Multiculturalism in Canada

[mistercorporate]

That's racistttt!!!! #MeToo

[Acajack]

Everyone is racist.

Everything is racist.

Next topic!

[urbandreamer]

If/when I become mayor of Toronto, I'm moving City Hall to the former bus bay site at Yonge and Eglinton (which is much closer to the centre of the universe) and opening a new grand public space named Diversity Square.

NPS/City Hall will be redeveloped into stupidTALL office towers and affordable housing.

[ssiguy]

$600 for the privilege of becoming a Canadian citizen sounds like a hell of a bargain to me.
Everything else in Canada has a fee so why should this be any different? If someone bitches about having to pay 3 months of cable bill to become a citizen of one of the greatest countries on the planet then they aren't worth having.

[mistercorporate]

That's sexistttt!!! #MeTooMeToo

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This post made me realize that ever since I was a kid, I've never regarded people who were or who appeared to be from other countries as being here "temporarily". I'd add this is the overwhelmingly dominant ethos here in Canada. Most everyone has this mindset. I'd say even the people who'd like to see fewer or no immigrants or would want them to go away, actually have the same view - that they're all here permanently for better or worse.

I think this is a marked difference between Canada and many other countries.

Generally speaking, non-Whites in wealthy White countries are viewed as immigrants and Whites in non-White countries are viewed as expats. It's more rooted in assumptions of the person immigrating.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by north 42

Well it does cost money to process applications, so they should at least cover some of the costs themselves!

Absolutely. There has to be a fee, if only to weed out fake or unnecessary claims.

Imagine the workload of an admissions counselor who had to review applications to a university program if the cost of applying was nothing?

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

True, but the cost of processing shouldn't change that much within a span of year (and additionally, countries vary a bit in the application fee they charge), so the cost probably does play a role in "gate-keeping" or controlling desired number of applicants.

It's like when the US began charging something like $2,000 for revoking your US citizenship, ostensibly to cover "processing fees".

Just another way for nativists to erect barriers to shore up their privileges.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

$600 for the privilege of becoming a Canadian citizen sounds like a hell of a bargain to me.
Everything else in Canada has a fee so why should this be any different? If someone bitches about having to pay 3 months of cable bill to become a citizen of one of the greatest countries on the planet then they aren't worth having.

Says the person who paid $0 and was simply born in this country due to no merit of his own.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Says the person who paid $0 and was simply born in this country due to no merit of his own.

How much do you think it should cost? I had to have my citizenship "bought" like that, and the fee processing argument makes pretty good sense to me.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Says the person who paid $0 and was simply born in this country due to no merit of his own.

Quite correct as I was BORN here just as they didn't pay a fee in their native country for their citizenship because they were born there. Seems ultimately fair to me.

I think the fee should be at least $1000 per person and also apply to landed immigrants and refugees. If someone has the financial ability to fly into Canada {which the vast majority do} then they have the financial ability to pay a fee. If someone can't afford a basic fee to live in the country as a citizen or LI then they shouldn't be let in as clearly they have no skills coming with them, little valuable work experience, and cannot provide for themselves.

For refugees, they should too have to pay via their sponsor or when brought in enmasse like from Syria be given a generous amount of time to pay it back. Nothing is free in this world and the Immigration Department should be self-financing as these people have not contributed anything to the nation's finances before getting here and yet will immediately enjoy all the benefits of our social, economic, and physical infrastructure.

[Acajack]

I think the fee for becoming a Canadian citizen should be closely rated to the actual cost of the procedure from beginning to end.

I don't think it should be a cash cow for the government but it shouldn't be totally free either.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think the fee for becoming a Canadian citizen should be closely rated to the actual cost of the procedure from beginning to end.

I don't think it should be a cash cow for the government but it shouldn't be totally free either.

Isn't cost recovery more or less what the current fee structure is supposed to represent?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Generally speaking, non-Whites in wealthy White countries are viewed as immigrants and Whites in non-White countries are viewed as expats. It's more rooted in assumptions of the person immigrating.

I think although this is the general trend, I'd imagine that it's not solely race but culture/wealth.

For example, if racial minorities within wealthy countries (eg. an African American or British Pakistani, or Chinese Canadian) moved abroad to a developing country but spoke English (or French!) natively, and did not have an African or Asian accent, they'd be called expats too.

Although, I'd imagine as countries get wealthier they'd start to be seen as less sending "immigrants" and sending "expats" more. For example, when Japan was poor, many might assume Japanese people abroad were planning to be immigrants, but now Japanese expats, business people, tourists, exchange students are more salient in the minds of westerners than first generation Japanese immigrants looking for a better life.

Perhaps as developing countries get wealthier (and many more western countries have native-born minorities) the stereotype of immigrant vs. expat will change.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think the fee for becoming a Canadian citizen should be closely rated to the actual cost of the procedure from beginning to end.

