MNP Tower | 143M | 36Fl | Completed

[Hed Kandi]

..

[wrenegade]

PaperTiger, as an UDP hater, I must say they did good this time. I maintain that for most projects (such as a 36 unit 4 storey C2 project) they are a huge waste of time.

[Cypherus]

I agree with the sentiment here regarding the proposition for increased height. The site is situated on prime CBD property and if a stunted 450' office tower is built, there will be a consensus 20-30 years from now that this site was underused. We already see this exemplified by the Burrard Building sitting on a 700' site.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by awvan

PaperTiger, as an UDP hater, I must say they did good this time.

What on earth makes you think the first design was not conceived precisely with the taste of the UDP in mind: bland, safe and boring? It is expensive to design and redesign a building. It makes no sense paying for a bold and daring design when practice tells you it will likely be rejected by a group of architectural overseers notorious for being averse to originality and exceptionalism.

You are making the mistake of praising a group of people for "solving" the very problem they are responsible for creating.

[jlousa]

The UDP is one of the best things that ever happened to Vancouver. It's not perfect and I agree with Awvan that there are certain projects where the udp only serves to slow things down, instead of bettering them. C-2 would be better served with standard design guidelines that need to be followed.

I think people are not realizing how tight this site really is. Most people are already surprised it's being proposed at all let alone this tall. Oxford might be able to go higher, but you not only need more elevators the columns need to be thicker as well again eating up space on lower floors and increasing costs. You'd need to go deeper as well to accommodate additional parking. I really think this is going to be one project where the they don't jump at taking the additional height. I'm fairly confident they've run the numbers and come up with what's optimal for them. I think we will see them go after the height at their next project.

[AlexYVR]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

What on earth makes you think the first design was not conceived precisely with the taste of the UDP in mind: bland, safe and boring? It is expensive to design and redesign a building. It makes no sense paying for a bold and daring design when practice tells you it will likely be rejected by a group of architectural overseers notorious for being averse to originality and exceptionalism.

You are making the mistake of praising a group of people for "solving" the very problem they are responsible for creating.

After working for one of the most sustainble and innovative architects in the city, I can say that you REALLY underestimate how many of our Vancouver 'starchitects' are trying to innovate for innovation's, or height's, sake. I was told point blank by one of the top 10 architect in BC that he/she lived in the forests of North Van and couldn't imagine living in a condo.

...I had to remind him that if he wanted to get rid of his property at the top of Wall Center, I'd be happy to take it.

Architecture is not all about height, especially not for the kind of architects that are from Vancouver. The UDP isn't some sort of tyrant. Look up in the thread: you have Trofirhen raving about Dubai and about how they were able to build skyscrapers in sand, when the real issue that keeps this site from growing taller is actually that an elevator core would need more space if the building were to be taller, rendering it unfeasible on the current site. Come on, people. Fish > Barrel. I think this new rendering will make a perfect compliment to Bentall 5, and I'm all for it. Sometimes people need to step back from height and prestige, stop blaming the UDP for all failings, and recognize goodness when they see it.

It's like you're all republicans.

[SpikePhanta]

Trofirhen didn't say that!

Also don't you think calling someone a republican is a pretty bad insult?

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by jlousa

The UDP is one of the best things that ever happened to Vancouver.

A truly hilarious (and baseless) claim.



