CHICAGO | General Developments

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Yes. The third floor was always slated to be at least around half-occupied (l20,000-30,000 sq ft) by such a concept. It was to be run by LEYE previously. The 3rd and 4th floors are still to be multi tenant....several additional tenants on the 3rd floor and 2 on the 4th....

No, the concepts were completely different. The LEYE thing was a food court. Eataly certainly does not qualify as a mere "food court". They actually were well into the construction of the LEYE food court, but were evicted for cost overruns after Freed lost control of the project. Also there was some sort of different arrangement between them and Freed which the bank didn't want to continue (Freed was partially paid in equity in the food court or something) which was also a factor.

Remember there was a food court at the top of Chicago Place Mall and look how that worked out... That is simply not enough to draw people into a building especially when it is almost impossible to tell the food court is there as the case would still have been with B37. On the otherhand, a hot brand like Eataly would have had no problem drawing people since people actively seek it out.

[SamInTheLoop]

^ No, No No. El Wrongo, Capitano. It was not a mere food court. It was always a more gourmet upscale food hall/emporium (yes, including what LEYE's plans were). You have your concepts mixed up here. Just trust me here. Do you honestly think that it was ever planned that on the 3rd floor of Block 37 there was to be a typical Class B suburban regional mall (or - yes, Chicago Place) food court, featuring mostly fast-food/and maybe one or two fast casual options?? Really? That was never - ever - the case. I'm not sure how that ever had gotten into people's heads - but it's patently false. Someone please back me up here - Ardecila - you always seem to have some inside info here, you know the deal, no?

Freed and/or its execs got into trouble with it's lenders for (of course we now know among many, many other things - and not not just with its lenders - also the justice department!) forming these somewhat shady jv partnerships with some of its planned tenants - Muvico (formally the prospective movie theater tenant), as you mention LEYE, and also I believe that ridiculous idea for a Bigsy and Kruthers comeback.

Freed was a total f-up, by the way. Your credit attribution for what they did with the Sullivan Center as somehow supporting evidence that they were not just a lousy developer here (ie it's the design, or some other faulty explanation for project failure to date) is also a non-starter. Completely different situation as it was a complete no-brainer to turn above floor 2 into mid-priced office space there - almost anyone would have done the same thing. Although I don't know how the overall project has truly faired financially, I suspect ok, as Freed really lucked out there (assume in large part this was due to them landing Target) as its lender (different obviously than at Block 37) sought to not foreclose. A lot of others, especially at that time, would have....

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

^ No, No No. It was not a mere food court. It was always a more gourmet upscale food hall/emporium. Trust me.

No, I know what was. Just being more upscale than your typical McDonalds and Panda Express does not make it any less of a food court. It was going to be modeled on Food Life in Water Tower Place which does not impress me as much more than your typical food court set up, but with non-nasty food.

Eataly is not even remotely close to a foodcourt. It is more of a public market (something which Chicago has a glaring lack of) and is so widely known that it is essentially a minor tourist attraction. LEYE's concept here was not even remotely close to being what Eataly is and would never have been an active attraction driving people into the mall off the streets. The Food Life concept was designed to cater to office lunch crowds, not exactly the kind of foot traffic that has an hour or two to browse other retailers on their way in and out. Eataly on the other hand is an experience meant to be enjoyed by everyone from local residents, to office workers, to tourists, to shoppers in from the suburbs looking to pick up some fancy wine, spices, or olive oil. The two concepts are radically different.

All you need to ask yourself is when the last time you thought "Man, I really need to go to Food Life to get lunch". It doesn't happen. That concept caters to people who are already in Water Tower Place or the nearby offices and want to stop for lunch. It isn't a draw in and of itself.

[SamInTheLoop]

^ Oh come'on - the example you used in your previous post was Chicago Place, which was overwhelmingly a typical downscale cookie cutter suburbanish mall food court in the one downtown vertical mall (at least in the last 15 years - not sure if there were any prior to that...though I doubt it) that was a failure (by the way, think about this the next time Mr. Downtown or someone talks about this urban retail form...Water Tower Place? Success. 900? Success - although, not quite to Water Towers' stratospheric level. North Bridge? Success. Is it the model for the future? No, I certainly wouldn't argue that, but to listen to several on these pages, you'd think it was a dead, failed retail form....not so - and I digress!) Food Life by any account is quite successful, and quite different from a standard 'food court'.......while LEYE at Block 37 was planned to be something certainly closer to Food Life than the Chicago Place food court, it was different in that it was also (as the now Sandoval food hall) planned to be more of a destination than just a place to capture dining dollars for shoppers already in the complex (ala Food Life, which I think you're mostly right about in this regard)....perhaps not destination to the extent of Eataly, but to some extent destination nonetheless. Regarless, Sandoval's concept is definitely sounding like it will be now even more destination-oriented. Agree certainly with Ardecila that it is a bit higher risk than Eataly, but if I were to place a bet here, it would be on sucess for Sandoval's concept overall, and as an an actual traffic generator at Block 37...

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ That's exactly my point in bringing up Chicago Place though. Water Tower Place, 900 N., etc. all are reasonably well designed where the focus of the building is drawing people up into it. They feature little street-front retail, but grand entrances that draw people in (think the water feature in WTP). They feature soaring, open atriums, not tight little "glorified light courts" like B37 and Chicago Place. I did not intend to imply that LEYE's concept was tantamount to the food court at Chicago Place, but to point out that putting a food court at the top of an indoor mall does almost nothing to draw people in unless that building is already drawing people in with good design and the accompanying good tenants on lower floors.

