HOMELESS IN ATLANTA, social/economic/cultural trap or personal choice?

[atl2phx]

given the significant and growing issue of homelessness in the US and atlanta, and given the frequency that the topic comes up in other atlanta threads, it seems reasonable to have a thread to discuss the issue seperately without weighing down or distracting conversation in other threats.

[atl2phx]

c'mon folks, don't be reticent.

i know it's not sexy but it seems like the atlanta crew is ready to drop bombs on the homeless whenever the topic comes up in virtually every other atlanta thread. this is a great opportunity to have constructive conversation regarding the issue in a space that's dedicated to the topic.

so whattaya think?

is being homeless in atlanta or any other US metropolitan area a personal choice as some seem to think?

or....

is being homeless in atlanta or any other US metropolitan area the result of a complex set of socially constructed mechanisms often reinforced by one or multiple political, healthcare, educational, media and religious institutions?

or....

other?

[AtlMidtowner]

Of course homelessness is a personal choice....

Dont a lot of people look forward to sleeping in 20 degree Fahrenheit weather in the winter, never knowing from where or when their next meal or liquor will come from, living in luxury under the Williams Street Bridge, and being scorned by almost every human being that walks by them? Its definitely something lots of people aspire to and are happy when they achieve this milestone in life

[dante2308]

Some of them are mentally challenged and didn't have the benefit of someone to take care of them. Some of them have been driven to mental ruin by drugs or have become dependent on expensive drugs. Some of them were discharged from prison without any real prospects of reintegrating. Some of them weren't able to integrate after coming back from war. Some of them gave up on a normal life for whatever reason.

I don't see in the list above any reason to hate them and I don't see any benefit of blanketing blame on all of them when each individual story is different. The topic of this thread assumes too many generalizations. Society isn't to blame in a broad sense either. Maybe you should ask a homeless person why they are homeless?

[cybele]

I've known several people who went from "normal" to homeless status. It really doesn't take long in today's world where many middle class folks are living payday to payday. Lose a job, experience an accident or an illness, have a run in with the law, and things can fall apart quickly. A lot of people don't have family or other support networks to fall back on either. And once you are homeless I think it's often hard to become un-homeless, for numerous reasons.

I don't know the solution is but I sure wish there was a better way to get people back on their feet.

[Terminus]

Based on the concerns expressed in the thread that spawned this one, I do not think the discussion should be framed as pro or anti the homeless, but rather about personal actions such as:

• Walking casually in the middle of the street, with no regard for traffic signals.
• Aggressive pan-handling.
• Scamming people.
• Littering.
• Public obscenity
• Shoplifting and other crimes.

I believe that those who blame the homeless for everything are wrong, but so are those who absolve them and street people (a different subject altogether, IMO) of any responsibility for their actions.

Furthermore, I do not believe that most problems commonly attributed to the homeless are truly caused by them, but rather by those masquerading as such. I say this as an 11 year resident of Downtown who has seen the same people, day in and day out, preying on Atlanta's public (including many true homeless) in a well-thought, well-crafted way. These people are criminals and deserve to be treated as such. They are the problem, not those we see sleeping on parch benches or over steam grates.

If I were dictator of Atlanta I would bring this distinction into public discourse. I would provide harsher punishment and forced public service for the criminals who disrespect our laws, civic realm, and people, while providing supports and programs for those who truly need it, particularly the mentally ill and chemically addicted. My plan would provide a chance for people who want to improve their lot and become productive members of society, but those who chose not to do so would not be treated appropriately.

[Fiorenza]

Terminus, your points make perfect sense, but unfortunately our cities including Atlanta have absolutely no plan or concept how to separate the criminals from the truly needy, show tough love and provide semi-involuntary rehab. The churches and other interested community organizations could be invited by city political leaders to participate in planning sessions, and methodology agreed upon for classification and assignment of human resource into valuable community improvement for which they could be provided vouchers for housing and other non-toxic personal needs. But, pinch me, this is America. It won't ever happen. We'll continue to see misutilization of our commercial areas in a way that continues the disintegration of our economy and quality of life.

