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  #101  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2017, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lubicon View Post
Driving foreign investment out of the country will solve the problem how?? this country relies on foreign investment, there is not nearly enough capital within our borders. We need to encourage investment, not drive it away.
Foreign buyers of local real estate should be taxed in order to lesson demand and fund affordable housing.

Investments from foreign sources that undermine Canadians quality of life are NOT the kind of investments Canada needs.

Encourage business investment sure, but real estate and housing should be Canadian residents first.

Housing is after all firstly a place to live, it shouldn't be treated as a mass commodity like it's currently being treated as.

So yes, tax foreign investors enough to gain revenue to deal with this crisis but not enough to outright scare away investment.

15% Canada wide on all foreign real estate purchases should be enough.
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  #102  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2017, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lubicon View Post
Driving foreign investment out of the country will solve the problem how?? this country relies on foreign investment, there is not nearly enough capital within our borders. We need to encourage investment, not drive it away.
Buying houses isn't an "investment" in the sense you're using the term. It is not the same nor as productive in investing in manufacturing, tourism or resource businesses. The notion that our economy would somehow collapse if we wound back prices to 2005 levels is ridiculous. We were still building plenty of condos and houses then, just not at such inflated prices.
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  #103  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2017, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lubicon View Post
Driving foreign investment out of the country will solve the problem how?? this country relies on foreign investment, there is not nearly enough capital within our borders. We need to encourage investment, not drive it away.
Housing - especially unoccupied - is a non-productive asset.

If these were rental units, one could argue that they are productive.
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  #104  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2017, 10:30 PM
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As a further rebuttal to Monkey_Ronin's complaint about bringing this back to foreign buyers, this was in today's Globe & Mail:

Investors who buy housing and leave it empty in a city push up both real estate and rent costs, making older homeowners more wealthy and renters significantly worse off, concludes a new study by a pair of professors from Vancouver and New York.

Crunching data from Statistics Canada and the census, as well as historical New York data, the researchers found a 10-per-cent increase in out-of-town investors produces a 9-per-cent increase in rents in the central city and a 5-per-cent increase in house prices in the region....


https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36637079/
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  #105  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2017, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
[I]Investors who buy housing and leave it empty in a city push up both real estate and rent costs
This happens only in areas that already have a problem with land shortages and over-desirability.

There is no housing problem in Canada. There is a location distribution issue.
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  #106  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2017, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Delusio Cogno View Post
This happens only in areas that already have a problem with land shortages and over-desirability.

There is no housing problem in Canada. There is a location distribution issue.
Given that the GTA, Metro Vancouver and the Lower Mainland make up a huge chunk of Canada's population, it is a problem for Canada.
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  #107  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2017, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusio Cogno View Post
This happens only in areas that already have a problem with land shortages and over-desirability.

There is no housing problem in Canada. There is a location distribution issue.
There seems to be two issues:

1. Location distribution of people

2. Location distribution of capital

I would posit that the location distribution of capital is the issue and indeed the evidence suggest that it is the latter.
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  #108  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2017, 2:48 AM
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Something that is obviously overlooked is the relative lack of public/social housing. Our definition of social housing is needs to change.

Quote:
Vancouver is a region racked by the negative effects of spiralling real-estate prices and rents, with people bitterly divided over the causes and solutions amid warnings that young people's futures, businesses and urban life are being seriously damaged.

In Vienna, 60 per cent of the population lives in social housing and rents are set so that people pay no more than 30 per cent of their income. There is no housing shortage, ...

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rea...beandmail.com&

The notion of home ownership as a necessity, a normal expectation or right, is already changing, but the role and participation of government has not kept pace. Public/social housing does not have to be limited to the bottom strata of society, it can and should be an effective part of the solution, providing appropriate housing for much of the middle class where the market system has failed to do so.
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  #109  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2017, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Something that is obviously overlooked is the relative lack of public/social housing. Our definition of social housing is needs to change.




https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rea...beandmail.com&

The notion of home ownership as a necessity, a normal expectation or right, is already changing, but the role and participation of government has not kept pace. Public/social housing does not have to be limited to the bottom strata of society, it can and should be an effective part of the solution, providing appropriate housing for much of the middle class where the market system has failed to do so.
There's that, but state social housing has too much of a stigma in North America as being for poor people.

I still hold one of the best ways to bring down prices in Vancouver would be to allow the only multifamily construction to be rentals. Once you take the speculative driven element out of the market, what locals can actually afford would be quickly revealed by the rental market. It does mean a shift from thinking one always has to own, but at least its not tainted with the social housing stigma.
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  #110  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2017, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
There's that, but state social housing has too much of a stigma in North America as being for poor people.
But isn't this the effect of the existing public housing being poor quality on average, partly because it is mostly meant to be as affordable as possible?

If I were renting a nice $3,000 a month place and an alternative became available that was better in every way (location, cost, quality, tenant rights, neighbours, etc.) I would not care if it were government owned.

I believe that if, say, 300,000 nice big apartments appeared tomorrow in Vancouver, prices would tank and housing would become much more affordable. Detached housing may never become affordable again but multi-unit housing could be. There just aren't enough decent-quality units (i.e. better than 2 bedroom 60's walk-ups) in areas people want to live in. I think the question of whether private developers build the new stock on their own or the government steps in is secondary.
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  #111  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2017, 11:53 AM
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All land in Canada could be considered as belonging to Native Tribal Councils. Effective immediately all land purchases in Canada could be deemed illegal. All land in Canada could be returned to rightful aboriginal owners. Everyone who is not status indian and was caught owning property in Canada could be fined for possesion of stolen property. All buildings on stolen property could be confiscated as they were acquired from the results of unlawful activity.

