Increase in Major civil disturbances - Page 4

MTLskyline · #61 Posted **Mar 21, 2012, 11:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaillant

Tomorrow downtown Montréal 100 000 to 150 000 mad students, to watch!! I'll be one of them!

I really don't get this protest. Tuition in Quebec is the cheapest in Canada. Even after the increase, Quebec's tuition will still be well below the national average. BTW, I am a university student, I have paid every cent of my education through my own work, and am 100% behind the tuition increase.

Currently 68% of tuition fees in Quebec are government (taxpayer) subsidized. Quebec university students currently only pay 12.7% of the cost of their own university education! After the 5 year increase, students will fund only 16.9% of their education....

The government is not asking for students to pay $10,000 (which is roughly what international students pay) a year (or even $5,000 which is roughly what Canadian students from outside Quebec pay). They are increasing tuition gradually over 5 years from $2,168 to $3,793 (annual increases of $325 based on someone taking 5 courses each semester). Big deal.

I suggest you take a read through this document: http://www.budget.finances.gouv.qc.c...ducationen.pdf (p. 21 shows the breakdown in the increase in per credit costs)

Quebec is one of the most indebted jurisdictions in the world. They have to find a way to balance their books.

kool maudit · #62 Posted **Mar 21, 2012, 11:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

Christianity is worse because of the kind of influence it has on society, and how much of that influence it has.

there have been a lot of creeds in which the god descends to earth. usually, it is as a hero. in christianity, he was killed. christianity is a story of our bad hospitality.

it should have made us merciful, but, moviegoers all, we tend to remember the blood only.

Rico Rommheim · #63 Posted **Mar 21, 2012, 11:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

I really don't get this protest. Tuition in Quebec is the cheapest in Canada. Even after the increase, Quebec's tuition will still be well below the national average. BTW, I am a university student, I have paid every cent of my education through my own work, and am 100% behind the tuition increase.

Currently 68% of tuition fees in Quebec are government (taxpayer) subsidized. Quebec university students currently only pay 12.7% of the cost of their own university education! After the 5 year increase, students will fund only 16.9% of their education....

The government is not asking for students to pay $10,000 (which is roughly what international students pay) a year (or even $5,000 which is roughly what Canadian students from outside Quebec pay). They are increasing tuition gradually over 5 years from $2,168 to $3,793 (annual increases of $325 based on someone taking 5 courses each semester). Big deal.

I suggest you take a read through this document: http://www.budget.finances.gouv.qc.c...ducationen.pdf (p. 21 shows the breakdown in the increase in per credit costs)

Quebec is one of the most indebted jurisdictions in the world. They have to find a way to balance their books.

Completely agree. These protests are bull. I'd wager that most of these kids partaking either DON'T actually go to school, or are taking part-time course loads, or most likely, have gotten caught up in the hype of UQAM's favorite sport.

Vaillant · #64 Posted **Mar 21, 2012, 11:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

I really don't get this protest. Tuition in Quebec is the cheapest in Canada. Even after the increase, Quebec's tuition will still be well below the national average. BTW, I am a university student, I have paid every cent of my education through my own work, and am 100% behind the tuition increase.

Currently 68% of tuition fees in Quebec are government (taxpayer) subsidized. Quebec university students currently only pay 12.7% of the cost of their own university education! After the 5 year increase, students will fund only 16.9% of their education....

The government is not asking for students to pay $10,000 (which is roughly what international students pay) a year (or even $5,000 which is roughly what Canadian students from outside Quebec pay). They are increasing tuition gradually over 5 years from $2,168 to $3,793 (annual increases of $325 based on someone taking 5 courses each semester). Big deal.

I suggest you take a read through this document: http://www.budget.finances.gouv.qc.c...ducationen.pdf (p. 21 shows the breakdown in the increase in per credit costs)

Quebec is one of the most indebted jurisdictions in the world. They have to find a way to balance their books.

Quebec is not Canada, you have to understand that we want everyones to be able to go to university, it's a right to get an education so yes I believe university should be for everyones not only the rich, so that is why we are against this 75% higher tuition and we would like to see a system like most countries in Europe to be as low as 500$ to 0$ It work there why he wouldn't work in Canada/Québec?

vid · #65 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 12:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrChills

It's embarrassing and sad that this happens in Canada.

Yes, almost as embarrassing and sad as the conditions on reserves which everyone has forgotten about. Again.

MonkeyRonin · #66 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 12:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

Yes, almost as embarrassing and sad as the conditions on reserves which everyone has forgotten about. Again.

I think this pretty much just proves that they need to start burning shit and throwing rocks at police if they want to attract attention to the reserve issues...

cormiermax · #67 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 12:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I think this pretty much just proves that they need to start burning shit and throwing rocks at police if they want to attract attention to the reserve issues...

Then turn the general public against they're cause.

MTLskyline · #68 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 12:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Completely agree. These protests are bull. I'd wager that most of these kids partaking either DON'T actually go to school, or are taking part-time course loads, or most likely, have gotten caught up in the hype of UQAM's favorite sport.

LOL at the UQAM reference. It seems every other day there is some kind of protest going on over there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaillant

Quebec is not Canada, you have to understand that we want everyones to be able to go to university, it's a right to get an education so yes I believe university should be for everyones not only the rich, so that is why we are against this 75% higher tuition and we would like to see a system like most countries in Europe to be as low as 500$ to 0$ It work there why he wouldn't work in Canada/Québec?

