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  #101  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 6:53 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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Windsor is probably the only sizable Black community in Canada that's pretty balanced between "old" Black Canadians and those of recent immigrant origin.
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  #102  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 12:44 PM
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Windsor is probably the only sizable Black community in Canada that's pretty balanced between "old" Black Canadians and those of recent immigrant origin.
I would think that’s true, lots of old black Canadians here, and recently, a fair amount of blacks that immigrated from Africa.
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  #103  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 9:20 PM
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There are actually two "sides" of Thornhill: the Vaughan side and the Markham side. The Markham side developed about a decade (built up 1960s/1970s) or two earlier and a lot of South African Jews moved there and make up a significant part of the Jewish population. The Vaughan side (built up 1980s/1990s) has a much bigger Jewish community and has a lot of Orthodox Jews, Russians and Israelis. Though today that community has filled up and expanded into Maple.
Great points. Ive noticed the Markham side is more old money-ish.and secular (or "kosher on passover" conservative types. Similar to Forest Hill South. Now I realize why.

I guess one could also compare Haliburton to the Catskills, NY
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  #104  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 2:06 AM
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Great points. Ive noticed the Markham side is more old money-ish.and secular (or "kosher on passover" conservative types. Similar to Forest Hill South. Now I realize why.
Some have described Bathurst St. as the Diaspora's biggest contigious Jewish community.

Bayview/Leslie developed as a secondary alternative I think because Bathurst hit a bottleneck before Vaughan opened up in the early 1980s. It had appealing housing that attracted a lot of affluent non-Orthodox Jews (and South Africans who were arriving immigrating at the time). Though that area is less Jewish than it used to be.

As for Bathurst, I'd say it looks something like this (roughly):

St. Clair to Eglinton: Wealthy, established, Reform and Conservative

Eglinton to Sheppard: Very Orthodox

Sheppard to Steeles: Very Russian

Vaughan: Orthodox, Russians, Israelis



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I guess one could also compare Haliburton to the Catskills, NY
Wouldn't Lake Simcoe (Balfour Beach) or the Kawarthas (Pontypool) be the closest TO equivalent?

Last edited by Docere; Jan 12, 2018 at 5:58 AM.
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  #105  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 3:31 AM
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Using my proxy measure for "old" Black Canadians (third generation or more, age 15+):

Out of 54,270, 45.9% are in Ontario. The next largest concentration is in Atlantic Canada (24.8%).
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  #106  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 4:24 PM
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The move to Dollard was kind of akin to the development of a secondary concentration of Jews around Bayview/Leslie in the 1970s. Since Montreal's Jewish community declined in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s a full fledged "Thornhill" never really developed.
Same as the move to Garden City in Winnipeg in the 1960s and 1970s -- the Jewish suburban dream. The Jewish middle class has kind of disappeared as most seem to be professional class now and live in wealthier areas.
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  #107  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 5:49 PM
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Same as the move to Garden City in Winnipeg in the 1960s and 1970s -- the Jewish suburban dream. The Jewish middle class has kind of disappeared as most seem to be professional class now and live in wealthier areas.
It's interesting to see how the Jewish community north of downtown has practically disappeared with barely a trace remaining. The "Jewish Tuxedo" streets of Garden City (Tanoak Park, Diplomat Drive) where the successful sons and daughters of immigrants built impressive suburb an homes in the 60s and 70s has lost nearly all of its Jewish residents. These days you can go there and buy Tuxedo-calibre homes at a steep discount... it's actually a little sad-looking now.

