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  #48221  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 7:31 AM
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CityBoyDoug CityBoyDoug is offline
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
Thanks for giving it a shot odinthor. I appreciate it.



Early postcard "Taken in Los Angeles California"


old file / possibly ebay

This handsome young man is obviously wearing a sailor suit but his hat is civilian, right?
I've been trying figure out a date by the style of his sailor's uniform. (any help would be appreciated)


Here's the reverse of the postcard. (so frustrating that there isn't a postmark)



to "Pal Andy Bartko, Toledo Ohio"

_
The style of his tie appears to be pre-WWII. Hair is not regulation and obviously the cap is a wack job. Maybe he's an actor or its for Halloween.
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  #48222  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 9:44 AM
CaliNative CaliNative is offline
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Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug View Post
The style of his tie appears to be pre-WWII. Hair is not regulation and obviously the cap is a wack job. Maybe he's an actor or its for Halloween.
Looks like 1900s or 1910s (almost certainly pre-WW1). Maybe a foreign (or possibly American) sailor from a vessel docked in San Pedro or Long Beach? But the cap doesn't look like any sailor cap from any navy or merchant marine service I'm familiar with. Probably his own cap worn off duty.
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  #48223  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 11:54 AM
Noir_Noir Noir_Noir is offline
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The sailor suit I think is just a made up studio prop.These novelty picture cards were popular circa the 1910's. Two more from the Electric Studio, 240 S. Main Street, Los Angeles -






The first one dates from 1913.


Bizarre Los Angeles
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  #48224  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
odinthor, I believe you'll like this post. (although maybe not as much as the previous post )

"Controversial Eucalyptus Tree"



lapl

This massive eucalyptus, pictured in 1928, once grew on Preuss Road near Beverly Hills.

"This magnificent eucalyptus tree estimated at fifty years of age and considered the finest example of its species in the state, stands on Pruess Rd. (Robertson Blvd.), near Beverly Hils. Its owner, Alfred H. Whitworth, has resisted all efforts by real estate interests to have it cut down. Celebrities, like Cecil B. DeMille have offered to purchase it and present it to the city rather than see it cut down."
from lapl

I had no idea Robertson Blvd. used to be called Preuss Road.

__
It is a fine-looking specimen. Thanks, e_r! Yes, the tree wasn't the only fine-looking specimen posted . . .

These days, I'd think that purchasing something and presenting it to a city government would hasten rather than retard something's destruction; but . . . those were different times.
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  #48225  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Noir_Noir View Post

The sailor suit I think is just a made up studio prop.These novelty picture cards were popular circa the 1910's. Two more from the Electric Studio, 240 S. Main Street, Los Angeles -





The first one dates from 1913.

Bizarre Los Angeles
Electric Studio doesn't appear in the CDs, but the first picture above has this caption:
A novelty photo taken at the Electric Studio at 240 S. Main Street, Los Angeles, CA. The writing on the back of the photo reads: Dedico Este Pequieno Recuerdo a mi hermano Encarnacion Montes. — Jose Montes. Dated September 28, 1913.
I don't speak Spanish, but I believe Jose Montes is dedicating a small memory to his brother.

With this 1913 date in mind, I found a photographer named Barzillai S Ansley at 240 S Main from 1911 to 1913. The address saw a lot tenants around this time, usually restaurants: 1910 Hoy Chong, 1911 [Martin P] Veselich & [Peter] Prokurica, 1912 Tony Aviani, 1913 John Carli and 1914 Harry F Westrem. In 1914, the restaurant shared the address with Scott Hardware.

Barzillai S Ansley moved premises to 312 S Main from 1915-1936 and 233 S Broadway 1937-1942, although strangely he's listed as Jack B Ansley in 1937 and 1938. A wife, Nellie B, first appears in 1929, and it's the fact that Jack B Ansley was a photographer at 233 S Broadway (living at 1131 S Westlake Avenue) with a wife named Nellie that makes me think it's the same person as Barzillai S Ansley who has the exact same details in later CDs.
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  #48226  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 3:01 PM
Godzilla Godzilla is offline
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There are a couple of ice dispensers still in operation in Gardena.