I would, however, argue that LEYE would have been no more of a draw at B37 than the crap at the top of Chicago Place simply because both building's designs discourage it. B37 might not have been quite as bad, but that is only because B37 is a shorter building and it would only take 5 minutes of escalator rides to get to the food court at B37 compared to the 15 minutes of escalator rides it took at Chicago Place.

Finally, I have to flat out disagree about the LEYE being planned to be more of a destination than Food Life. Everything I've ever heard about it indicates it was more or less a Food Life clone adapted to a different building with some updated themes. The original plan for a movie theater on the upper floors was the only real draw in the original design and might be the savior of this project if they can get a really cool theater concept in there combined with this Sandoval thing.

Then again I'll believe any tenant is moving into B37 only when I see them open their doors. We've been told half a dozen times about a theater or this or that restaurateur and nothing has materialized. Anyone can buy a building and talk shit about what they are going to do with it (as a handful of developers have with B37), but, especially when the property has a stigma like B37, I will believe it when I see it.

[ardecila]

IIRC, Food Life enjoyed quite a buzz when it first opened, and again when they reconceived it a few years later. Maybe not Eataly levels of hype but Foodlife was definitely a foodie destination for several years.

[BWChicago]

Is Sandoval's proposal something like Seven on State in Field's directly across the street? That seems like a better comparison than Chicago Place.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by BWChicago

Is Sandoval's proposal something like Seven on State in Field's directly across the street? That seems like a better comparison than Chicago Place.

I'm not comparing Sandoval with Chicago Place, I am comparing B37 with Chicago Place. I did not once mention Sandoval's concept being anything like Chicago Place. I said I don't see much of a difference between the ORIGINAL design of B37 with the LEYE concept and Chicago Place other than the fact that Chicago Place somehow managed to be even worse by being twice as tall.

[BWChicago]

But the food court at Chicago Place WAS mainstream fast food and it WAS pretty successful, if not successful at propping up the rest of the mall. The LEYE concept and the Sandoval concept differ somewhat but both sound more similar to Seven on State than Chicago Place, and B37 is gonna be harder to bypass on the way to the food court than Chicago Place was.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by BWChicago

But the food court at Chicago Place WAS mainstream fast food and it WAS pretty successful, if not successful at propping up the rest of the mall. The LEYE concept and the Sandoval concept differ somewhat but both sound more similar to Seven on State than Chicago Place, and B37 is gonna be harder to bypass on the way to the food court than Chicago Place was.

Well aren't we just going in circles again. When did I ever say the LEYE concept would be a failure? (I didn't say it would be a success either, so no one respond with some comment about me saying it would be a resounding effect since apparently everyone keeps missing my points here) I only said that Block 37 would not get the foottraffic it needs to improve from its sorry state from the original LEYE concept just as how Chicago Place was not a successful mall because of its food court.

B37 needs a BIG draw up top if it will ever be successful because most people don't even seem to know they can go inside that building let alone that there is retail inside. It frankly looks like it might just be a giant parking podium from outside and there are no distinguishing entrances that would suggest otherwise. I compare B37 and Chicago Place because both are commercial failures because they are massive design failures.

Now that's the last I care to think or say about B37 for the next few weeks or until the magical retail fairy comes along and revitalizes the building.

[wierdaaron]

Ref is going to call time on the food court discussion any minute now.

[denizen467]

^ Probably a good sign is when things have escalated to quotable gems like this...

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

El Wrongo, Capitano. It was not a mere food court.

Anyhow, before the whistle I'll just try and toss in two cents of comment. LVDW, did you actually spend all that time riding the Chicago Place escalators? There was an express elevator all the way up to the food court. Ah, forgotten Chicago...

[J_M_Tungsten]

Today
That building on Lake at and the highway


Adams and Aberdeen

It looks like they are moving dirt for the next phase of this one now too.

[the urban politician]

^ JM, thanks for the pics. I was beginning to bore of all that food court discussion.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ JM, thanks for the pics. I was beginning to bore of all that food court discussion.

I agree, food courts suck.

[J_M_Tungsten]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ JM, thanks for the pics. I was beginning to bore of all that food court discussion.

Haha ditto!

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Anyhow, before the whistle I'll just try and toss in two cents of comment. LVDW, did you actually spend all that time riding the Chicago Place escalators? There was an express elevator all the way up to the food court. Ah, forgotten Chicago...

Lol, one more than one occasion, yes. I did know about the elevator, but I liked checking out the dystopian emptiness of that building.

[Mikemak27]

6 story. 62 unit apartment building proposed at Grace and Ravenswood catches an earful because Trader Joe's already causes a traffic nightmare. Not sure how that is this apartment proposals fault.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140...rtment-project

[killaviews]

I imagine that meeting was like a scene from Parks and Rec.

They should make it a law so that the people that live in the new building are not allowed to drive to Trader Joes. Only people grandfathered into the neighborhood can drive to Trader Joes. And there are too many slugs in front of my house. I blame that on Trader Joes, too.

I hope the Alderman does what is right. You can't govern by 30 crazy people at a meeting.

[Link N. Parker]

I hope to GOD that Pawar approves the apartment building on Grace; it looks like a great building. I would be interested in living there, myself, actually. We need hundreds of these types of buildings, built all around the city.