That area is a fascinating transition zone in the historical trajectory of Winnipeg's Jews. As far as I can tell it went North End > West Kildonan/Garden City > River Heights/Tuxedo. Of course, a large number left for places like Toronto or California.
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  #108  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 7:17 PM
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^ I had no clue Winnipeg once had a sizeable Jewish community. Really interesting stuff.
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  #109  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 8:47 PM
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^ There still is a fairly significant Jewish community in Winnipeg. In recent years there have even been a good number of recent arrivals from the usual places (Russia by way of Israel, South America) to bolster the numbers. Of course, the population is dwarfed by Ontario and Quebec's totals, but in terms of sheer numbers it's about the same amount that there is in BC and Alberta.
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  #110  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 9:42 PM
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^ There still is a fairly significant Jewish community in Winnipeg. In recent years there have even been a good number of recent arrivals from the usual places (Russia by way of Israel, South America) to bolster the numbers. Of course, the population is dwarfed by Ontario and Quebec's totals, but in terms of sheer numbers it's about the same amount that there is in BC and Alberta.
Winnipeg is likely still the third most Jewish city in Canada, in terms of metropolitan areas, but it is nothing like what it was (it used to be said that it was the most Jewish city in North America except New York early in the 20th century -- even if that was not quite true it was certainly not hard to believe). Even when I was a kid the leaders of the Manitoba Liberal and PC parties were both Jewish, as were several of the top NDP cabinet ministers under Premier Schreyer.
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  #111  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 9:57 PM
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I think Garden City is more akin to Bathurst Manor than Bayview - which was considered "state of the art" middle class Jewish suburbia in the 1960s. It's as if Bathurst was replaced by Bayview as the main corridor of Jewish residence.

Keep in mind that Toronto's Jewish community received a lot of post-war immigration, while Winnipeg is overwhelmingly the descendants of early 20th century immigrants. In Toronto, Forest Hill and York Mills are dominated by established non-Orthodox Jews with multigenerational roots (similar to River Heights and Tuxedo in that sense), while most of the Bathurst Corridor north of Eglinton has an Orthodox and/or immigrant character.

Toronto Jews were also more positioned in the "favored quarter" earlier. Forest Hill, the western end of the "favored quarter" was located directly north of the College-Spadina-Kensington area that was the heart of the Jewish community ca. 1930. Affluent Jews were already moving there in the 1930s and early 1940s and after WWII the bulk of the community began moving into Forest Hill and adjacent North York.

In contrast, Winnipeg Jews started in the North End, then moved to the northern suburbs. The more desirable sections of the city in the south, so initially the affluent were further away from the heart of the community.
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  #112  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
I think Garden City is more akin to Bathurst Manor than Bayview - which was considered "state of the art" middle class Jewish suburbia in the 1960s. It's as if Bathurst was replaced by Bayview as the main corridor of Jewish residence.

Keep in mind that Toronto's Jewish community received a lot of post-war immigration, while Winnipeg is overwhelmingly the descendants of early 20th century immigrants. In Toronto, Forest Hill and York Mills are dominated by established non-Orthodox Jews with multigenerational roots (similar to River Heights and Tuxedo in that sense), while most of the Bathurst Corridor north of Eglinton has an Orthodox and/or immigrant character.

Toronto Jews were also more positioned in the "favored quarter" earlier. Forest Hill, the western end of the "favored quarter" was located directly north of the College-Spadina-Kensington area that was the heart of the Jewish community ca. 1930. Affluent Jews were already moving there in the 1930s and early 1940s and after WWII the bulk of the community began moving into Forest Hill and adjacent North York.

In contrast, Winnipeg Jews started in the North End, then moved to the northern suburbs. The more desirable sections of the city in the south, so initially the affluent were further away from the heart of the community.
Moving to Forest Hill was like moving to Tuxedo in Winnipeg.Old-money River Heights, similar to Rosedale, wasn't quite as welcoming but eventually it also became fairly Jewish, as it remains. But there were always Jews in the South End as well -- I think the tipping point, when the south end finally outnumbered the north, was in the 1990s. After that North End Jewry, other than in Seven Oaks, pretty well disappeared. That also had to do with the decision to centralize so many of the main institutions at the Asper Centre in Tuxedo.
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  #113  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 10:24 PM
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Jewish population study of Winnipeg from 2011.

