atlanta's density

[john3eblover]

Originally Posted by MarketsWork

The New York model of density which uber-urbanists among us seem to covet does not exist because of urban planning or government action. Planners and bureaucrats certainly helped to shape New York's density, but they did not cause it in the first place. The force of demand necessitated density.

Older cities like New York and Boston, which matured before the advent of the automobile, were densely developed to accomodate pedestrians and horses. Their subways were merely a natural improvement upon feet and buggies, and made it easier for those cities to densify even further as more and more people chased less and less land. Newer cities like Atlanta grew up with cars, which provided far greater range than horses, and were not limited to compact development. Easy access to abundant (and thus cheap) land was almost universally considered a blessing -- and probably will continue to be viewed favorably by a majority of Atlantans for as long as such space and freedom is attainable.

Density in the modern era is caused by scarcity of land. Where land is in greatest demand -- and thus most valuable -- the market dictates the densest development. Atlanta still has plenty of room for expansion and infill, and still enjoys the luxury of lower land prices and breathing room. What you deride as "'cute' dense 'urban' pockets... so that suburbanites can pretend they aren't in the suburbs" actually underscores the luxury that we Atlantans still have something New Yorkers havent enjoyed for many decades -- plenty of land. Atlanta is not New York, and will not be for a very long time. I say "Vive Le Difference!"

It was just a beautiful post to read. Well said man.

[ATLksuGUY]

Totally agree. However, dont you think cities like Atlanta are in for a big change in the next 20- 30 years due to rising gas prices, traffic, pollution with the green movement, coupled with the rising trend of higher percentage of urban population vs. rural.

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by ATLksuGUY

Totally agree. However, dont you think cities like Atlanta are in for a big change in the next 20- 30 years due to rising gas prices, traffic, pollution with the green movement, coupled with the rising trend of higher percentage of urban population vs. rural.

I don't think Atlanta is going to change fundamentally. There will likely be continued infill inside I-285 and increasing urbanization along the Peachtree spine. Many of the suburban centers will become increasingly urban, too.

But we are a quintessentially suburban and automobile based city, and that's what drives growth here (and in many other cities). Folks have been saying since the 1970s that fuel prices would force people back to the city yet the exact opposite has occurred. We've already massively subsidized suburban infrastructure and directed transportation, education and land use plans to foster suburban growth in the future.

In my personal opinion the sprawl based lifestyle is not sustainable in the long run. Nonetheless, many people are invested in keeping things going the way they are and I don't believe there's much likelihood of change until we hit the wall.

[ATLksuGUY]

Andrea what you said makes perfect sense. However I just feel that the proportion of tall/midrise office and condo buildings compared to the actual density of the city, is not the average proportion that the rest of the country/world fits into.

Its like Atlanta just sprouted and the actuall meat of the city, midrise/smallrise apartments and condos with shops never quite came, and everybody like'd their white pickett fence with 3 bedrooms and decided, "well I'll just drive instead of moving".

[alleystreetindustry]

why can't people understand i don't want atlanta to be nyc, i am stating in the better interest for the city's future, we need urban growth, esp. in the city around peachtree. and that during the construction of this 'boom', i would prefer the buildings to be based off of classic architecture, something similar to new yorks. i simply want whats best for her citizens and her environment, because atlanta sure as hell deserves the best.

[Toxostoma Rufum]

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

why can't people understand i don't want atlanta to be nyc, i am stating in the better interest for the city's future, we need urban growth, esp. in the city around peachtree. and that during the construction of this 'boom', i would prefer the buildings to be based off of classic architecture, something similar to new yorks. i simply want whats best for her citizens and her environment, because atlanta sure as hell deserves the best.

You also wrote:
i would create buildings of 150ft.-300ft. height with the look and feel of new york.

Sounds like you just want it to look like NYC, but I understand that what you really mean is that you want quality first and foremost. I don't want us to go retro/classic I've no interest in Gotham on the Chattahoochee...ideally i'd like to see us building things you don't necessarily see in other cities: or at least things that have an Atlanta flavor to them.

[alleystreetindustry]

You also wrote:
i would create buildings of 150ft.-300ft. height with the look and feel of new york.

Sounds like you just want it to look like NYC, but I understand that what you really mean is that you want quality first and foremost. I don't want us to go retro/classic I've no interest in Gotham on the Chattahoochee...ideally i'd like to see us building things you don't necessarily see in other cities: or at least things that have an Atlanta flavor to them.

true. i do want the quality that new york has. what i meant was that i want dense growth in atlanta similar to new york's, chicago's, san francisco's, etc. i truly don't want atlanta to be a new york, i just want the architecture of a new york. but in getting the architecture of new york, you also lose the unique qualities you find in that city. i guess you could say i just want atlanta to grow up, but in a way healthy and unique to only her.

[MarketsWork]

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

i truly don't want atlanta to be a new york, i just want the architecture of a new york.

I also prefer the classic architecture that defined New York's growth in the first half of the 20th Century. But that is a reflection of when New York was built, and that time has largely past. Today's predominant building styles and methods reflect different tastes and -- not unimportantly -- necessary accomodation of today's out-of-sight construction costs. But take heart in the slow but sure rhythms of change... Ties and lapels narrow and widen, and skirts lengths rise and fall. In a few short decades, Atlanta will have the look of an established metropolis, boasting the finest architecture of several differnt periods. It just takes time...