[AtlMidtowner]

Homelessness is a very complex issue.
Do many engage in criminal activity? Yes, of course....most petty due to desparation, but ocassionally violent. Most car breakin in Midtown and downtown are perpetrated by homeless. It is quite frustrating to have a $200 window smashed for $2 in change to be stolen!

Ignoring the problem as most Americans do doesnt change the problem, nor shipping them off to another part of town. How many people are aware that Cobb County, home of the religious zeolots and bigots, does not even have a homeless shelter. The Churches build mega buildings, post people at abortion clinics, but dont even care for the homeless and mentally ill!
Last February when it was in the 20s at night, two homeless people entered one of my office buildings and slept there several nights. The first two nights I looked the other way....but then some tenants noticed them so I had to get rid of them. I spent quite a bit of time to locate a homeless shelter in Cobb, to find out there is not real one there. I then offered the homeless guy a ride to downtown Atlanta to a homeless shelter, and he said "no, you know what there is in Atlanta" meaning he would rather sleep in 20 degree cold then sleep in a room full of black people.
Then I was "upset" and told him to leave, as my building was not a homeless shelter and tenants had complained.
I own several buildings and do lots of renovation work constantly as well as janitorial and landscaping......would I give the guy a job.......DEFINITELY NOT!!
Well, if someone like me would not give this guy a job.....who would? In the condition that this elderly guy was in, noone would give him a job....NOONE!! I am sure he is still homeless comitting petty crime somewhere in Cobb.

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by AtlMidtowner

Homelessness is a very complex issue.
Do many engage in criminal activity? Yes, of course....most petty due to desparation, but ocassionally violent. Most car breakin in Midtown and downtown are perpetrated by homeless. It is quite frustrating to have a $200 window smashed for $2 in change to be stolen!

Ignoring the problem as most Americans do doesnt change the problem, nor shipping them off to another part of town. How many people are aware that Cobb County, home of the religious zeolots and bigots, does not even have a homeless shelter. The Churches build mega buildings, post people at abortion clinics, but dont even care for the homeless and mentally ill!
Last February when it was in the 20s at night, two homeless people entered one of my office buildings and slept there several nights. The first two nights I looked the other way....but then some tenants noticed them so I had to get rid of them. I spent quite a bit of time to locate a homeless shelter in Cobb, to find out there is not real one there. I then offered the homeless guy a ride to downtown Atlanta to a homeless shelter, and he said "no, you know what there is in Atlanta" meaning he would rather sleep in 20 degree cold then sleep in a room full of black people.
Then I was "upset" and told him to leave, as my building was not a homeless shelter and tenants had complained.
I own several buildings and do lots of renovation work constantly as well as janitorial and landscaping......would I give the guy a job.......DEFINITELY NOT!!
Well, if someone like me would not give this guy a job.....who would? In the condition that this elderly guy was in, noone would give him a job....NOONE!! I am sure he is still homeless comitting petty crime somewhere in Cobb.

You could have dropped the homeless guy off at one of the increasing number of foreclosed homes in east Cobb (at least he will with his own kind). Then it would've show that those pretentious east Cobb residents that they can become homeless very quickly.

[David1502]

[QUOTE=AtlMidtowner;4408499]

I spent quite a bit of time to locate a homeless shelter in Cobb, to find out there is not real one there. QUOTE]

I am not sure you are correct in your assesment that there is no homeless shelter in Cobb County. Years ago, I had some dealings with the Elizabeth Inn, a homeless shelter located on the north side of Marietta at the intersection of US 41 (Cobb Parkway) and Highway 5/Canton Rd. The Elizabeth Inn is a part of MUST Ministries, the umbrella organization for most social service ministries in Cobb.

