Cobalt Luxury Residences On King | 97.5 & 97.5m | 2 x 30 fl | Under Construction

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Frisina has a long history in Hamilton. They're the group behind the Main/Queen proposal.

...which was supposed to be completed in Fall 2012. Is there a shovel in the ground yet?

[thistleclub]

It's the hot-button issue that council has been mum on for the last year.

OLG Wants to Add Digital Bling to Hamilton’s Bingo Halls
(Hamilton Spectator, Joan Walters, Jan 17 2013)

The Ontario Lottery & Gaming Corp. will meet with city staff Feb. 1 to discuss putting the high-tech devices into at least the Delta Bingo Centre, which appears on the OLG’s list of bingo operators in almost 30 communities interested in the plan.


Blink and you'll miss it: "at least".

[movingtohamilton]

So if 45 King East is off the table, what other property would fall under the "at least" category?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Damn that article was depressing.

FWIW, here are the digital remnants of the award-winning Lament series.

Business Running on Empty (Hamilton Spectator, Fred Vallance-Jones, Mar 17 2001)
Life in the Shadows (Hamilton Spectator, Cheryl Stepan, Mar 19 2001)
Core Crime Linked to Drugs (Hamilton Spectator, Cheryl Stepan, Mar 19 2001)
Rotting in the Core (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 20 2001)
Heavy Tax Load Crushing Core (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 20 2001)
Downtown Tax Relief Involves Tough Choices (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 20 2001)
Don’t Bank on It (Hamilton Spectator, Rick Hughes, Mar 21 2001)
Downtown’s Heartbreak Hotel (Hamilton Spectator, Steve Buist, Mar 21 2001)
Home Builders' Plan Fizzles (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 21 2001)
Sordid Affairs (Hamilton Spectator, Fred Vallance-Jones, Mar 22 2001)
Last Call for Dirty Bars (Hamilton Spectator, Cheryl Stepan, Mar 22 2001)
Profiling Owners (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 22 2001)
Can They Fix It? (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 23, 2001)
Civic Leaders' Forum on Downtown Plans (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 23 2001)
The Crisis Downtown (Hamilton Spectator, Fred Vallance-Jones, Mar 23 2001)
Why the Downtown Matters (Hamilton Spectator, Jon Wells, Mar 24 2001)
Restoring the Core Must Start Now (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 26 2001)

[thistleclub]

From the AGCO's Criteria and Procedures for Establishing Bingo Halls:

RE-OPENING A BINGO HALL THAT HAS CLOSED

An applicant wishing to re-open a bingo hall (at the same address) that has ceased operating must submit to the Registrar, within three months of the hall’s closure, a full and complete application form and a viable business plan (including details of the proposed operation) to re-open the hall. The application shall include a letter from the Clerk of the local municipality stating that the municipality has no objection to the applicant re-opening the hall. If the business plan is approved by the Registrar, the hall must open within six months of the date of approval.

If a plan is not submitted within three months, or the bingo hall cannot begin operating within six months from the date of approval, then any application to open a hall at the same location will be considered a new hall application, and must follow the process described in section A above, including advertising the proposal and obtaining approval from the municipal council.



Technically, a re-opened bingo operation would only require a written okay from the City Clerk -- unless the operator fumbles the paperwork or fails to reopen within six months of AGCO approval, in which case the proposed relaunch must be advertised and Council would have to sign off on it.

And that's if the operation actually went out of business.

This would arguably be moot if the business was sold off before the announcement -- which, to be exact, was that "Delta Bingo Hamilton will be closing its doors." It is not impossible to imagine a scenario whereby the "closure" is a temporary time-out to re-brand/re-skin the operation. Given that Council admits to being in the dark about what's coming next, we can't entirely discount the possibility of more of the same under another name.

I mentioned Boardwalk yesterday because its Peterborough venture struck me as an unusual partnership. Delta Bingo Peterborough is co-owned by Michael Orser (President, Boardwalk Gaming & Entertainment) and Cameron Johnstone (President, Delta Bingo) and appears as a location of each company. More than that, Orser is Chair and Johnstone Vice-Chair of the Board of the Commercial Gaming Association of Ontario. As well, one of the companies in the portfolio of Larry Tanenbaum's Kilmer Van Nostrand is Penetanguishene-Huronia Bingo Inc., which has a significant interest in BG&E. That seems like a pretty high-test combination.

Or maybe it's just the perverse appeal of having Boardwalk next door to Park Place.

-

Untangling the ownership timeline, Delta Hamilton/Fort Erie/St. Catharines were listed among the Johnstone-led Delta Bingo locations in Feb 2010 but not in Feb 2011, when Delta Bingo alerted website visitors that:

Information on bingo halls in Hamilton, St. Catharines and Uncle Sams in Fort Erie are no longer available through this web site.
Be advised that these 3 Bingo halls are not affiliated with Delta Bingo Inc. Interested parties please call the hall directly for any inquiries.

