When will the province build a bridge to Vancouver Island??

[wrenegade]

No. The main span would likely be somewhere between 18-25km, and the longest bridge in the world is 54km, in Thailand, althrough it is mostly (totally?) over land. The longest cross-sea bridge, the Hangzhou Bridge in China is 35km long.

It would certainly be the most significant because of the depth of the water. Although the Bridge of the Horns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_of_the_Horns) has a much better chance of being built and would likely be the most spectacular bridge in the world.

[twoNeurons]

A much better solution would be a new terminal at the south side of the airport, and another one on Galliano Island.

Two 1500m bridges between Galliano and Salt Spring.
One 1200m bridge between Salt Spring and Vancouver Island.

From the terminal (including bridges), you would have an additional 25-28km of road needed on both the Mainland and the islands.

Because you'd end up further north, however, it would add a total of 45km of more Road.

The ferry trip would be 32km instead of 45km. Given that the last few kilometres have to be at slower speeds through the channel, I think you could probably due the run in 45-50min.

The extra 45km would mean another 30min. into Victoria, but that would be made up with less time needed on the Vancouver side.

Of course, Galliano and Salt-Spring may turn into a commuter's paradise, but I don't think it would be as bad as people imagine.

In addition, there are already direct ferries to these Islands FROM the Mainland, so they can't really say they're any less able to be a suburb now as it is.

What's MORE likely, is that you provide a better connection between these two islands and main Island.

Losers in this scenario:

• The People on Galliano and Salt Spring. You'd see more people living there... but mostly people from Vancouver Island. The increased Ferry frequency may get some mainlanders, as well.
• People in Sydney. While the Terminal would likely still be around to serve the Gulf Islands (as it's closer to Victoria), they would need to travel 30min. to get to the Mainland.

Mixed:

• People in Tsawassen. They have to travel 30minutes to get to the terminal. But they no longer have ferry traffic.
• Tourists. Easy transfer from the Airport directly to Ferries. But the most beautiful part of the trip would be missed. There would be other ferries they could take, mind you.
• Victorians. Overall better service. Shorter trip time, but less time spent on the Ferry. That means more time spent in traffic getting to the Ferry.

The winners:

• Vancouver Islander (Main island). Better access to Salt Spring and Galliano, and the ability to move there and commute into Victoria.
• Richmondites. Well, duh.
• Transit users. It would be very close to the Canada Line. As in Shuttle bus distance.
• Metro Vancouverites. The travel time would be reduced. The frequency of the ferries could be increased.
• BC Ferries. More efficient use of Ferries and no need to slow down as there is no travel through the channel. Less Dangerous as well. Able to increase frequency on the most popular route without adding more ships. They may also be able to remove the
• Nanaimonians. An extra terminal south of the city, with a close link to YVR a short ferry ride away.

Thoughts?

If you looking at a map, the Galliano Terminal would be on the North end of the Island. Though it could be located at the existing one as well. Between Galliano and Salt-Spring it would island hop to a small seemingly uninhabited island in the middle of the Straight.

[amor de cosmos]

deleted

[Blake]

A bridge might actually make sense, and I wish the government would actually consider conducting a serious feasibility study on the matter, instead of a bunch of rhetorical scenarios.

Cost: If the $30 billion estimated price tag is correct, based on current ferry traffic numbers, what would toll rates need to be set at and could it be paid in full in at least 50 years? It would need to be comparable to existing ferry prices. If anybody wants to run some numbers, be my guest.

Engineering: What technology would need to be used to make the bridge structurally sound? Critics are saying it's not possible, but Henry Ford's engineers also told him building a V8 was impossible.

Need: Is there an economic need to support such a project? What would be the economic benefit in the transportation and tourism sectors? I can't fathom there not being somewhat of an economic need to connect a metro area of 500,000 to a metro area of 2.5 million and the rest of it's country. Especially compared to the Confederation Bridge serving PEI's tiny population, or the Pontchitarain Causeway's serving New Orleans' far northern parishes, when a land route alternative already exists.