Something to keep in mind is that outside of the true "Downtown" or urban core of a metro area (nor just Atlanta) it is unusual to see homeless shelters. There are many reasons for this. First of all, the downtown has greater accessibility to services, (e.g. Grady Hospital) and public transit (MARTA) as well as greater job opportunities. Keep in mind, many of the homeless are working during the day, but are not making enough to cover housing. Most shelters require those staying there to leave in the morning to either work or walk the streets.

Cobb County is no different from other suburban counties when it comes to providing shelters for the homeless. You don't see a network of shelters in Downtown Decatur, Douglasville, Lawrenceville or Roswell. I.E. No need to single out Cobb in this area. Apparently you have a personal animus towards Cobb and are seeking to express that.

[cybele]

I agree that Cobb doesn't deserve to be singled out for criticism but I honestly don't see why homeless shelters wouldn't work in Marietta or other cities around the metro area. Marietta has a superb, large hospital downtown, and it's at least as walkable and pedestrian friendly as downtown Atlanta. You've also got CCT, with the Breeze card and easy transfers to MARTA. I can't specifically address employment but it's hard to envision that there are a whole lot of jobs for homeless people in downtown Atlanta that wouldn't be equally available in Marietta.

I could see a similar situation in Decatur. You've got great medical care, excellent walkability, terrific transit access and many employment opportunities.

It seems to me that there would also be more greenspace options, better schools and lower costs in some of these smaller towns. For me personally downtown Atlanta feels like a considerably more daunting place than downtown Decatur or Marietta. They are both really nice, pleasant urban environments.

[AtlMidtowner]

Originally Posted by David1502

[
I spent quite a bit of time to locate a homeless shelter in Cobb, to find out there is not real one there. QUOTE]

I am not sure you are correct in your assesment that there is no homeless shelter in Cobb County. Years ago, I had some dealings with the Elizabeth Inn, a homeless shelter located on the north side of Marietta at the intersection of US 41 (Cobb Parkway) and Highway 5/Canton Rd. The Elizabeth Inn is a part of MUST Ministries, the umbrella organization for most social service ministries in Cobb.

Elizabeth Inn in not a homeless shelter in the sense that it does not give shelter for chronically homeless. When I finally called the police when the homeless guy returned, the Marietta Police officer, gave me the number to Elizabeth Inn. Elizabeth Inn only gives shelter for a night or two and then the homeless are thrown out in the street again until the Marietta Police bring them to the shelter again. It is a bit exagerated to say there is absolutely no place to go ever, but it isnt what most people think of as a homeless shelter.

I was not singling out Cobb County. It just happens that I have two larger office buildings in Cobb where in one I had problem with homeless. I actually think an alcoholic employee of one of my tenants was fired and became homeless and then showed the homeless guy my building!! Unlike the downtown area, the Cobb homeless have nowhere to go or seek help at all, so most end up going to downtown. I am sure most suburban counties are the same.

Unless first treated and counselled, no businessman in their right mind would hire most personality types of homeless people. Of course it is a trap, not a real choice

[briantech]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Yeah, because we've seen how well special purpose public housing has worked in Atlanta. It doesn't breed unemployment and crime at all, and wasn't considered a massive failure or anything.

What would work best would be to decentralize homeless shelters. Split it up into several smaller shelters, and institute programs to help pull people out of homelessness.

So are you saying you are indeed in favor of housing the homeless everyday in the public libraries?

[cybele]

With all these tens of thousands of foreclosures around the area you'd think the homeless population would be going through the roof. Where are all these folks going when they get kicked out of their homes? Seems this would be a great opportunity for some enterprising developer.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by gttx

I don't want to start an argument about homelessness in this construction thread, but your view is incredibly short-sited and ignores most of the real challenges associated with the problem of homelessness.

How do you get a job to begin with? Even at a fast food restaurant, you need to look presentable, which means you need to shower, have a change of clothes, etc. And how do you get to work? In Atlanta, you can't live anywhere cheap unless you have a car. House-car-job are all interrelated, and just pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, with none of these things, is nearly impossible for anyone, not to mention for the type of person who ends up on the street.