Despite this, a Google search of “Uncle Sams Bingo Fort Erie” muddies things again: The top entry belongs to Delta Bingo.

[davidcappi]

Ugh seriously though, I really hope it doesn't stay as anything related to bingo.

[fizzle]

The happiness about what seemed to be a viable business shutting down, just because it's not something people on this board like, kind of bothers me. And some of the ideas...Shoppers, Walmart, etc., are pretty hilarious.

Clearly, people liked going to the thing. It doesn't exist as long as it did unless that was the case. I get a real sense of elitism reading comments on here sometimes. That only 'certain' types of people and business should be in the 'new' downtown, and anything but organic supermarkets and art galleries cheapens everything.

Did I like Delta Bingo? God no. But it filled a large space downtown and DID being people to the core. And I don't see other big business rushing in during the last 20 years to fill a commercial vacancy like they did.

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by fizzle

Clearly, people liked going to the thing. It doesn't exist as long as it did unless that was the case.

Well... clearly not enough people liked going to it. That's why they're closing, and that's why more than half the area (of the ground floor) wasn't used... it was just open space, with all the tables and chairs crammed at one end.

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by fizzle

The happiness about what seemed to be a viable business shutting down, just because it's not something people on this board like, kind of bothers me. And some of the ideas...Shoppers, Walmart, etc., are pretty hilarious.

Clearly, people liked going to the thing. It doesn't exist as long as it did unless that was the case. I get a real sense of elitism reading comments on here sometimes. That only 'certain' types of people and business should be in the 'new' downtown, and anything but organic supermarkets and art galleries cheapens everything.

Would you say the same thing about a Money Mart closing? I don't think it's elitist to celebrate the demise of a predatory gaming operation which frankly has no place being located one block from the very core of the city. I'm not sure what's so hilarious about envisioning a large, street facing drug store in the core - a service needed by everyone regardless of age or income bracket... How about an urban home building centre - Rona? That would be just amazing.

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

... How about an urban home building centre - Rona? That would be just amazing.

We definitely do not need more payday loan and cheque-cashing outlets! We need stores already suggested in this thread, especially since residential growth is happening downtown.

[CaptainKirk]

Originally Posted by fizzle

The happiness about what seemed to be a viable business shutting down, just because it's not something people on this board like, kind of bothers me. And some of the ideas...Shoppers, Walmart, etc., are pretty hilarious.

Clearly, people liked going to the thing. It doesn't exist as long as it did unless that was the case. I get a real sense of elitism reading comments on here sometimes. That only 'certain' types of people and business should be in the 'new' downtown, and anything but organic supermarkets and art galleries cheapens everything.

Did I like Delta Bingo? God no. But it filled a large space downtown and DID being people to the core. And I don't see other big business rushing in during the last 20 years to fill a commercial vacancy like they did.

It was obvious (to me anyway) that this once very nice building was not only neglected, but was also not being used properly.

Nothing against bingo halls per se, but this certainly was not a good fit for this building, and that specific, high profile location.

It was an ok situation during a bad time (downtown's low point), but that time has passed. Hamilton's downtown is well past its low point as it continues to improve.

Exciting times, with huge potential.

[Pearlstreet]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Would you say the same thing about a Money Mart closing? I don't think it's elitist to celebrate the demise of a predatory gaming operation which frankly has no place being located one block from the very core of the city. I'm not sure what's so hilarious about envisioning a large, street facing drug store in the core - a service needed by everyone regardless of age or income bracket... How about an urban home building centre - Rona? That would be just amazing.

I don't think speaking like an elitist is a problem, there is a void of that here. lol

Yes, Rona, Home Hardware, improvement related something...? Something that services the area 24/7 and doesn't close to create a dead spot in the core again.

[davidcappi]

I'd love an urban Shoppers Drug Mart there, since the only drug store in the area is in Jackson and it closes really early. Plus as someone stated earlier, Shoppers Drug Mart is beginning to carry more food items due to their partnership with Loblaws. It really is a service that people would regularly use, as well as providing jobs for people in the downtown core.

But literally anything would be nice.

[NortheastWind]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Frisina Construction (later Frisina Group), led by Ralph's father Al, built the Century 21 building then retreated to the suburbs. In recent years, the company knocked down a Victorian at the elbow of Haymarket Street (you can watch it disappear in Google Maps Street View) and announced plans to build a three-storey, 27,000 square foot office complex on the SW corner of Queen and Main.

Not sure if this would be the same Ralph Frisina who works as a broker for Royal LePage.