In return for this correction of ownership, Native Councils could agree to rent out the property back to its current residents at levels pegged to incomes.


.... Or capitalism can continue....

Last edited by Delusio Cogno; Oct 26, 2017 at 12:18 PM.
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  #112  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2017, 8:44 PM
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It looks like the City of Vancouver has finally gotten serious about trying to tackle affordability by getting to the root of the problem:

...the City of Vancouver wants to collaborate with the provincial and federal governments to explore the viability of “restricting property ownership by non-permanent residents.”

That line appears in Vancouver’s 10-year housing strategy released Thursday, a comprehensive plan seeking to address all elements of the city’s housing crisis...


http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...nent-residents
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  #113  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 8:04 PM
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I would dismantle wasteful programs like Toronto Community Housing and replace it with a cash transfer to all renters who work for a living. Almost all public housing is dangerous and roach infested because there is a high concentration of problem tenants in the same buildings. Its also full of beurocratic waste. A universal income type program would give people more choice and freedom.

I'd also get rid of home ownership subsidies. The idea that everyone is entitiled to home ownership is unsustainable and very dangerous. We should be subsidizing renters, not homeowners.

I also fully support a ban on airbnb in areas where affordability and supply scarcity are an issue. I'd also ban room rental and "homestays" in these areas. Likewise, Id also give more power for landlords to evict problem tenants.

I'm generally very supportive of free markets, but right now the real estate sector has too much power at the expense of other sectors, especially in cities like Toronto and Vancouver. If people are cash advancing to pay rent how can Joe Average ever hope to become financially independent or start businesses?

Last edited by yaletown_fella; Nov 28, 2017 at 8:18 PM.
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  #114  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaletown_fella View Post
I would dismantle wasteful programs like Toronto Community Housing and replace it with a cash transfer to all renters who work for a living. Almost all public housing is dangerous and roach infested because there is a high concentration of problem tenants in the same buildings. Its also full of beurocratic waste. A universal income type program would give people more choice and freedom.
One issue with that is people who rely on community housing are incapable of living in market housing even if they could afford it; many have issues with addictions, criminal records, credit ratings, etc. that result in private landlords rejecting them as tenants during the application process. If this was really the way we're going to go, we'd need two key reforms:

1) A system allowing landlords to take rent money directly out of social benefits payments bypassing the need for tenants to actually pay themselves; this would obviously require regulations to protect against abuse.
2) Firm laws preventing landlords from rejecting tenants with steps like making it illegal for landlords to request credit checks/background checks/police checks/etc. on prospective tenants
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  #115  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
One issue with that is people who rely on community housing are incapable of living in market housing even if they could afford it; many have issues with addictions, criminal records, credit ratings, etc. that result in private landlords rejecting them as tenants during the application process. If this was really the way we're going to go, we'd need two key reforms:

1) A system allowing landlords to take rent money directly out of social benefits payments bypassing the need for tenants to actually pay themselves; this would obviously require regulations to protect against abuse.
2) Firm laws preventing landlords from rejecting tenants with steps like making it illegal for landlords to request credit checks/background checks/police checks/etc. on prospective tenants
Well said. I couldnt agree more with both points that you made.

Unfortunately, I dont see affordability or universal rental cash transfers happening anytime soon because organizations like TREB and TCHC very wealthy and powerful lobbies.
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  #116  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
2) Firm laws preventing landlords from rejecting tenants with steps like making it illegal for landlords to request credit checks/background checks/police checks/etc. on prospective tenants
As a landlord I do think that some of the checks that people do are invasive and unnecessary, but we need to protect ourselves from bad renters as well. Most landlords are not wealthy lobbyists
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  #117  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 9:28 PM
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Banning foreign buyers ? it's happening

http://business.financialpost.com/re...housing-market
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  #118  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
As a landlord I do think that some of the checks that people do are invasive and unnecessary, but we need to protect ourselves from bad renters as well. Most landlords are not wealthy lobbyists
If it were easy to get rid of bad tenants I'd be perfectly willing to give potential bad tenants a shot. However, right now, legally, the one main thing a landlord can do in Quebec is to simply refuse to let them in.

I've been aware for over a decade of the painful irony: in order to protect these people (by making them extremely hard to evict), we're all but guaranteeing no one will accept to rent them anything. The policy has the exact opposite effect -- they're staying out.

If we at least let them have a chance, landlords would be willing to risk it. I do that often in our U.S. properties, giving people a chance knowing I can be rid of them quickly enough if needed. In QC we have to be way more wary, unfortunately for people with bad track records.
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  #119  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2017, 11:19 PM
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Very interesting clip - especially the part toward the end discussing public perception.

Video Link
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  #120  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2017, 2:35 AM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
Unfortunately, to do this realistically in places like Vancouver, entire neighbourhoods zoned for SFH would have to change, and the huge resistance against that combined with the perpetual "foreign buyer boogeyman" means the conversation has turned into a "foreign buyer versus density" debate, instead of a "foreign buyer and density" debate - so nothing gets done.
You're exactly correct -- this is an urban planning issue and rezoning SFH areas is the solution.

Unfortunately, the nationalist right that's flourishing in the West now has convinced most people that attacking the Chinese and other immigrants is the solution.
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