Of course, most homeless are either (1) mentally or physically handicapped, (2) a product of homeless parents, or (3) addicting to drugs. Breaking that cycle, given the myriad things holding them down, is a difficult proposition indeed, and not something that you can just explain away by challenging people to work harder. Sorry.

Very nice post...it's very sad to see that some people actually think that the homeless are all drug addicts and criminals. That isn't even remotely true - there are a wide range of reasons that people end up without a place to live, many of which have nothing to do with drugs and/or crime.

[Snakebit]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Very nice post...it's very sad to see that some people actually think that the homeless are all drug addicts and criminals. That isn't even remotely true - there are a wide range of reasons that people end up without a place to live, many of which have nothing to do with drugs and/or crime.

Honestly, if you want to get into percentages we can but I would be willing to bet that 90% have a criminal history and a history with drugs. While there are other factors in play obviously, they also do share some responsibility for their station in life. Do not twist what I'm saying to mean that they do not deserve help because of course they do. They also should not be a blackeye in the middle of our city. There is nothing wrong with putting the shelter in an area (near garnett station downtown) where its impact will be less felt. That specific shelter on Peachtree Street is a blight and needs to be removed, not shelters elsewhere or shelters in general. Downtown has plenty of vacant buildings where a shelter could be placed.

[sevensixtwo]

yeah... like being highly unintelligent.

[jddar]

Originally Posted by Snakebit

.... Downtown has plenty of vacant buildings where a shelter could be placed.

I'd counter that Downtown has more than its fair share. Why not put a few in downtown Marietta, Lawrenceville, Douglasville, Conyers, etc.? Downtown Atlanta shouldn't have to bear the burden for the entire Metro Region.

To get back on topic, the 12th Street development is sure looking good. To liven up this thread, could some kind person with a camera take a few pics.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

yeah... like being highly unintelligent.

This might be true, but the real cause is certainly a more nuanced combination of many different factors.

I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent (having received an education at Atlanta's finest institution, as well as an Ivy League graduate program), but I give most of the credit to where I am now to my family. Without a support network, I might be a few paychecks from homelessness, or totally unable to pay for education, or have no place to turn for just a little bit of help, should I ever need it. For people with no family, or only family struggling with poverty, these networks are nonexistent. And unfortunately America is no longer a place where anyone on the street can pull themselves up from their bootstraps to succeed. Where else is there to turn but homelessness?

Is homelessness a problem in Atlanta? Absolutely. But we will never solve it by moving the homeless around to this shelter or that, or shipping them to another city. It must involve some combination of a detailed understanding of who they are, why they ended up on the street, and how they can be helped, whether through government programs, non-profit support, or families.

Until that happens, I will stick to enjoying the newly-lit crown of 12th and midtown. Looks like a big hat.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by gttx

This might be true, but the real cause is certainly a more nuanced combination of many different factors.

I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent (having received an education at Atlanta's finest institution, as well as an Ivy League graduate program), but I give most of the credit to where I am now to my family. Without a support network, I might be a few paychecks from homelessness, or totally unable to pay for education, or have no place to turn for just a little bit of help, should I ever need it. For people with no family, or only family struggling with poverty, these networks are nonexistent. And unfortunately America is no longer a place where anyone on the street can pull themselves up from their bootstraps to succeed. Where else is there to turn but homelessness?

Is homelessness a problem in Atlanta? Absolutely. But we will never solve it by moving the homeless around to this shelter or that, or shipping them to another city. It must involve some combination of a detailed understanding of who they are, why they ended up on the street, and how they can be helped, whether through government programs, non-profit support, or families.

Until that happens, I will stick to enjoying the newly-lit crown of 12th and midtown. Looks like a big hat.

gttx....well said, however, the intended recipient seems to be one dimensional and is therefore unlikely or unwilling to digest anything past your first line, 'that might be true...'.