This coin operated version is on 162nd Street.
GSV

And this full service operation is not too far away on Normandie Ave at 166th Street.
GSV

Is it possible that someone in Gardena is holding out and still using the old ice box?



There is still a moderate demand for conventional and dry ice, whether or not anyone uses an old ice box for its original purpose is another question. Setting aside medical needs and occasional entertainment situations, both types of ice are used in connection with recreational purposes involving fish and game. There's also camping and old school "coolers" that are merely insulated containment vessels. Then there are those FEMA-emergency situations, e.g., no electricity post hurricane, fires, etc. The few times that I can recall purchasing ice in bulk, it was at a "convenience" store and not via a self-serve vending machine. The ice was also cubed and not in large blocks, obviating the need to carry a decidedly noir instrument, the ice pick, as used in a 1962 Valley ice pick murder. https://bizarrela.com/2016/12/morton...murderer-1962/






http://bizarrela.com/wp-content/uplo.../Icepick00.jpg
















And, on an unrelated note, NLA may not have seen the likes of Buster, the skating rooster.http://framework.latimes.com/2011/10...ating-rooster/


Quote:
A reporter and I were sent to a run-down part of town on South Alvarado Street to cover an apparent hit-and-run auto accident. Arriving on scene, we discovered that what had happened wasn’t much of a news story. There were no deaths, no injuries, and no damage to speak of .… As we were about to get back into our car and leave, a man who fit the stereotypical “wino” image stepped out of the small crowd and came over to me .…


In a voice that was soft and cultured, he said, “Mister, will you take my picture? I’m Billy Lehr.” I was about to tell him to get lost when I suddenly remembered a phone conversation I had had three weeks before with a New York picture agent. The agent told me that he had heard there was a dog in California that could roller skate. If I could find that dog and photograph him, I could make a lot of money. I looked at Lehr and said, “Sure I’ll take you picture, mister, if you have a dog that can roller skate.”
Without missing a beat, Lehr came back: “I don’t have a skating dog, but how about a rooster?”
1952

Last edited by Godzilla; Aug 10, 2018 at 3:16 PM.
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  #48227  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 3:38 PM
oldstuff oldstuff is offline
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My guess would be ice delivery ended sometime around the late 30's/early 40's. In 1939 Frank Zamboni closed his block ice business when demand shrank once refrigeration became more affordable, then used his refrigeration equipment to build Iceland (ice skating rink in Paramount), He then later used military surplus jeeps and parts to build his first resurfacing machine in 1949.

https://zamboni.com/about/zamboni-ar...zamboni-story/

The Wikipedia article on refrigerators states:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator
My house did not have an ice door, it was built in 1937, but it, and many in the neighborhood, had a "milk door". This allowed the milkman to put the milk inside, out of the sun, directly onto the kitchen counter. When my neighbor remodeled her house, she found one buried in what had been an outside wall of her kitchen, and could not figure out what it was.
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  #48228  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 3:46 PM
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The house I live in (built in 1946) still has a swamp cooler. No crystal radio, though.

- - -

There used to be a similar ice dispenser to the one above in my parents’ neighborhood, in nearby Burbank, specifically here (Google Maps).

It was finally removed sometime in the 90s. It was still in use, I’d see people getting ice out of it.

Here’s a photo I took of it, sometime in the mid to late 80s:



I wonder when this one was built. You can’t really tell from the photo, but it was old. Perhaps the 1950s?
I used to get ice at that one you pictured. It was a bit more expensive (but that's relative) than the one I usually went to which was located at a coin-op car wash on Victory, but it had nice even blocks which fit well into an ice chest. That one was where my uncle and cousins would get ice when they were making homemade ice cream. They would buy a block and chip it up with an ice pick to fit in the bucket. Yummy!
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  #48229  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 3:51 PM
Martin Pal Martin Pal is offline
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My house did not have an ice door, it was built in 1937, but it, and many in the neighborhood, had a "milk door". This allowed the milkman to put the milk inside, out of the sun, directly onto the kitchen counter.


I know some people who have a house on Hollywood Blvd., a bit west of Fairfax, that have one of those doors.
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  #48230  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 4:25 PM
Bristolian Bristolian is online now
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That streamline moderne sign proclaiming "Norm's Ice House" is delightful. It's lovelier than it has any right to be.