Would there be any economic benefits to having a Metro Vancouver - Victoria amalgamation?

Want: People are speculating that Island residents are opposed. Has a formal poll been conducted? We all know Gulf Island residents are not in favour, but again, should the opinion of a small minority hinder progress? White Rock and Maple Ridge residents have made these arguments before. After construction is complete, residents from Galiano could sell their homes at grossly inflated prices and move to another island that better suits their lifestyle.

I'm not saying I know the answers to any of these questions, but we need to research the answers and consider if a bridge might actually be worthwhile.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Blake

Cost: If the $30 billion estimated price tag is correct, based on current ferry traffic numbers, what would toll rates need to be set at and could it be paid in full in at least 50 years? It would need to be comparable to existing ferry prices. If anybody wants to run some numbers, be my guest.

I'll run a few numbers. First, that's 600 million crossings at $50/pop. Or, 12 million per year (assuming 50 years). Does $30b include maintenance? I doubt it.

BC Ferries (as a total organization), says here that approx 9 million car trips per year, and 21 million passengers, so we are close. Certainly a bridge at equal pricing would be a more attractive prospect for many people. The numbers are for the entire organization, but I'm going out on a limb suggesting the bridge would replace all traffic To/From Nanaimo and Victoria, and that represents 90% of their traffic.

Any bridge would certainly have to provide capacity for rail lines of some form, whether light or "full". Can that all be built for $30b? Maybe. Are you going to find a finance partner any time soon? Only the Govt of Canada.

[mr.x]

The cost of building a fixed link using the technologies available right now could not be borne by government alone. Any private-sector interest undertaking such a project would require a return of 12 to 20 per cent. This would have to be raised through tariffs that would not only cover the cost of construction, but also annual maintenance and rehabilitation (estimated at $57 million per year) and insurance over the 100-year expected service life of the structure. With these considerations in mind, tariff structures for a fixed link using available technologies would probably be based as follows:

Note that this study was completed in the late-80's/early-90s.

Return Rate // Tariff (one-way) for $8B crossing // Tariff (one-way) for $12B
9% (breakeven) // $180 // $260
12% // $260 // $380
15% // $360 // $525
20% // $555 // $800


I'll take my ferry ride, thank you very much.

[metroXpress]

I don't think that this bridge is needed. We can all take the ferries.
Although it would be very interesting to see a bridge set up?

[bcj]

Originally Posted by awvan

It would certainly be the most significant because of the depth of the water. Although the Bridge of the Horns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_of_the_Horns) has a much better chance of being built and would likely be the most spectacular bridge in the world.

I think its unlikely we'll see a fixed link between the mainland and the island in any of our lifetimes. But less likely than a 200b bridge between two non-existent cities in two desperately poor countries? The projected cost is more than 3x the combined GDP of Yemen and Djibouti (~62b).

[vanlaw]

It will be interesting to see the Bahrain-Qatar "Friendship" Bridge take shape. Contracts have been awarded and construction willstart soon - 40km total.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar%E...endship_Bridge

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...=155039&page=5

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

Return Rate // Tariff (one-way) for $8B crossing // Tariff (one-way) for $12B
9% (breakeven) // $180 // $260
12% // $260 // $380
15% // $360 // $525
20% // $555 // $800


I'll take my ferry ride, thank you very much.

Those numbers are red herrings. If we stopped to evaluate the costs for ALL projects, we'd NEVER build ANYTHING.

Since when does a bridge NEED to recoup its building cost solely from tolls?

Does the #1 Hwy recoup its costs from its tolls? Oh wait, it doesn't have tolls. It's a FREEWAY. Of course, we know that it's paid for by general taxation and gas taxes. Likewise a bridge of this magnitude wouldn't be expected to recover its revenue solely from tolls. It would be paid for like other highway improvements, by the taxpayers of BC.