------------------------------------------------


fj3

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFUExwNr-TN/

aw6

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHOeuxGA2g9/



n1

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHK6gVZj4h4/

qf1

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKDJwbrAF0W/

qf2

https://www.instagram.com/p/6oYuf5C_Pc/

fr4

https://www.instagram.com/p/BA1VwP_BvLY/

tj1

https://www.instagram.com/p/BC4A1iNH4YW/

fr8

https://www.instagram.com/p/__eFE2lY-k/

gr1

https://www.instagram.com/p/BI0NfpTjXTo/

gg22

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIyPh-4ADGO/

zd1

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJI56SEjkiQ/


https://www.instagram.com/p/BIDiLX3jUiZ/

5z

https://www.instagram.com/p/BETtRu1jG4i/

27g

https://www.instagram.com/p/BD_wl3nKnC6/

23b

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHvOaaOD91X/

66

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGgReGZBc9g/

22a

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGaN3r7v2LR/

22f

https://www.instagram.com/p/BG9eppeO8RA/

27

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFzrF8BgOja/

29

https://www.instagram.com/p/47zf7MgOu7/

28d

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHvk9YehyPE/

36

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGafyNEKwoS/

46

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHVKPXiAfvd/

34a

https://www.instagram.com/p/9Efd8dneCp/

32d

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFhqXO_MIEu/

25

https://www.instagram.com/p/BF0A9BhFecb/

i2

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFfCSUoR6QX/

i7

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCW-ObphYjF/

i9

https://www.instagram.com/p/6K6LbZJ2T6/

ty7

https://www.instagram.com/p/BH77FmtDDY0/

yy10

https://www.instagram.com/p/5v-WjRE0wS/

25d

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHm8lRXDBY8/

vk6

https://www.instagram.com/p/BH_A0iGj5ug/

g2

https://www.instagram.com/p/9jkBsrj8C0/

u9

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGNQsC0SMs1/

rv9


ft6

https://www.instagram.com/p/BBoXrnByV8Y/

nb1

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIOCPuEgsVU/

nb2

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGAEQOUB6kW/

nb3

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEcdsbBCLMV/

nv6

https://www.instagram.com/p/BF9xZI8nZQM/

jn5

https://www.instagram.com/p/8EDibTlIDT/

jn10

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIQkL57hEks/

gn5

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIX3sCXjX32/

gn19

https://www.instagram.com/p/BF3eljJL-Sy/

fj10

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEmSluEv5rU/

cj4

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCvguqJQEnA/

cj8

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIB78qbDc4b/

cj9

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCd4jG_hYqd/

ju8

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIdG_IxjFQv/

ju11

https://www.instagram.com/p/8Oew6kmjVh/

ju12

https://www.instagram.com/p/7Gm16_GjZq/

vvv8

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIfzYjlAxBo/

vvv10

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIrG8KOhVGh/

vvv12

https://www.instagram.com/p/BI3wHqqj0Tp/

vvv13

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIwMSirBt-t/

vvv14

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHquDzghWYz/

gg11

https://www.instagram.com/p/6N-9T3n4aI/

gg13

https://www.instagram.com/p/6DwiHHH4en/

gg14

https://www.instagram.com/p/57k2wjH4S5/

qq15

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJWaUNsgmtZ/

fk4

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJigtshB_QW/

fk5

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJeo2qwj9Vx/

fk7

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJWt4huhKv_/

fk10

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHqSrp6Bi1Y/

uy13

https://www.instagram.com/p/BDo3sd_sIPN/

uy17

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGe8rK4HrUu/

cx5

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHCMBrwDW_i/

cx6

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJv0-j2A9o6/

cx7

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHCMdgZDLyZ/

cx12

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGKWvaFilkq/

cx14

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEg0dlJhkwg/

cx17

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGmzo5lBYNA/


https://www.instagram.com/p/BFz0eOVlpPA/

zs1

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGCgifOlvQp/

gr3

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIsmH7FjLRc/

aw2

https://www.instagram.com/p/5vnjmtH4Uw/

aw3


aw14


awx

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKa2gRGDwR_/

ar2

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGheDNRpeEu/

ar4

https://www.instagram.com/p/BD2KmQXty2e/

ar5

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJEZIIrDjB8/

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by AlexYVR

Look up in the thread: you have Trofirhen raving about Dubai and about how they were able to build skyscrapers in sand, when the real issue ............

It's like you're all republicans.

Excuse me, Alex. It was not me raving about Dubai. I simply multiquoted some people, one of whom mentioned Dubai. I think Dubai is grotesquely excessive, like something from outer space.

When you make an accusation, although I realize this was accidental and done in haste, please be accurate. I do not want to be your "bête noire."

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by jlousa

The UDP is one of the best things that ever happened to Vancouver. It's not perfect and I agree with Awvan that there are certain projects where the udp only serves to slow things down, instead of bettering them. C-2 would be better served with standard design guidelines that need to be followed.

I think people are not realizing how tight this site really is. Most people are already surprised it's being proposed at all let alone this tall. Oxford might be able to go higher, but you not only need more elevators the columns need to be thicker as well again eating up space on lower floors and increasing costs. You'd need to go deeper as well to accommodate additional parking. I really think this is going to be one project where the they don't jump at taking the additional height. I'm fairly confident they've run the numbers and come up with what's optimal for them. I think we will see them go after the height at their next project.

yeah, it is a tight spot and some people on here don't understand how the inner dimensions of a building work when you add more height.

That said, seeing how this new design has already been able to increase the height by 8 meters, I would love to see them be able to stretch out another 6 meters just to make it a true skyscraper (150) and to have feel that much more prominent over Shaw and Pacific Rim.

1\But I am more than happy with 144meters

[logan5]

Hardly an expert, so could somebody please explain the difference between this building and Shangri-La, which is 660' tall and pencil thin?

[Alex Mackinnon]

Condos have less elevator traffic.

