Proposal - Hwy 10 Freeway

[dmuzika]

I've looked at the Gateway program and one thing I noticed is lacking is a good, direct connection between the Trans Canada Highway and Hwy 99. The South Fraser Perminiter Road is supposed to serve as that connection, but westbound TCH 1 traffic will need to go as far west as Hwy 15 before following the Fraser River and connect with Hwy 99 near Ladner. I predict that once the SFPR is completed, because of its proximity to the ports an industrial areas of Surrey and Delta, it will have have a lot of truck traffic and will not be an attractive option for traffic heading for Vancouver Island or Roberts Bank.

A common trend for most cities is to build an outer bypass route so traffic wanting to go through the city has an option to go around it, this is evident in Western Canada with Hwy 201/Stoney Trail in Calgary, and Hwy 216/Anthony Henday Drive in Edmonton. While Vancouver has geographic limitations which prevent a ring road, a portion could serve that purpose with creation of the Hwy 10 freeway through Langley and Surrey. Traffic origionating east of Vancouver entering via TCH 1 could use Hwy 10 to connect with the Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal, Robert's Bank, the US border via either Hwy 15 or 99 (bypassing downtown Cloverdale), or the Vancouver International Airport. The current Hwy 10 could be decomissioned along 56 Ave in favor of a true regional highway, and the future option could exist for a Fraser River crossing to connect with Hwy 7. It could serve as a Metro Vancouver SE bypass.

I enclosed a map of my idea:



Any thoughts?

[SpongeG]

would be nice

not having any good freeways to ip across the LM is kinda sucky

getting from fleetwood to the airport is so long but once you hit the east/west connector its pretty fast

getting from coquitlam to the airport is awful

having seen the amounts of traffic along marine drive trying to get onto the knight street bridge and hearing about the back ups at the queensborough they really need to put in a crossing between burnaby and richmond - that would free up so much traffic on the other bridges

i could see it going from boundary road to the east/west connector at least if possible even going across the river as an alternate to the tunnel and the alex fraser would be a dream

[East Van]

wasnt there talk of boundary linking up with #8 road ? that area is going to be even more of a mess once that south fraser lands development is complete.

[SpongeG]

would be nice

as it is now burnaby has no bridges but relys on its neighbours to handle their traffic

[officedweller]

The freeway from Hwy 1 to Hwy 99 is/was planned to run up the Serpentine River Valley. It has probbaly been deferred because of the South Fraser Perimeter Road.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The freeway from Hwy 1 to Hwy 99 is/was planned to run up the Serpentine River Valley. It has probbaly been deferred because of the South Fraser Perimeter Road.

Yes, the so-called Serpentine Hwy has always been planned. All the upgrades and expansions as part of the MoT's Border Infrastructure Program are meant to handle this increased traffic rather than constructing the Serpentine Hwy (i.e. upgrades on Hwy 10 and 176 St.)

Annoys me quite a bit considering Hwy 10 and 176 both go through communities in Surrey, and the expansions are turning these roads into "real" highways. They were previously just arterials roads with a fancier title. I would have much preferred the highway traffic to diverted onto an actual highway that goes through the ALR, away from any civilization - reduces collisions, reduce noise and air pollution in communities, and it also gives the traffic a more direct route to Hwy 1. With the Border Infrastructure Program, it's just forcing the trucks to make a big L, versus if the Serpentine Highway were built, it would just cut right through.

[twoNeurons]

This is Metro Vancouver... Anti-Freeway.

[worldwide]

and rightfully so

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by worldwide

and rightfully so

Through the downtown core, I agree. However, there really should be an efficient way to connect the 99, 91, and 1.

[GMasterAres]

What I find odd is that with the expansion of Highway 10 to 2 lanes both direction, they have decreased the speed limit from 80km/h to 70km/h now. I find, while it is faster for the most part, that it isn't much faster with the added lanes simply because people are in both lanes doing about 65-70km/h.

You also get a lot of trucks passing other trucks slowly in the left lane holding everyone up.

Regardless of that fact though, when Hwy 10 is fully complete, going between 99/91 and 1 via Hwy10->176th isn't all that slow. I agree it could be served better with a dedicated freeway link of some sort (why is the 176th expansion not including an interchange at the Fraser Highway intersection??) the border infrastructure expansion _will_ speed things up.

Who knows. It was hard enough selling Gateway let alone a new freeway cutting through ALR land. Good luck with that.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by tintinium

This is Metro Vancouver... Anti-Freeway.

