Richmond, B.C., considers banning Chinese-only signage

[SignalHillHiker]

I tend to agree. I have no problem with taking all of the government-related rights of marriage and either getting rid of them or enabling people to choose ANY person in their lives to afford those rights (inheritance, pension, whatever) - a spouse, a child, a cousin, a friend, who cares. But just one.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'm curious as to why that's the case. Perhaps political parties delibarately encourage riding associations to nominate minority candidates? I've also noticed that Franco-Ontarians have a tendency to be over-represented in the Ontario legislature as well in a sense.. in that ridings like Ottawa-Vanier and Ottawa-Orleans with substantial francophone minorities but nonetheless strong anglo majorities tend to always have francophone MPPs & MPs.

The lack of party affiliations in local politics in many (most?) provinces creates a situation that favours the incumbents - and hence you're likely to get councilors who've been in that position forever, who are by extension more likely to be representative of the ethnic demographics that existed few decades earlier.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'm curious as to why that's the case. Perhaps political parties delibarately encourage riding associations to nominate minority candidates? I've also noticed that Franco-Ontarians have a tendency to be over-represented in the Ontario legislature as well in a sense.. in that ridings like Ottawa-Vanier and Ottawa-Orleans with substantial francophone minorities but nonetheless strong anglo majorities tend to always have francophone MPPs & MPs.

Franco-Ontarians and francophones outside Quebec in general tend to vote in blocks (often for the Liberals) but lately other parties have gotten wise to this. In a riding where at least 25% of people are francophone your chances of winning are slim if your candidate is not francophone.

I suspect they think that an anglophone rep won't defend their interests. It's an old reflex, and one that's probably not based in fact at all. At least not anymore.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Franco-Ontarians and francophones outside Quebec in general tend to vote in blocks (often for the Liberals) but lately other parties have gotten wise to this. In a riding where at least 25% of people are francophone your chances of winning are slim if your candidate is not francophone.

I suspect they think that an anglophone rep won't defend their interests. It's an old reflex, and one that's probably not based in fact at all. At least not anymore.

Madeleine Meilleur (whom I have always liked) has made a very nice career for herself from this.

[Ontarois]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I think all signage should have some English on it.

Chinese for all I care can still be the larger print, but to be honest having your signage in a location (British Columbia / Anglo Canada) where English is the official "common" tongue makes you business obviously exclusive to non Chinese, which is essentially racism.

There are people from countries around the world living in Metro Vancouver, and we use English as the equalizer.

Again, if your signs are only in Chinese it is obvious that you don't really want white, brown, black or even other non Chinese Asian customers. It is indirectly (or I bet in some cases directly) prejudice.

Again, that doesn't mean take down all the Chinese signs, it just means add some English ones as well.

I think the Canadian constitution guarantees freedom of expression and unless a province wants to invoke the not withstanding clause, then I don't see the point in forcing a language on business owners. I don't see why a Chinese language book store should have to have a sign in English or French. A Chinese sign alone will attract its target audience. This isn't a case of protecting the language of the majority as is the case in Quebec, where a case can be made for having French mandatory on signage.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Ontarois

I think the Canadian constitution guarantees freedom of expression and unless a province wants to invoke the not withstanding clause, then I don't see the point in forcing a language on business owners. I don't see why a Chinese language book store should have to have a sign in English or French. A Chinese sign alone will attract its target audience. This isn't a case of protecting the language of the majority as is the case in Quebec, where a case can be made for having French mandatory on signage.

How is it any different? Why is protecting the language of a dead colonial power that's been gone for over 200 years more important?

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Ontarois

I think the Canadian constitution guarantees freedom of expression and unless a province wants to invoke the not withstanding clause, then I don't see the point in forcing a language on business owners. I don't see why a Chinese language book store should have to have a sign in English or French. A Chinese sign alone will attract its target audience. This isn't a case of protecting the language of the majority as is the case in Quebec, where a case can be made for having French mandatory on signage.

Usually, I would agree with this. I am generally very against restrictions and regulations like that. However, if you read through the entire thread (which was quite productive) you'll see my reasons for this exception. At the end of the day, all I can say is if you don't experience it for yourself, you won't get it. It really sucks.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by whatnext

How is it any different? Why is protecting the language of a dead colonial power that's been gone for over 200 years more important?