I don't think it should be a cash cow for the government but it shouldn't be totally free either.

When you start charging money you open the door for a fee to be treated like a cash cow. This is actually a bad incentive in the long run, because the short-term cash clouds the long-term planning vision.

I think Canada should take a long view on immigration, and look at the costs and benefits from a demographic perspective (i.e. admit that there's uncertainty on an individual level but do things that make sense on average). Once you do this, whether or not you charge the $600 fee doesn't seem so important. We have some immigrants who generate enormous positive economic impact in Canada as they do skilled work here for decades. We have other classes meanwhile like investors that were sometimes treated like a short-term money grab, probably are not worth it in the long run, and should not exist. We probably also want to admit some people on humanitarian grounds; charging these people a little bit of money is strange.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

I think although this is the general trend, I'd imagine that it's not solely race but culture/wealth.

For example, if racial minorities within wealthy countries (eg. an African American or British Pakistani, or Chinese Canadian) moved abroad to a developing country but spoke English (or French!) natively, and did not have an African or Asian accent, they'd be called expats too.

I'm an Indo-Canadian living in the US. Everyone assumes I'm an immigrant or that I otherwise want to immigrate when I'm just working here for a few years and intend on going back to Canada.

But I agree, there's a lot of nuance there and I anticipate things will change as the relative wealth of countries evolves.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

I'm an Indo-Canadian living in the US. Everyone assumes I'm an immigrant or that I otherwise want to immigrate when I'm just working here for a few years and intend on going back to Canada.

But I agree, there's a lot of nuance there and I anticipate things will change as the relative wealth of countries evolves.

OK, now that I think about it, being African or Asian descent from a western country doesn't always shield one from stereotypes applied to non-westerners.

As I posted in my other thread, I recall reading in the news that even people as famous as Samuel L. Jackson and Magic Johnson, when shopping in Italy were even stereotyped in prejudiced ways based on their appearance and assumed to be "immigrants".

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...-a7905026.html

The famous intellectual WEB Du Bois wrote over a century ago, that "the color line belts the world".

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Everyone is racist.

Everything is racist.

Next topic!

Bhahahah

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by someone123

When you start charging money you open the door for a fee to be treated like a cash cow. This is actually a bad incentive in the long run, because the short-term cash clouds the long-term planning vision.

I think Canada should take a long view on immigration, and look at the costs and benefits from a demographic perspective (i.e. admit that there's uncertainty on an individual level but do things that make sense on average). Once you do this, whether or not you charge the $600 fee doesn't seem so important. We have some immigrants who generate enormous positive economic impact in Canada as they do skilled work here for decades. We have other classes meanwhile like investors that were sometimes treated like a short-term money grab, probably are not worth it in the long run, and should not exist. We probably also want to admit some people on humanitarian grounds; charging these people a little bit of money is strange.

Often times the "cash cow" mentality that involves short term money grabbing does involve people like temporary foreign workers, foreign investors, international students, who are only here temporarily.

Immigrants who intend to stay should be seen more as investments in the country long-term just as native-born residents, not short-term sources of money to take advantage of once they're here and using the country for short term gain.

[SignalHillHiker]

Today the provincial government launched two programs aimed at international students and graduates in Newfoundland and Labrador.

One is applicable to all students at any recognized post-secondary institution in the province, which would include our private ones. It's a 12-week paid internship for STUDENTS at a small or medium-sized business in the province.

The other is "My First Newfoundland and Labrador Job". It is aimed at GRADUATES of either Memorial University or College of the North Atlantic and provides them with a 16-week paid work placement at a small or medium-sized local business.

In both cases the placements have to be in their field (of study, in the case of students). This is especially important in our society, which is very nepotistic and everyone knows someones cousin and there's social pressure to choose the Newfoundlander who lives away but is applying and wants to move home in EVERY job competition. These programs will give international students and graduates local, professional connections. They'll become a known face and name, and that will benefit them particularly strongly here.




These are the latest announcements in a series that is just... it's tens of millions worth by now, in federal and provincial money, in programs aimed at attracting, settling, and retaining immigrants in Newfoundland and Labrador.

And they seem to be working.

In 2016, we welcomed our highest number of new immigrants ever - 1,190. It's also the first year that the United Kingdom/Ireland or United States were not our #1 source country of immigrants (it was Philippines).

Our retention rates, which were typically comically awful, are now the best in Atlantic Canada in several categories - most important, families, which is around 74% of families that immigrate to Newfoundland stay here.

Newcomers rank us exceptionally highly in sense of community, and safety. They rank us average in education and employment. They rank us among the lowest in North America for sense of belonging (unfortunately, as this is exactly the opposite of born-Newfoundlanders, who rank themselves highest in North America in this category) and sense of fitting in with locals.