It's not that I'm recommending fiscal irresponsibility, it's just that we can't just look at tolls and say it's not worth.

It's not a question of whether we can recoup the cost by tolls, it's a question of whether other benefits, or other intangible benefits make a project worthwhile.

If we thought only in dollars and cents, I doubt BC's dams would've been built. Who would've predicted in the 50s that we would've cared so much about carbon emissions so much... and that hydro power would be so desireable.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by Blake

Would there be any economic benefits to having a Metro Vancouver - Victoria amalgamation?

OMG OMG Victoria can't get amalgamation between any of its 13 munis now! Merge it with Vancouver? OMG You would have to be wearing a suit of armour to mention that in Victoria the pitchforks would out in a nano second.

I am for amalgamation in Victoria by the way.

[Martin Burger]

http://bluenergy.com/images/Fence1.jpg[/IMG]

Pathetically there is a small group of people personally benefiting from maintaining the status quo at BC Hydro and they are desperate to keep things just the way they are.

The concerted effort to keep this low cost sustainable and most viable option out of our energy mix is wearing a little thin.

Top scientists and engineers from the Russian Rocket Program, NASA’s Helios Flying Wing Program, Boeing’s Dream Liner program, the National Research Council, UBC, Pen State Engineering, Bechtel, and the impeccable engineering authorities at RW Beck all agree the Blue Energy tidal power system with its 115 man-years of engineering development is VERY CREDIBLE.

Energy Minister Blair Lekstrom does not have his facts straight on tidal power costs and Hydro spokeswoman Simi Heer is disingenuous citing phony technical issues interconnecting to the grid... The tide is coming in as global investments in the marine energy sector now exceed $400 million and elsewhere the opportunities for this resource are taken very seriously.

Revenues from emission credits, existing ferry subsidies and power exports would more than pay for this exciting project without the need for user tolls.

Blue Energy is well on its way to building a pre-commercial order book in excess of $30.0 billion; find a DOTcom that was better than 100 $mil. Mark my words British Columbians…. You will be buying this equipment from Asian Countries at twice the price…. they will get the jobs and you will get the shaft.

We need to bring a few potato farmers in from PEI to show us how it’s done and while we’re are at it a few good RCMP officers to lock up these scoundrels denying us our clean low cost energy future.

As for the preserving the idyllic island life style in the Gulf Island, just hold a plebiscite and if the majority on that particular island votes no bridge link, then you just tunnel under that Island without any off ramps and keep on going.

Martin Burger Founding CEO

[WarrenC12]

Martin if you have a legitimate green technology for reliable power production (that BC Hydro is saying they want more of), and they are ignoring you, please go to the media, I'm sure they'd be happy to report on the issue and hopefully the facts will come out.

If you're on a message board boasting some pie in the sky technology you won't get anywhere.

[SpongeG]

i think the alaska-russia bridge will happen before the van isle bridge does

[amor de cosmos]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Martin if you have a legitimate green technology for reliable power production (that BC Hydro is saying they want more of), and they are ignoring you, please go to the media, I'm sure they'd be happy to report on the issue and hopefully the facts will come out.

they did, back in reply #158. i don't know if the fact that there's no bridge has anything to do with it, since the article mentions a bridge that also produces tidal power. since the bc coast has some of the strongest currents in the world like at Seymour Inlet or Campbell River, I don't see how it couldn't work. if tidal power can't be generated there it can't be generated anywhere. it would be like setting up solar arrays across all of northern africa & the middle east. hey back in the 1870s the CPR considered building a series of bridges over to the mainland, one of which would have been across Discovery Passage at Campbell River. (see replies #87, #90, #101, #113 on p.5-6 of this thread) maybe some tidal generators or turbines underneath could be enough to power all of vancouver island and the revenues generated could be used to pay for the project. is that the same sort of thing that the article was about? or since there would have been a total of 7 bridges, why not attach generators to all of them? is that a harebrained plan or what?

