Aboriginal vs. Canadian-born Cantonese Chinese from an ethnic enclave like Markham/Richmond) but geography was difficult.

Basically, all else being equal, I can really only distinguish between 3 geographical accents in English Canada:

1. Newfoundland
2. Rest of Atlantic Canada
3. Everybody else from Montreal to Tofino and in between

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I imagine I say the Canadian "ou", or someone would've pointed it out to me now, but I can't really hear the difference. I certainly couldn't tell you who is from is the U.S. and who is from Ontario based on that - only if the U.S. one is identifiable for reasons other than "ou".

I can just tell it's a mainland, Canadian accent sometimes when the "o" is so drawn out and every syllable sounds like a separate word with a period in between. "Downtown" is the worst - with both syllables equal in length, even. Instantly identifies a mainlander. As does "car". But not "ou".

Is the "ou" in "house" different from the "ou" in "houses"? With Canadian raising, it is -- because the "s" in "house" is unvoiced, the vowel changes for Canadians, in comparison with when it occurs before the voiced "s" in "houses". Americans (other than in a handful of areas that also exhibit the raising phenomenon) pronounce the "ou" in "house" more or less as Canadians pronounce the "ou" in "houses".

You could do the same analysis with "knife"/"knives" ... another pair where the Canadian raising makes one vowel into two very distinct vowels.

[RueBulmer]

The last time I was in the southern United States I found their accent becoming much flatter than I had remembered. A few days later I was in Napanee and heard more of a twang, not a southern twang, but a twang nonetheless.

[lio45]

Do Australians and American Southerners sound somewhat similar to you guys?

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Is the "ou" in "house" different from the "ou" in "houses"? With Canadian raising, it is -- because the "s" in "house" is unvoiced, the vowel changes for Canadians, in comparison with when it occurs before the voiced "s" in "houses". Americans (other than in a handful of areas that also exhibit the raising phenomenon) pronounce the "ou" in "house" more or less as Canadians pronounce the "ou" in "houses".

You could do the same analysis with "knife"/"knives" ... another pair where the Canadian raising makes one vowel into two very distinct vowels.

I think I say house/houses the same, but I also think knife/knives differ slightly.

I've found another reason I may not be able to hear the difference - most of my exposure to Americans (both in person, and on television) has been in the northeast. It's where I've been most often, and all our American cable networks here are the Boston affiliates.

And:

Despite its name, Canadian raising is not restricted to Canada.
Raising of both /aɪ/ and /aʊ/ is common in eastern New England, for example in Boston,[3] as well as in the Upper Midwest. South Atlantic English and the accents of England's Fens feature it as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_raising

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

When it comes to Canadian English, I could always tell someone's social class right away, or their ethnic group (Aboriginal vs. Canadian-born Cantonese Chinese from an ethnic enclave like Markham/Richmond) but geography was difficult.

Basically, all else being equal, I can really only distinguish between 3 geographical accents in English Canada:

1. Newfoundland
2. Rest of Atlantic Canada
3. Everybody else from Montreal to Tofino and in between

I wonder what my gf's family would sound like to you, logically #2 (old stock Gaspé Anglos).

FYI, the approx. line between where you'd find the mainstream Francophone Québécois accent vs accents that sound Francophone Atlantic / Acadian is not where the provincial border is... I wonder if the Anglo accent line between what you'd lump in Atlantic vs what you'd lump into Montreal-and-points-west is approximately in the same area.

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by lio45

Do Australians and American Southerners sound somewhat similar to you guys?

There are similar pronunciations of specific words, and maybe a melodious quality that isn't heard as much in northern English, except for Napanee.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

When it comes to Canadian English, I could always tell someone's social class right away, or their ethnic group (Aboriginal vs. Canadian-born Cantonese Chinese from an ethnic enclave like Markham/Richmond) but geography was difficult.