After cruising by in the Googlemobile, I see that it matches the chiropractor next door.
https://goo.gl/maps/QvhD3dq9wj12

Edit:
AND all the businesses in the strip mall facing Western, that the ice house and chiropractor are behind:
https://goo.gl/maps/2E7WJHAcex22
That streamline modern look is part of a makeover that was done to the property 10-15 years ago. Norm's Ice House had an aged but classic red white & blue theme up until that. I actually wanted to show that version but GSV doesn't go back to that era.
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  #48231  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 4:45 PM
oldstuff oldstuff is offline
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One way to date postcards such as these is to use the stamp box. The patterns changed over the years and there is some information online about various manufacturers.

https://www.playle.com/realphoto/index.php

It's not complete but it can often give you a decently specific time period. This site has an example PMC stamp box from 1907 that matches your postcard - diamonds in each of the 4 corners of the stamp box.
I ran a search for info on the addressee, Andy Bartko, but only found that he had been born in Austria Hungary in 1879, came to US in 1909 and lived in the same place in Toledo, Ohio up until he registered for the WWII draft in 1942. I had hoped maybe he had moved around so we could track the date of the card, but he was a very stable fellow. He was married, had five children, and lived in the same house the whole time. .

Last edited by oldstuff; Aug 10, 2018 at 5:13 PM.
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  #48232  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 5:14 PM
Godzilla Godzilla is offline
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Originally Posted by oldstuff View Post
My house did not have an ice door, it was built in 1937, but it, and many in the neighborhood, had a "milk door". This allowed the milkman to put the milk inside, out of the sun, directly onto the kitchen counter. When my neighbor remodeled her house, she found one buried in what had been an outside wall of her kitchen, and could not figure out what it was.
"Ice" in Los Angeles
>> https://www.kcet.org/shows/lost-la/h..._campaign=kcet


http://c590298.r98.cf2.rackcdn.com/SCA5_034.JPG

Ebay


The door could have had several purposes, or "re-purposes." It could have been vestigial, re ice delivery or a logical repository for dairy and bread deliveries. (First milk expiration date?*)


Other things teetering on extinction?


I recently noticed some round tube-like containers rusting by the roadside. It now occurs to me that they were for newspaper deliveries and are understandably becoming fewer and fewer. So many houses and apartments had built in "nooks" for a hard wired "house phone." I specifically recall one under a stairwell. Hidden, but accessible. There was even purpose-built furniture for sitting while using the phone, sometimes called a telephone desk or "gossip bench."







http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/...13dbe274e9.jpg





https://img1.etsystatic.com/019/0/81...12949_taeo.jpg



https://www.vizimac.com/wp-content/u...-with-Seat.jpg




*
Quote:
When shoppers shop for dairy products, more often than not they check the expiration date. What does it mean and why is it there?In most cases, the expiration date is a date set by a dairy bottler based on the number of days the product will retain its flavor following processing, which typically includes pasteurization, based on standard refrigeration practices.

Milk, for example, might be labeled by a certain dairy, for its freshness to expire 15 days after pasteurization. Some think of it as a "sell by" date, others consider it a "use by" date. If the milk has been properly refrigerated, it is typically safe for at least a week after the "sell by" date.
Recently, in New York City, the only city currently in the U.S. with its own expiration date requirements, the regulations have loosened from four days to nine days, and they have been debating eliminating the city ordinance altogether. Currently, NYC milk cartons have two dates - one of 15 days established by the industry, and a second one of nine days set by the NYC Board of Health.

Some think that is confusing, and unnecessary.

Why is milk dated? An unlikely answer to that can be found in, of all places, Alcatraz Island. During a tour of the former federal prison, a U.S. National Park ranger noted that Al Capone "lobbied for milk bottle dating to ensure the safety of the city's children."

Capone was a Chicago businessman who made a fortune in alcohol distribution during the brief period of Prohibition from 1920 to 1933. During this period, the demand for alcohol actually increased, with taverns being replaced with speakeasies, and the purveyors of "booze" labeled gangsters and racketeers.