The Frasina Group website indicates that the development at Main and Queen will be their new head office: "A new retail/office development at Main and Queen will soon begin. It is now offering space to various businesses and it will house the Frisina Group's new head office. This marks a return to the opportunities we at Frisina Group have always seen in Hamilton’s downtown development."

[fizzle]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Would you say the same thing about a Money Mart closing? I don't think it's elitist to celebrate the demise of a predatory gaming operation which frankly has no place being located one block from the very core of the city. I'm not sure what's so hilarious about envisioning a large, street facing drug store in the core - a service needed by everyone regardless of age or income bracket... How about an urban home building centre - Rona? That would be just amazing.

A bingo hall is predatory???

Hyperbole perhaps?

And yes, I'd say the same thing about a Money Mart, although that would be one heck of an enormous Money Mart. The core needs businesses, full stop. You might not like some of them, but it's sort of irrelevant if people frequent them.

I think one of those limited scope Sobeys would be perfect for that spot. But I won't lose sleep if in fact they relaunch with e-bingo. Everyone has these grand ideas, but no one puts their money where their mouth is.

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by fizzle

...Everyone has these grand ideas, but no one puts their money where their mouth is.

Oh for fcuk sake! People have great/grand ideas all the time, regardless of whether they can personally finance them. The people on this forum, myself included, want the downtown to prosper. So we exchange ideas on what businesses would be a good fit for a revitalizing Hamilton core.

This ideas-exchange on the building is also happening on Facebook groups, in Twitter, and in other social media spaces.

None of us is ignorant of the fact that the future of 45 King East is not in our hands personally. My worry is that the building will be boarded up for a while and then relaunched as an e-gaming site.

[coalminecanary]

Maybe it should be a cockfighting arena. to each his own entertainment preference!

[fizzle]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

Oh for fcuk sake! People have great/grand ideas all the time, regardless of whether they can personally finance them. The people on this forum, myself included, want the downtown to prosper. So we exchange ideas on what businesses would be a good fit for a revitalizing Hamilton core.

I think sometimes the ideas don't look beyond the initial excitement. If it was such a slam dunk to have a grocery store or a big SDM in a space like that, don't you think those companies would be all over it already?

So until that day comes, ANY business that wants to invest should be welcomed with open arms. Who am I to dictate what 'belongs' downtown and what doesn't? I'm not risking my money. I get a bit riled up when so much disdain is out there is all.

The ideas are often very good, but veer pretty closely to gentrification oftentimes. But it's ok, because those people can find cheap housing by the husk of Stelco, right?

Delta Bingo has had a stigma associated with it for YEARS, and for what reason? Because it doesn't make downtown look like Queen West in Toronto? Because it's entertainment for older folks? Poorer folks?

I'm a firm believer in housing first, and the rest will follow. No one will invest dollars into high population density business without high population density. And that population density needs to be inclusive of current residents. City Hall should be incentivizing the hell out of mixed use commercial/residential development, and full day service out of the train station should be priority number one for the city. Heck, there should be more train stations in the city extending east, serving the entire city.

But I've rambled now.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by fizzle

So until that day comes, ANY business that wants to invest should be welcomed with open arms. Who am I to dictate what 'belongs' downtown and what doesn't? I'm not risking my money. I get a bit riled up when so much disdain is out there is all.

ANY business? Like say seedy strip clubs? Or porno theatres? Adult video stores?

Seriously, some businesses scare away other businesses and hurt more than they help. Personnally I think the bingo hall was a bit tacky, but I've never jumped on the hate wagon like some people here. However I also want the downtown to improve, empty buildings are bad for the people who live there and some mild gentrification would probably actually help the people out by providing better services and new employment options.

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by fizzle

... If it was such a slam dunk to have a grocery store or a big SDM in a space like that, don't you think those companies would be all over it already?
...

Yes, I do...in a more-or-less rational free-enterprise environment we see in other cities. But Hamilton has many irrational aspects. From what I'm learning, commercial property owners get tax relief if their buildings are boarded up. Other developers play the city for years, apparently (some company called Wilson-Blanchard?).

I can easily imagine the mindset of the owner of 45 King E, who may be spurning purchase offers since "we're gonna make it big when we get that casino license. Meantime we'll get tax easements on the building when the plywood goes up".

Yes, I do want King Street to look and be prosperous. It's the main artery of the downtown core and like every modern city it needs to reflect that fact.

Like you, I want housing. I want it in the core. I want the Connaught development to sell out quickly, and a whole pile of new housing in the downtown, owned or rented by people who come from everywhere. Indeed, good business will flow from increasing density.

So NO, I don't want a $hithole bingo hall on the main artery, King Street, or on any other street in the downtown.