Proposals: Skyscrapers & Supertalls (200m +) - Page 7

Ramako · #**121** Posted **Oct 25, 2012, 3:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest

If the Oxford Office towers are indeed confirmed at 326m, then shouldn't we have another thread started: Proposals: Supertalls (300m+)
It would be good to have a few towers under discussion and then construction in there.

I think I'd prefer to just amend the title of this thread to 200m+. It's not like we've got so many supertall proposals coming through that they need their own thread.

LeftCoaster · #**122** Posted **Oct 25, 2012, 4:37 PM**

I would second that, 200m + seems sensible.

I don't think Manulife is even considering leaving their campus up on Bloor. It's a great location.

There has not been any chatter in the market about them moving, so it would have to be completely out of the blue.

DrNest · #**123** Posted **Oct 25, 2012, 4:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramako

I think I'd prefer to just amend the title of this thread to 200m+. It's not like we've got so many supertall proposals coming through that they need their own thread.

Fair point.

isaidso · #**124** Posted **Oct 25, 2012, 7:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I believe that Oxford would like to take their towers to 326 metres but I am not sure who they plan to put in them. That would take a MAJOR tenant, aka one of the big banks, and I'm not sure who they would convince to move.

Toronto's downtown vacancy rate has plummeted to 5.1% according to the Star with 10% widely viewed as a healthy equilibrium level. There are 14 office projects with 13.5 million square feet being planned. These 326m twins likely hold roughly 5-6 million square feet of that total and there are another 12 office towers on their way.

Not only is supply very tight, but the additional space wouldn't all come on stream till about 2018. The problem is that Toronto needs the space now. Rather than scrambling to find tenants, it might not be enough. What's certain is that Toronto is about to encounter a major office construction boom.

Innsertnamehere · #**125** Posted **Oct 25, 2012, 8:45 PM**

these towers will have 2.1 million square feet of office, and 600,000 square feet of residential.

LeftCoaster · #**126** Posted **Oct 25, 2012, 8:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Toronto's downtown vacancy rate has plummeted to 5.1% according to the Star with 10% widely viewed as a healthy equilibrium level. There are 14 office projects with 13.5 million square feet being planned. These 326m twins likely hold roughly 5-6 million square feet of that total and there are another 12 office towers on their way.

Not only is supply very tight, but the additional space wouldn't all come on stream till about 2018. The problem is that Toronto needs the space now. Rather than scrambling to find tenants, it might not be enough. What's certain is that Toronto is about to encounter a major office construction boom.

Keep in mind there will be nearly 5 million square feet in the downtown core under construction by the end of this year. That will not only satiate demand but since not even 50% of it is preleased major institutional developers are actually worried about a bit of a glut. There are almost no major tenants on the street right now, with the exception of one which is likely to be announced soon (think accounting firm).

The latest CBRE figures put core absorption at -144,561 sf YTD, and greater core absorbtion at -134,439sf. That's not really the leading indicator of a future office boom.

The financial core is comprised of roughly 44 million square feet, with the entire central toronto region being 66 million, so adding 13 million in 5 years would be an astounding period of growth, especially following on a past 10 years which already saw strong growth.

I really don't see how one could say an office boom is a certainty.

isaidso · #**127** Posted **Oct 26, 2012, 7:08 AM**

These firms wouldn't be building if they thought demand wasn't strong enough to warrant it. That 5 million about to break ground is surely part of that 13.5 million that's been quoted.

You mentioned that adding 13.5 million to the 44 million is tantamount to astounding growth. Office growth is certainly returning to the core from the periphery, but its not a given that its all going in the core. Even if only half of it ends up in the core, that amounts to 6.5 million+ square feet. 6.5 million added to 44 million is a 15% jump. Wouldn't you classify that as a boom?

I'm not sure how you get our GTA office vacancy rate back to a manageable 10% without building at least 10 million square feet of additional space. The only other way to get there is if lots of firms start down sizing.

Ramako · #**128** Posted **Oct 30, 2012, 3:17 PM**

According to sources at Urban Toronto Eau du Soleil has been increased from 62 and 40 storeys to 66 and 44 storeys. That should push that taller tower to around 225-230 metres.

Innsertnamehere · #**129** Posted **Oct 30, 2012, 5:53 PM**

should stick it at around 227m, assuming 2.9m ceiling heights. (the Toronto standard)

Innsertnamehere · #**130** Posted **Nov 11, 2012, 10:20 PM**

I heard from someone that the shorter tower of E condos is cancelled. No idea how accurate it is though. (the taller one is still going through from my understanding)

greg_a · #**131** Posted **Nov 11, 2012, 10:51 PM**

30 second video of available space Downtown Toronto, including buildings that are pre-leasing and under construction, from Altus InSite and Cube Cities:

• Video Link

http://www.cubecities.com

LeftCoaster · #**132** Posted **Nov 12, 2012, 4:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I heard from someone that the shorter tower of E condos is cancelled. No idea how accurate it is though. (the taller one is still going through from my understanding)

Really? That sounds suspect.

Was it not presold?

Design-mind · #**133** Posted **Nov 13, 2012, 7:21 PM**

If the Oxford towers get built to the 326 metres they are proposing, that would make them Canada's first Supertalls. That would be very exciting!

Innsertnamehere · #**134** Posted **Nov 13, 2012, 7:47 PM**

wrote that wrong. I heard that they have cancelled the shorter E condos building, and are now only marketing the taller building. no guarantee that the taller one will go through though.

LeftCoaster · #**135** Posted **Nov 13, 2012, 8:07 PM**

Wow sorry I was thinking U condos.

Ya E condos is not preselling well and will be totally redesigned/re marketed. I think I reported that on here a while back.

Ramako · #**136** Posted **Nov 13, 2012, 10:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Wow sorry I was thinking U condos.

Ya E condos is not preselling well and will be totally redesigned/re marketed. I think I reported that on here a while back.

What a shame. It was a really unique and striking design. I know it's unlikely, but let's hope that they bring the design to a project downtown.

LeftCoaster · #**137** Posted **Nov 14, 2012, 3:41 PM**

They may retain most of the design and just shorten/fatten it a lot.

My info is pretty scant, only that it has not seen much success so far and changes are coming.

I only hope it makes it and isn't just cancelled outright.

Innsertnamehere · #**138** Posted **Nov 14, 2012, 6:13 PM**

I hope the said changes are just the cutting of the shorter tower.

Ramako · #**139** Posted **Nov 19, 2012, 7:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

156 Front is going through a redesign to suit a specific tenant, we'll see if it sticks.

The new design looks amazing I might add and it is from a pretty big architect.

What the hell?... Where are all these anchor tenants coming from?

I'm going to go ahead and predict that this is the fabled Manulife Tower.

LeftCoaster · #**140** Posted **Nov 19, 2012, 7:47 PM**

Well it doesn't have a tenant so lets not get ahead of ourselves here, it is just being redesigned to attract a certain tenant. The likelyhood of it happening is still pretty low at this stage.

And no its not Manulife. I still doubt they'll ever move.