Because of the two founding languages of modern Canada, French is threatened and English isn't. I know I am beating a dead horse here, but that is it.

[1overcosc]

I'm not 100% sure if Quebec's French language protection laws are needed anymore; they served their purpose in the 1960s and 1970s in eliminating the 'dominant minority syndrome' and bringing Quebec to a functionally francophone place. Nowadays I think it's mostly self sustaining... I feel like any business setting up shop in Quebec would have signs, service, etc. primarly in French simply as a business decision.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

I disagree. I do not think the government should be forcing businesses to use a particular language on their signage.

This issue has arisen before and the by-law has never passed. Hopefully that continues.

+1
The vast majority of their clientele are asians. Asians tend to have the most disposable income anyways. What incentive do they have to cater to less monied ethnic groups?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

+1
The vast majority of their clientele are asians. Asians tend to have the most disposable income anyways. What incentive do they have to cater to less monied ethnic groups?

Where do you get this stat that Asians (by that I assume you mean Chinese) have the most disposable income. I remember they looked at income by ethnic group in Ontario and Chinese here had actually below average income compared to other ethnic groups.

[Steveston]

What tends to happen in places like Richmond, is that the family sets up the mom and kids in Canada, living in a $2 - 3 million new McMansion, and the dad stays in China making the income. The Canadian residents declare very little income, and appear, to CRA, to be a low income household, despite the palatial digs, and multiple BMWs and Mercedes sitting in the garage/driveway.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Where do you get this stat that Asians (by that I assume you mean Chinese) have the most disposable income. I remember they looked at income by ethnic group in Ontario and Chinese here had actually below average income compared to other ethnic groups.

Very different in BC. There are of course less economically advantaged Chinese migrants, and many multi-generational families as well, but the amount of outrageously wealthy Chinese immigrants in Vancouver is simply staggering compared to Toronto, or really most places in the world.

[ssiguy]

If someone wants all Chinese menus then go for it but ALL signs should have at least one of the official languages prominent although not necessarily the largest print.

If they want to only speak Chinese in their store or restaurant then knock yourself out but signs outside are in the PUBLIC realm. The whole reason for signage is to grab the attention of the public and we have 2 official public languages in this country.........English and French. The public has the right to understand all signage that is in the public realm.

Inside a restaurant/store/business is a private space but once it goes outside it becomes public and that means the public has the right to know what the distracting {which all signage by it's very nature} sign is. If someone doesn't like it then too bad.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Very different in BC. There are of course less economically advantaged Chinese migrants, and many multi-generational families as well, but the amount of outrageously wealthy Chinese immigrants in Vancouver is simply staggering compared to Toronto, or really most places in the world.

I had my obligatory daily luxury car sighting with a new driver plaque and youngster behind the wheel en route to work in Richmond: today it was a Lamborghini with a 'N' (novice) graduated licence plaque, and on Sunday I saw a Tesla P85D with matte black wrap and neon pinstripe highlights, and a 'N' plaque. So anecdotally, story checks out.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I saw my obligatory daily luxury car sighting with a new driver plaque and youngster behind the wheel en route to work in Richmond: today it was a Lamborghini with a 'N' (novice) graduated licence plaque, and on Sunday I saw a Tesla P85D with matte black wrap and neon pinstripe highlights, and a 'N' plaque. So anecdotally, story checks out.

Did you check to make sure they were Chinese for it to check out?

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Because of the two founding languages of modern Canada, French is threatened and English isn't. I know I am beating a dead horse here, but that is it.

I would say English actually is threatened in Richmond. I went to a chain restaurant on No 3. road recently and had a difficult time communicating. The place was packed and only one other table had non-Chinese at it.

[MolsonExport]

I heard that Cantonese was under threat, from Mandarin, naturally, in Vancouver.

[ssiguy]

A Chinese foreign flipper almost never does business with anyone who does not speak Mandarin. Many real estate agents rarely use a word of English.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I heard that Cantonese was under threat, from Mandarin, naturally, in Vancouver.

HKers are going back to HK in droves. Almost all my mid 90s high school friends are back there. They are more racist towards mainlanders than anyone.

It's too bad too, apparently I pronounce Cantonese swear words better than almost all white people.