[KPELLY]

He did go to the media. Global. Heres a link to the video.

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/bc/video/index.html

Then click on "News Hour" and then "Island Link".

[jlousa]

VSE 101 from the 80's
Small company makes great claim, stock prices climb, insiders sell shares, project is unfeasible, stock prices drop, investors out millions.

There is nothing wrong with Blue energy's proposal, expect no one believes in it enough to lend $30Billion to build it.

[GlassCity]

Would a bridge really make Victoria a Vancouver suburb? I'd imagine the drive would be something like 2 hours from downtown Victoria to downtown Vancouver. Who would be willing to do that 5 days a week? I think all a bridge would do is make it a lot more convenient going between the two cities whenever need arises.

That being said, there isn't enough demand to warrant this kind of money being spent on it. Maybe when Victoria's population is like Vancouver's and Vancouver's is like LA's.

[Klazu]

There was a good opinion writing on this on the Vancouver Sun few weeks ago:

B.C. missed the boat not building a fixed link

The fixed link between Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland is overdue by more than 30 years. The Victoria engineering firm of Willis Cunliffe & Tait produced the only feasible method of replacing the ferry system in response to the world wide engineering competition sponsored by my ministry in 1979.

The scale of the project in terms of men and materials is roughly equivalent to the Mica dam. The cost at that time was estimated to be $3 billion. A model of this imaginative floating bridge project was the show piece of the BC Pavilion at EXPO 86. It now sits in lonely isolation in the basement of my home.

If the project had then gone ahead, it would have been completed long ago and the debt by now retired. Commuters would be driving across Georgia Straight in 20 minutes free of charge. But nothing has been done.

Instead, British Columbia taxpayers have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into ferry subsidies. These subsidies could have gone to paying for a bridge that will last for centuries.

Ever greater subsidies and higher fares are required to maintain the present system. Taxpayers suffered a loss of more than $440 million from the fast ferries.

Decreasing use is already occurring due to the current high fares.

While British Columbia has done nothing, other jurisdictions have taken impressive strides.

The 50.5 kilometre tunnel linking England and France was completed in 1996.

The 12.9 kilometre Confederation Bridge linking Prince Edward Island with the mainland was completed in 1997.

The 12 kilometre Oresund Bridge, linking Sweden with Denmark was completed in 2000. The 42.6 kilometre bridge linking China's city of Qingdao to the Island of Huangdao was completed in 2011. It is the world's longest sea bridge. Even longer bridges are now under construction in China.

In each case, these fixed links have been an instant success with benefits to continue for centuries. When done, people wonder how they could have got along without them.

During the golden era of the 1960s, when British Columbians were building dams, highways, gas pipelines, oil pipelines, railways and roads, they proudly called themselves the dynamic society. The government led and the people built. Their infrastructure legacy is the backbone of our economy today.

The legacy of our current generation should be better than leaving a dead weight debt for future generations to pay off.


Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/technolo...#ixzz2AYutNouJ

[easy as pie]

fantasyland has its own area code. funny how easy it is for someone who has never crunched a number in his/her life to marshal a completely baseless argument for a project that dozens or even hundreds of serious-minded people have evaluated, across political parties and interests.

spending 3-4 billion dollars to connect the 700,000 people of vancouver island to the mainland is a foolish waste of money, and 30 years ago when the population was 300,000-400,000, it would have been even more idiotic.

even just going by the examples, it's foolish. on the cost side, the confederation bridge was a deliberate and massive subsidy to the people of new brunswick and p.e.i. the sweden and denmark connection, another massive make-work project, is the cheapest way from scandinavia to europe. and, oh, the eurostar tunnel, which was insanely expensive to build (including a bankruptcy and massive government bail-out) handles a population equivalent to that of the entire province of bc every few weeks.

it's inevitable that when it makes sense, there'll be some bridge built from the island to the mainland, but it's super annoying to see something like this pop up as yet another chapter in the "i know better than the professionals" bc press.