Basically, all else being equal, I can really only distinguish between 3 geographical accents in English Canada:

1. Newfoundland
2. Rest of Atlantic Canada
3. Everybody else from Montreal to Tofino and in between

That has always been my understanding. When you slop the inevitable class/ethnic/education variables into the mix, it can make things seem more complex, but geographically we are one from Montreal to Vancouver Island.

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by lio45

I wonder what my gf's family would sound like to you, logically #2 (old stock Gaspé Anglos).

FYI, the approx. line between where you'd find the mainstream Francophone Québécois accent vs accents that sound Francophone Atlantic / Acadian is not where the provincial border is... I wonder if the Anglo accent line between what you'd lump in Atlantic vs what you'd lump into Montreal-and-points-west is approximately in the same area.

Even in a relatively small population of Anglos like Montreal I hear differences by borough.

[SignalHillHiker]

A couple really clear examples of some of my favourite local accents.

Rural Bonavista Peninsula (this particular example of it is epic; interview implies she was just visiting, but accent is from there so she presumably lives in the city now but was going back out home):

• Video Link

Rural Southern Shore:

• Video Link

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Is the "ou" in "house" different from the "ou" in "houses"? With Canadian raising, it is -- because the "s" in "house" is unvoiced, the vowel changes for Canadians, in comparison with when it occurs before the voiced "s" in "houses". Americans (other than in a handful of areas that also exhibit the raising phenomenon) pronounce the "ou" in "house" more or less as Canadians pronounce the "ou" in "houses".

You could do the same analysis with "knife"/"knives" ... another pair where the Canadian raising makes one vowel into two very distinct vowels.

You are spot on re "house/houses", but I've never heard of a Canadian/American difference involving "knife/knives".

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

Do Australians and American Southerners sound somewhat similar to you guys?

I don't know which American Southern accent you're thinking of, but I can't think of any way in which they are remotely similar.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by RueBulmer

Even in a relatively small population of Anglos like Montreal I hear differences by borough.

That's pretty impressive. I'm sure you'd have no difficulty distinguishing between various regional accents in the Montreal-to-Tofino accent zone then.

(Not saying you're not all correct -- they might generally sound the same, but again, to a trained ear, there's almost no limit to further subdividing accents within the same accent family.)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I don't know which American Southern accent you're thinking of, but I can't think of any way in which they are remotely similar.

The one you hear in small towns and rural areas in the deep South. (BTW, that accent zone has its own subdivisions, they definitely don't all sound alike.)

Maybe the problem is my limited sample of Australians then...

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by lio45

That's pretty impressive. I'm sure you'd have no difficulty distinguishing between various regional accents in the Montreal-to-Tofino accent zone then.

(Not saying you're not all correct -- they might generally sound the same, but again, to a trained ear, there's almost no limit to further subdividing accents within the same accent family.)

i might notice differences but wouldn't be able to pin them to a map. Within Montreal it's a bit easier.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by lio45

I wonder what my gf's family would sound like to you, logically #2 (old stock Gaspé Anglos).

FYI, the approx. line between where you'd find the mainstream Francophone Québécois accent vs accents that sound Francophone Atlantic / Acadian is not where the provincial border is... I wonder if the Anglo accent line between what you'd lump in Atlantic vs what you'd lump into Montreal-and-points-west is approximately in the same area.

Good question. Does her family's accent sound more like these kids from your neck of the woods?

Or more like this wetsuit-wearing guy in Saint John (skip to 0:40)?

The kids from Sherbrooke have the same kind of accent as the kinds of kids who would make sarcastic videos in Nanaimo. But that guy in Saint John would clearly not be from around here.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by RueBulmer

Even in a relatively small population of Anglos like Montreal I hear differences by borough.

I can't really prove you right or wrong, but are you sure you're accounting for things like class differences or ethnic differences? I mean, if Anglos in Westmount talk differently from Anglos from Verdun, there's probably something else going on.

The follow-up question would be if you can hear the difference between a born-and-bred WASP Westmount lawyer vs. a born-and-bred WASP West Vancouver lawyer of the same general age.