Gotta disagree with ya. Politicians within Vancouver City proper and the older neighbouring municipalities of Burnaby and New West perhaps...

But outside of that area, and particularly south of the Fraser River from Richmond eastward, free-flow highways are looked upon favourably by politicians of all stripes as well as the general public. (where the majority of Metro Vancouver's population resides)

Routing within specific corridors are contentious by some (eg. the SFPR), but I digress.

Even the City of Surrey has the Southern Freeway corridor within its master transportation plan. (You'd never see that in the City of Vancouver's master transportation plan!)

As for the Serpentine freeway corridor and the southern freeway corridor, those are longer range corridors down the road.

The SFPR expressway as well as the Hwy 10/15 4-lane divided highways will suffice for the mid-term.

BTW, prior to any future east-west freeway corridors between Hwy 1 and 99, the Hwy 99 corridor will be the next on the list for a major rebuild a la something akin to the current Hwy 1 plans.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Gotta disagree with ya. Politicians within Vancouver City proper and the older neighbouring municipalities of Burnaby and New West perhaps...

But outside of that area, and particularly south of the Fraser River from Richmond eastward, free-flow highways are looked upon favourably by politicians of all stripes as well as the general public. (where the majority of Metro Vancouver's population resides)

Routing within specific corridors are contentious by some (eg. the SFPR), but I digress.

Even the City of Surrey has the Southern Freeway corridor within its master transportation plan. (You'd never see that in the City of Vancouver's master transportation plan!)

As for the Serpentine freeway corridor and the southern freeway corridor, those are longer range corridors down the road.

The SFPR expressway as well as the Hwy 10/15 4-lane divided highways will suffice for the mid-term.

BTW, prior to any future east-west freeway corridors between Hwy 1 and 99, the Hwy 99 corridor will be the next on the list for a major rebuild a la something akin to the current Hwy 1 plans.

What's this Southern Freeway corridor you speak of?

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

What's this Southern Freeway corridor you speak of?

It's a freeway corridor that would commence near the King George Hwy interchange with Hwy 99 and heads eastward until around 184th St. whereby it jogs southward until around 16th Ave.

From there, on an alignment just north of 16th Ave, it would continue eastward until it connects Hwy 1 near the Abbotsford International Airport.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

It's a freeway corridor that would commence near the King George Hwy interchange with Hwy 99 and heads eastward until around 184th St. whereby it jogs southward until around 16th Ave.

From there, on an alignment just north of 16th Ave, it would continue eastward until it connects Hwy 1 near the Abbotsford International Airport.

That's still on the table but you're correct that Highway 99 is a higher priority. After Gateway, HWY99 will more than likely be the next thing dealt with. The main sticking point though is again Vancouver.

Unfortunately the project would be going now but the argument is that the feeder routes into Vancouver can't support the increase in traffic. AKA you only have Oak Street and Knight Street and neither are design well enough to handle that increased traffic. Heck they can't handle 1 land of tunnel traffic going into Vancouver and 3 full lanes leaving during rush hour. Imagine just 2 lanes going into Vancouver and it would take you a decade.

So who knows how that will work out. Vancouver really needs a few more bridges crossing from Richmond to Vancouver area. but again that would still equate to more cars running through Vancouver and we are back to the MAIN issue at the route of all problems in the city of Vancouver, no main highway going through or around the city like every other major city on the planet has.

So while it is a priority, you may still see the east-west highway through the base of Surrey towards Ab. before they actually expand Hwy 99. I also think part of the plan with pushing Surrey to be the second legit downtown of the region is to have people south of the fraser go to Surrey Center and Langley rather than travel Hwy99 to Vancouver. If you don't have to go to Vancouver, then there is less need to expand the feeder routes there.

[twoNeurons]

A bridge at Boundary could lighten the load off of Oak and Knight for people trying to bypass or head North on the #1 (North Shore/Squamish/Whistler...)

That's really the only feasible route as a connector. Boundary is tricky. It "Could" be widened with some expropriation north of Kingsway. South of Kingsway you'd have to eat into Central Park (or tunnel it around there) and then build retaining walls on the Burnaby side, making a bunch of streets dead ends similar to the #1 between 1st ave and Hastings.