It says that in 1971, 53% of Jews lived in north Winnipeg and 39% in south Winnipeg. By 2011, 66% lived in the south and the traditional northern area had fallen to 12.5%.

http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studie...fm?FileID=3137
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  #114  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 10:31 PM
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Wasn't Tuxedo built up in the 1960s? It seems more akin to York Mills.
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  #115  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 11:49 PM
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Wasn't Tuxedo built up in the 1960s? It seems more akin to York Mills.
It was laid out before World War I but the first, northernmost, section was mostly built in the 1920s and 30s, with a lot of recent replacements (much like Forest Hill if not quite so extravagant). The central part was mostly built out from the 1950s-70s and a southern extension was added even more recently.

You can poke around on the assessment map here. Construction dates are indicated.
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  #116  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 5:02 PM
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Still seems more akin to York Mills to me, which has some pre-war housing but is overwhelmingly post-war. Forest Hill was fully built out by 1950.
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  #117  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 5:25 PM
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Still seems more akin to York Mills to me, which has some pre-war housing but is overwhelmingly post-war. Forest Hill was fully built out by 1950.
I wasn't thinking of the precise dates of construction so much as the way it fits into the pecking order of the rich and famous. It's the nouveau riche inner suburb immediately to the west of the old-money WASP suburb, much as Forest Hill is to Rosedale. I don't think Winnipeg is big enough to have a York Mills equivalent. Maybe the better parts of Charleswood would be a bit like that.
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  #118  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 6:00 PM
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Jewish concentrations in Toronto, Montreal and Winnipeg:

Toronto:

Thornhill (Vaughan) 46,175 39.6%
Bathurst Corridor - Sheppard/Steeles 18,750 21.2%
Forest Hill/Cedarvale 14,165 31.3%
Richmond Hill 11,735 6.4%
Thornhill (Markham) 7,185 15%
York Mills 5,990 20.5%
Annex/Yorkville 3,520 12.8%

Montreal:

Cote St. Luc 19,395 62.1%
Dollard 8,335 17%
Ville St. Laurent 7,060 7.7%
NDG/Montreal Ouest 5,585 7.9%
Hampstead 5,375 75.2%
Snowdon 5,355 18.3%
Cote de Nieges 5,335 8%
Outremont 4,610 20.1%
Westmount 4,485 23.2%

Winnipeg:

Tuxedo 2,990 14.7%
River Heights 2,510 11.5%
Crescentwood/Fort Rouge 1,305 5.1%
Garden City 1,110 3.8%

http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studies/canada.cfm

Last edited by Docere; Jan 14, 2018 at 6:31 PM.
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  #119  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 7:39 PM
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Jewish Canadians are very prominently concentrated in a few major cities. Within major cities they tend to be concentrated in distinct areas--ie. Thornhill in Toronto and the Hampstead-Cote de Neiges area in Montreal.

Jewish settlement patterns worldwide are like this. The metropolitan areas of New York and Tel Aviv together have nearly half of the entire world's Jewish population.
belleville had a synagogue when i lived there in 92-94, coming from BC i was surprised to see one in a small town, I don't think i've seen one outside of Vancouver in BC
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  #120  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 7:45 PM
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Hutterite

Total population: 45,000
80% of them live in Canada (est)
95% of Canadian Hutterites live on the Prairies (est)

Hutterites on the Canadian prairie. Their working language is German


http://www.larry-bolch.com/prairie/hutterites.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite
I grew up in NE BC we had a few hutterite communities, but they seem far more visible in Alberta, perhaps I never paid attention before in BC but see them all the time now, usually very blonde and they speak a weird version of german, its kinda like germglish or something its like half german half english. Sometimes you see some woman in jeans but they still wear the headcovering and then some break away entirely from the community but you can still see that they are from a hutterite community, they just seem to have a look to them.
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