Although Capone was sent to Alcatraz, it was for the white collar crime of evading taxes on the money he earned distributing alcohol, not for the numerous violent crimes attributed to him, such as the St. Valentine's Day Massacre.

Although the Federal government viewed Capone as a gangster, to many people in his adopted city of Chicago, he was a modern-day Robin Hood.
Capone was the first person to open a soup kitchen to feed the poor during the Depression. At a time of 25 percent unemployment, Capone's kitchens served three meals a day to ensure that everyone who had lost a job could get a meal. Soon, every city and town had a soup kitchen.
Capone did not only open them, but he would go to the soup kitchens and help serve the meals. These soup kitchens cost Capone thousands of dollars every day to keep running. It is said that Capone had a soft spot for people who were struggling.

It was reported that one of Capone's family members in Chicago became ill from drinking expired milk. At that time, there were no controls on milk production, neither expiration dates nor controls on adulteration, dilution or skimming of the cream.

This drew Capone's interest to the milk business, and he saw several things: the milk distribution business had a shady character - and Capone was comfortable with shady businesses; he didn't like to see people, especially children sickened by adulterated milk; he saw a potentially high profit in milk distribution; and with Prohibition soon to end, he had a fleet of trucks that could easily be used to transport milk.

Capone took two steps to move into the milk business. One was to acquire a milk processor, Meadowmoor Dairies. The other was to have the Chicago City Council pass a law requiring a visible date stamped on milk containers.
On the second item, it was likely that Capone had already cornered the market on equipment to stamp expiration dates on bottles, and the passage of the legislation would help him take over the Chicago milk market.
In 1930s Chicago, before refrigeration and supermarkets, milk was delivered by the milkman, a teamster's union member. The union controlled the distribution of milk, whose freshness depended on how long the milk sat around until the driver delivered it.

The unions would only deliver local milk. Meadowmoor Dairies wanted to import cheeper milk from Wisconsin, and wanted it delivered by their own nonunion truckers.

With the negotiations at a standstill, Capone's people reportedly kidnapped the union president and used the $50,000 ransom to purchase the dairy. The dairy was given as a present to Capone's attorney, William Parrillo. Meadowmoor Dairies opened three months before Capone went to prison.https://www.tnonline.com/2011/jun/18...tesy-al-capone
I believe NLA may have discussed Mr. Capone's brief visit to the Biltmore Hotel and a later stay at a dissimilar hotel on Terminal Island. If not, >> http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb...-then-20110206

Last edited by Godzilla; Aug 10, 2018 at 6:25 PM.
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  #48233  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 5:18 PM
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As ubiquitous as refrigerators are today, this was not always the case. When first introduced, refrigerators were not the most affordable appliances and often bought on credit. Exactly when they became "affordable" and "mainstream" is blurry, similar to the practical extinction of daily horse and buggy use. Not that I disagree with your guess, but one of the set pieces on the early '50s Honeymooners sitcom was . . . an icebox. This prompted the question of Los Angeles' last commercial ice delivery service. Considering that ice is still commercially available today, albeit in bags, one supposes that there may be an icebox still in use along with a swamp cooler and crystal radio set. Somewhat related, I recall seeing a 1930 advertisement for an apartment that was equipped with a central refrigeration unit and presume that was a "built-in" feature.
Ah, that's a great point about the Honeymooners ice box. It was before my time, so I only saw a clip here and there, and never noticed an ice box in their kitchen. I think the first time I saw an Ice Box was when watching A Streetcar Named Desire. Stella puts a plate of food in one for Stanley in that movie.

While I was writing my post about the ice box yesterday, I kept changing the date to early 50's then going back because I kept thinking about refrigerators being more affordable later on. I should have stuck with that.
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  #48234  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 5:29 PM
Noir_Noir Noir_Noir is offline
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I ran a search for info on the addressee, Andy Bartko, but only found that he had been born in Austria Hungary in 1879, came to US in 1909 and lived in the same place in Toledo, Ohio up until he registered for the WWII draft in 1942. I had hoped maybe he had moved around so we could track the date of the card, but he was a very stable fellow. He was married, had five children, and lived in the same house the whole time. .