Technically, this freeway would only be "half" in Vancouver... and it would offer a quick connect between Freeways... however, I'm not sure it's needed.

edit: a map

[officedweller]

Given Marine Way is a relatively fast route and there is ALR in Richmond at the south end of a Boundary Bridge location, I would see twinning of the Queensborough before a Boundary Bridge.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Unfortunately the project would be going now but the argument is that the feeder routes into Vancouver can't support the increase in traffic. AKA you only have Oak Street and Knight Street and neither are design well enough to handle that increased traffic. Heck they can't handle 1 land of tunnel traffic going into Vancouver and 3 full lanes leaving during rush hour.

A Hwy 99 "Gateway 2", would require "system wide" improvements inclusive of the Oak St. Bridge at its north end.

The Oak St. Bridge has three major north/south thoroughfares within Vancouver city limits in close proximity (Oak/Granville/Cambie) onto which traffic disperses with 9 combined arterial lanes in each direction. I personally use all of these arterials.

I would prefer to see the existing Oak St. Bridge utilized for one-way traffic (1 HOV lane, 2 GP lanes, and 1 auxiliary lane taking on Bridgeport on-ramp traffic and dropping off at the SW Marine Dr. exit.

Remove the centre barrier and the sidewalks and you could fit in 4 12- foot lanes. And build an adjacant twin.

What many people may not realize is that late afternoon rush-hour traffic "northbound" has become quite prolific in that past years with long back-ups over the Oak/Knight/ and Queensbourgh bridges. It's not just southbound traffic.

Now Vancouver's stated policy of not allowing any more bridge lanes into its boundaries is just plain silly. South of the Fraser traffic in the western quadrant not only heads to Vancouver's downtown penninsula for business/entertainment reasons but also further northward to the Horseshoe Bay ferry terminal, Whistler, and beyond.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Given Marine Way is a relatively fast route and there is ALR in Richmond at the south end of a Boundary Bridge location, I would see twinning of the Queensborough before a Boundary Bridge.

knight street bridge would be better to twin

rush hour around that bridge is a night mare - been stuck many times there

but once you pass the bottle neck its a breeze along marine drive in vancouver

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

What many people may not realize is that late afternoon rush-hour traffic "northbound" has become quite prolific in that past years with long back-ups over the Oak/Knight/ and Queensbourgh bridges. It's not just southbound traffic.

Indeed. I went to the fireworks yesterday and from where I work it took me 1 1/2 hours to drive 20km. Going home I drive 30km and it takes me 30 minutes roughly. It was ridiculous. Lucky I was smart enough to cut over and take the Arthur Lang rather than crawl over the Oak Street bridge towards Kits. That probably shaved 20 minutes off the overall commute.

I could never live in Vancouver and work South of the Fraser. It's stupid unless you take the bus.

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Now Vancouver's stated policy of not allowing any more bridge lanes into its boundaries is just plain silly. South of the Fraser traffic in the western quadrant not only heads to Vancouver's downtown penninsula for business/entertainment reasons but also further northward to the Horseshoe Bay ferry terminal, Whistler, and beyond.

Which is why a link between Hwy 99/91 to Hwy 1 could actually be a major regional advantage point. You bring more jobs and available commercial activities to the Surrey area and suddenly most people South of Fraser no longer need to trek through Vancouver.

The only reason I go to Vancouver these days is to:

1) Visit my sister who lives in Kits
2) Go to Mountain Equipment Co-op
3) Go to the odd BC Lions or Canucks game (Typically served by hopping the SkyTrain)

That's it. I have no other reason to head there. So to a degree I don't mind them not expanding their bridges or roads inside Vancouver city itself. It is just pushing more commercial out towards Surrey where the bulk of the people will be living in the next 10 years.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by jhausner

What I find odd is that with the expansion of Highway 10 to 2 lanes both direction, they have decreased the speed limit from 80km/h to 70km/h now. I find, while it is faster for the most part, that it isn't much faster with the added lanes simply because people are in both lanes doing about 65-70km/h.

I assume you are referring to the section between 120th St. and the KG Hwy?

If that's the case... the 70km/hr limit is just temporary.

Heading east along that section just after 120th St., one can see a new speed advisory sign with a black garbage bag placed over it... but you can make out the "80" just showing underneath.

Furthermore, just before the KG Hwy a speed advisory reduction notification to 70 km/hr has been placed for the intersection.

I assume the actual operating speed will be between 80 and 90 km/hr once the 80 km/hr has been posted.

BTW, the section of Hwy 10 heading eastward after 152nd St. operates at around 90/100 km/hr similar to the newly opened section of Hwy 15 south of Hwy 10.

A heck of a lot better than previously platooning along at 60 km/hr!