Everyone should have an equal opportunity to attend university, but not everyone should attend university.

Sure education is a right: you have the right to attend elementary school and high school. Those are the basics that everyone is entitled to. However, a university education is not a right, but a privilege. If it was a "right", then universities would be forced let in everyone who applied whether they merit being there or not (from a grades perspective).

The government is really trying their best to ease students into the increase by doing it over 5 years in addition to increasing funding for bursaries (which is free money). In fact 35% of the increase in tuition fees will go to provide low income students with bursaries and loans, which I think is a worthy cause. (p. 39 http://www.budget.finances.gouv.qc.c...ducationen.pdf)

I don't see how accessibility is severely reduced under this plan. Modest increases and enrollment don't even seem to be that closely related. (Source: http://www.iedm.org/files/juin2010_en_0.pdf)

In order for the government to be able to afford providing free tuition, they would need to decide where the money would come from. What would you suggest they do? Remove it from another government program (which one)? Increase taxes? Borrow the money indefinitely?

flar · #69 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 1:45 AM**

Hey, Quebec can be like the rest of North America and have all kinds of young people start out into life with the burden of student debt

Acajack · #70 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 2:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

Yes, almost as embarrassing and sad as the conditions on reserves which everyone has forgotten about. Again.

There are problems with conditions on reserves? In Canada? No waaaaaay!

Vaillant · #71 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 2:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

Hey, Quebec can be like the rest of North America and have all kinds of young people start out into life with the burden of student debt

I have a student debt of 14350$ today, I haven't started my MBA yet!

Acajack · #72 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 3:05 AM**

I have not really made up my mind on what I think of the Quebec tuition fee hike, but that being said the argument that it is higher everywhere else in North America doesn't really hold much water. Who cares what it costs elsewhere and why do we necessarily have to mimick them? North America is not ''the world'' and Canadians have this annoying trait of always limiting their focus on the U.S. and using that country as their only point of comparison. As someone pointed out, many countries actually offer free university.

someone123 · #73 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 3:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

Sure education is a right: you have the right to attend elementary school and high school. Those are the basics that everyone is entitled to. However, a university education is not a right, but a privilege. If it was a "right", then universities would be forced let in everyone who applied whether they merit being there or not (from a grades perspective).

To be honest I think one serious problem right now is overeducation or education that is poorly tailored to the real needs of students. There's a huge oversupply of arts students, for example, who have spent years obtaining largely unhelpful degrees they weren't particularly passionate about getting. It's particularly sad when these people end up with tens of thousands of dollars in student debt to go with their meager career prospects. The student debt can be partly dealt with by cutting back on tuition, but there's still the cost of living and the opportunity cost of giving up whatever options are available.

Unfortunately as a society I think we're really lagging behind, building systems based on wisdom that's decades out of date. Back in 1950 degrees were scarcer and any sort of degree probably really did improve just about anybody's prospects. That's not so true today, and it makes perfect sense that the value of a degree should drop as the supply of degrees increases.

We are also currently headed for disaster when it comes to labour and the whole outdated concept of job creation being central to economic success. It is going to be really hard to keep everybody employed as the value of most kinds of labour continues to drop.

Darkoshvilli · #74 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 4:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaillant

Tomorrow downtown Montréal 100 000 to 150 000 mad students, to watch!! I'll be one of them!

I thought it was 30k? 150k would make for some good youtube stuff.

manny_santos · #75 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 5:14 AM**

I believe that university education is a universal right for those who have the academic ability. I am an advocate of free university education for anyone who can pass a strict entrance exam, which is the way it is done in many parts of the world. While it can be argued that some of the European countries offering zero tuition have major financial problems, other countries seem to have no problem offering it. Mexico has no problem offering free university, and as I recall, their expenditures on education in total, as a percentage of GDP, are roughly the same as Canada.

Countries like Mexico are a model for how the world should be offering post-secondary education. The poorest of the poor in rural villages, if they are smart enough, can attend university and graduate debt-free. University in that country is also much more oriented towards getting students jobs after they graduate - there's no useless courses in philosophy or psychology if you're taking a business degree, for example; you take a large number of business courses to prepare you to work in business, instead of taking a major in business complemented with a bunch of unrelated courses. Meanwhile our graduates are drowning in debt while they're trying to earn barely enough money to pay their student debts; forget about even buying a house before age 30. I know I won't be.

I believe that Canadian (and American) colleges and universities are about money more than academics. They don't attract the best and the brightest, they go for whoever has the most money. Not surprisingly, most of the people I knew at Western were from wealthy Toronto-area families; some of the less well-off people I knew from London either never completed their undergraduate degree, or took seven years to do it, due to a lack of funds. Universities in other countries go after the brightest students, regardless of financial situation or class.

One of the beautiful things about a system where students don't pay tuition is that they don't have to work in order to pay for their education. Imagine in a city like London, Ontario, with an unemployment rate near 10%, how many jobs would be freed up for the people if so many part-time jobs weren't taken by Western and Fanshawe students. At the same time, Western students, for example, wouldn't be wasting their time brewing coffee at Tim Hortons while studying law. My cousin would be employed again and would be able to support his new family. The added benefit would be that students could focus more on their studies; in some countries with fully public universities, the school year is 10 months long.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but be a little bitter after wasting over $20,000 on a social sciences-related degree and never being able to find a job related to my major (financial management), while people I know in the country I'm currently working in pay no tuition, graduate debt-free, find a job in their field right away, and have greater purchasing power than people my age in Canada have these days.