[phesto]

It's already been said here, but to those clamouring for more height, Oxford spends a great deal of time and resources on the feasibility of their projects. Given the size of the site and the shape of the floorplate, extra height would greatly reduce the efficiency of the building. Then there is the underground factor that JLo referred to, and quite honestly, they are comfortable with that amount of office space. They have larger sites to develop a bigger/taller building in the future...

Perhaps I can put it in perspective:

1021 West Hastings:
Site area: 11,500 sq ft
Proposed Height: 36 storeys/475 ft

Bentall 5, 550 Burrard:
Site area: 65,000 sq ft
Building Height: 33 storeys/460 ft

Now, Bentall 5 is the most efficient office tower in Downtown Vancouver with 17,500 sq ft floors (efficiency is defined as the ratio of rentable area of the building versus non-usable areas like elevator shafts and lobbies, etc.) Basically, if you reduce the floorplate lower than 12,000 sq ft, it reduces the feasibility to build because you're reducing the rentable area with elevator space. The density the City gives is on the gross area; they don't care how efficient the building is.

If you still think it should be taller, you either don't understand how small the site is, or you haven't grasped the building economics fundamentals that I referred to above.

I agree that Vancouver could do well by some taller office towers, but this isn't the site for a 500+ footer.

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

yeah, it is a tight spot and some people on here don't understand how the inner dimensions of a building work when you add more height.

Given the elevator constraints, the argument for added height is made by constructing a more prominent crown so the tower has a more measurable impact to the skyline. This tower's crown can probably go up another 25' to exemplify some sense of vision and architectural mechanics without exceeding the marginal costs and desired efficiencies of the project. Although given its small floor-plate and existing height, I am amazed that such a tower can be constructed there. It opens up a lot of other possibilities for developers to kitty corner and wedge some towers in between others.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

I am amazed that such a tower can be constructed there. It opens up a lot of other possibilities for developers to kitty corner and wedge some towers in between others.

The parking Garage on Melville and Thurlow comes to mind as another candidate for such a "squeeze"... and perhaps the Royal Centre Bank Branch "Bunker" ... didn't such a proposal exist for the later? Or was that just speculation?

The 1021 W Hastings tower will compliment the eventual 550' tower at the former Amacon Site.

[dleung]

Occasionally I do prefer taller, as in this case. The view cone height of 550' would have been perfect. If they add 6 more floors, 1 whole floor will be cancelled out by the loss of sellable space due to the extra core area, times 42 floors. I read somewhere that architects/developers want at least 15% return on any investment, so this is sort of around that threshold.

But if there is ever a business case for skygardens half-way up, or an over-sized crown a-la Tower Verre or the London Shard (a Vancouver version with a mini-forest inside the crown), this would be that situation, because the extra program won't come at the expense of sellable area.

[cornholio]

Create some residential units up top, have only one or two of the elevator shafts go up to the residential floors when a code is entered by a resident. The elevators can also stop at a separate parkade floor only accessible to residents, when they want to go up or down they just need to enter the code/key to call the elevator. The elevator can then know when its empty and become a express elevator for the residents between the private parkade and private residential levels. On top of this the elevator could become ready as the resident enters the parkade or nears the building like a automated garage door opener. Plus outside of working hours or peak elevator usage hours a elevator can actually be automaticly taken out of service for the office space floors and only serve the residents. It can begin to go through a set plan of making sure it becomes empty and going to where its needed, like a smart elevator. Voila you have added height without needing extra elevator shafts as the residential units would create insignificant traffic.

Only problem I see would be maintaining the office tower look where the residential units would be. But they sure could sell for a nice buck. Plus it could complicate runing the office tower with the two different uses, but nothing that cant be overcome, especially when you have prime residential space worth a pile of cash with little extra investment.

Lets say 6 extra floors with 10 luxury units(2 per floor for 5 floors) at lets say 5mill each and a penthouse for say 10mill and you have 60mill in sales for 6 extra floors to a already set office tower. Im pulling these numbers out of my ass but they seem possible.

[Metro-One]

Sorry, I will take the 145 meter pure office tower over ruining the entire project with a few floors of residential just to add some vertical. At least if it is pure office we have a far better chance of having a lighting feature and or Logo at the top of the tower, instead of it fading away into the night *cough* Shangri-La *cough*

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Sorry, I will take the 145 meter pure office tower over ruining the entire project with a few floors of residential just to add some vertical. At least if it is pure office we have a far better chance of having a lighting feature and or Logo at the top of the tower, instead of it fading away into the night *cough* Shangri-La *cough*

I agree.
It is just a way of getting the height up without needing more elevator space, but like I said it makes it difficult to making the top residential space matching the bottom office space. Plus like you said any lighting feature up there would be almost impossible with residential space up there.

Maybe hotel space but that would be hard for only a few floors and no special ball room, swimming pool, etc space.

Just a idea

[Hed Kandi]

..