I'm thinking it's Andy Bartko in the picture on the card. The card was not stamped or intended to be mailed - no full address but just denoting who is pictured and kept by a friend.
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  #48235  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by oldstuff View Post
I used to get ice at that one you pictured. It was a bit more expensive (but that's relative) than the one I usually went to which was located at a coin-op car wash on Victory, but it had nice even blocks which fit well into an ice chest. That one was where my uncle and cousins would get ice when they were making homemade ice cream. They would buy a block and chip it up with an ice pick to fit in the bucket. Yummy!
You must remember nearby Food Kart then, oldstuff! That’s where I would be headed with my mom when I would see the icebox.

LINK

It’s a bit hard to see in the above image, so here it is zoomed-in:



The Magnolia Theater (at left) has been covered before on Noirish LA.
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  #48236  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 6:24 PM
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Scott Charles Scott Charles is offline
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Very interesting stuff about Al Capone - thanks Godzilla!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
* I believe NLA may have discussed Mr. Capone's brief visit to the Biltmore Hotel and a later stay at a dissimilar hotel on Terminal Island. If not, >> http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb...-then-20110206
Capone did have one other bit of "temporary housing" whilst in LA - the Lincoln Heights Jail!

LAPL
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  #48237  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 7:12 PM
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the old Preuss Road

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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
This massive eucalyptus, pictured in 1928, once grew on Preuss Road near Beverly Hills.


lapl

I had no idea Robertson Blvd. used to be Preuss Road.
As it turns out, a short segment of Preuss Road still exists!

Robertson red / Preuss Road yellow

google earth

Maybe alot of you already knew this...but it was a fun afternoon discovery for simple ol' me.

and too...
AND BANDITS!

Los Angeles Herald - August 1, 1921

california digital newspapers

_______________________________________


info from my first post.

"This magnificent eucalyptus tree estimated at fifty years of age and considered the finest example of its species in the state, stands on Pruess Rd. (Robertson Blvd.), near Beverly Hils. Its owner, Alfred H. Whitworth, has resisted all efforts by real estate interests to have it cut down. Celebrities, like Cecil B. DeMille have offered to purchase it and present it to the city rather than see it cut down."
from lapl
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  #48238  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 7:38 PM
goodj037 goodj037 is offline
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Hello goodj037, and welcome to posting!

If I may ask you a question… is it possible to view the Sanborn maps online?
Hi Scott Charles! How odd. What you're describing sounds like the exact way I access it. The only thing I can think of is to try this link directly http://sanborn.umi.com.ezproxy.lapl.org/ or possibly try a different browser? Sorry I can't be of more help. That would make me crazy!
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  #48239  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by goodj037 View Post
Hi Scott Charles! How odd. What you're describing sounds like the exact way I access it. The only thing I can think of is to try this link directly http://sanborn.umi.com.ezproxy.lapl.org/ or possibly try a different browser? Sorry I can't be of more help. That would make me crazy!
Sadly, that didn't work either. I got this:

Quote:
This is loginbu.htm from the docs subdirectory. This file is sent if the username/password provided is not valid.

That username or password was incorrect. Please try again.
Like I said before, I am absolutely, 100%, rock-solid certain that my login credentials are correct and valid. Why it doesn't work is a complete mystery.

For months, I had the exact same problem with the LAPL’s photo archive. It would always reject my card number. But one day, I found an passworded-entry link that DID work, so I bookmarked and have used it ever since.

Thanks for your assistance, goodj037! I’ll find a way in some day!
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  #48240  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 9:13 PM
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OLeander5-5225 OLeander5-5225 is offline
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Oil in Salt Lake Oil Field near Beverly Center

While walking in my neighborhood known as Mid City West or Beverly Grove, I found at the corner of S. Flores Street and W. 3rd Street a pool of bubbling tar (research of the stuff from the 'net identifies it properly as asphalt). This piqued my interest and after doing some research, I found that my neighborhood was once a huge field of oil wells, sitting atop an old field called the Salt Lake Oil Field. And in fact, where the stuff is bubbling up is almost directly above an old plugged oil well. Made me think of that movie "Volcano" with Tommy Lee Jones. But various folks in my research have assured me this is quite common and is referred to as a "seep."

Anyone out there have photos of the oil fields in this area before it was residential? (pre 1936). Thanks!



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
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