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  #15661  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 8:47 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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I also wanted to mention that the endless delays in negotiations actually has little to do with technical negotiation and much more to do with politics, namely Mexican.

Many US politicians and economists beleive that the delays are due to people telling Trump that "negotiations" should be drawn out until at least summer because Mexicans head to the polls on July 1st and the current president Pena Nieto will not be running. Right now the leader in the polls is a Mr. Obrador who is a rather combative and very left-wing leader and has been very vocal about his dislike of Trump and that message is gaining ground in Mexico.

The last thing the US wants is a hard left-wing Mexican government and so Washington is dragging out the process. Of course anything could shoot out of Trump's industrial size mouth between now and July 1st/2018 which could further piss off Mexicans.
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  #15662  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Not replying to you directly, but I need an anchor so...

Age is not always a determining factor if someone is, for lack of a better term, a piece of shit.

This applies to the 12 and 14 year old boys who shot up the elementary school in Arkansas, and the two 10 year olds who lured 2 year old James Bulger and murdered him in the UK.

I guess the usual defence is that these kids had troubled upbringings that led them to commit such awful acts.

But that's true of Paul Bernardo as well - he also had a troubled childhood that contributed to him becoming a psycopath.

We don't in any way excuse adults who were abused as children if they commit heinous crimes, but before they turn 18 (say, at 17 and a half, or even 15?), it's somehow more of a valid excuse?

I mean, I am willing to see it taken into consideration, but only up to a certain point.
I agree. I was abused by a 16 year old when I was 4. As far as I'm concerned they knew fully what they were doing and deserve full culpability.

That being said I'm not sure it's so easy to paint Omar Khadr as simply a piece of shit. He was basically forced to go with his father was he not?
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  #15663  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
I agree. I was abused by a 16 year old when I was 4. As far as I'm concerned they knew fully what they were doing and deserve full culpability.

That being said I'm not sure it's so easy to paint Omar Khadr as simply a piece of shit. He was basically forced to go with his father was he not?
Oh, and I wasn't saying that Omar Khadr is equivalent to these other kids I mentioned.

His is an altogether different story. But I don't think he should automatically (have) be(en) exonerated for what he did just because he was 15 and not 18.

This isssue is a complex one. I also have an issue with the trend on the part of the United States and other countries calling anyone their army is fighting against "illegal combatants".

I mean, rank and file German Wehrmacht soldiers who were fighting to uphold an horrifically repressive Nazi régime, weren't labelled "illegal combatants", were they? They were just enemy soldiers.
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  #15664  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Oh, and I wasn't saying that Omar Khadr is equivalent to these other kids I mentioned.

His is an altogether different story. But I don't think he should automatically (have) be(en) exonerated for what he did just because he was 15 and not 18.

This isssue is a complex one. I also have an issue with the trend on the part of the United States and other countries calling anyone their army is fighting against "illegal combatants".

I mean, rank and file German Wehrmacht soldiers who were fighting to uphold an horrifically repressive Nazi régime, weren't labelled "illegal combatants", were they? They were just enemy soldiers.
There is a difference.

The German Wehrmacht followed this definition:

Legal Definition of lawful combatant
1 : a member of the armed forces of a party (as a nation) to a military conflict
2 : a member of a militia or other volunteer corps of a party to a military conflict that is i) commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates, ii) has a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, iii) carries arms openly, and iv) conducts operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war
NOTE: The Third Geneva Convention sets out the characteristics of a lawful combatant. Under the Convention, a lawful combatant is entitled to status of prisoner of war and must be given all the rights guaranteed by that status.


ISIS and others of their ilk follow this definition

Legal Definition of enemy combatant
: a person who engages in a military conflict but who is not a lawful combatant — called also unlawful combatant
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  #15665  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
There is a difference.

The German Wehrmacht followed this definition:

Legal Definition of lawful combatant
1 : a member of the armed forces of a party (as a nation) to a military conflict
2 : a member of a militia or other volunteer corps of a party to a military conflict that is i) commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates, ii) has a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, iii) carries arms openly, and iv) conducts operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war
NOTE: The Third Geneva Convention sets out the characteristics of a lawful combatant. Under the Convention, a lawful combatant is entitled to status of prisoner of war and must be given all the rights guaranteed by that status.


ISIS and others of their ilk follow this definition

Legal Definition of enemy combatant
: a person who engages in a military conflict but who is not a lawful combatant — called also unlawful combatant
I know but you have to admit that there is a self-serving aspect to this trend that allows for the "cutting of corners" (cough) when some of these guys end up in your hands.

Not that I am going to shed any tears for ISIS and company...
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  #15666  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I know but you have to admit that there is a self-serving aspect to this trend that allows for the "cutting of corners" (cough) when some of these guys end up in your hands.

Not that I am going to shed any tears for ISIS and company...
Isn't that the goal of fighting against the infidel? They are just being aided in their journey.
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  #15667  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 10:51 PM
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Isn't that the goal of fighting against the infidel? They are just being aided in their journey.
Good riddance to bad rubbish, as you guys say.
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  #15668  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
FYI Paul Bernardo has been housed in a 1.5 meter by 3 meters cell, for 23 hours a day, in solitary confinement, for 18 years.

IMO It is an open question whether our criminal justice system is based on something other than retribution and closure for victims.
Not for a number of years now, I think.
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  #15669  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 12:14 AM
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I totally agree with Trudeau on this. He has to make it clear to the Americans that if the US pulls out of NAFTA with Canada there will be real economic repercussions for the US as well. The Americans have to know that if they pull out, Canada can also play hardball and won't take it lying down.

Trump must know that they the US also has a lot to lose {as his Governors have been telling him} that tens of millions of jobs in the US rely on Canada as an export market and NAFTA with Canada. Unlike Mexico, trade with Canada is not a one-way street, and we have basically a trade balance.
Mexico has a big trade surplus with the USA (something like $60billion), but the USA exports to Mexico were worth over $220billion last year, so there seems to be a lot of two way traffic on that "one way street".
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  #15670  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 3:21 PM
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http://business.financialpost.com/co...-energy-policy

Congratulations Canada, because of the regulations put in place by our governments in power, we have essentially regressed in all of our objectives, when compared to our largest trading partner. Unlike our American counterparts, whom don't have all the red tape our so almighty governments put up thinking its in the best interest of our economy, and global environment, the USA, while GROWING its energy industry, the US oil and gas industry, are achieving objectives the Canadian governments put in place, that is lowering GHG emissions, economic growth and job creation, market diversification and greater innovation.

It's an absolute travesty these governments decide to be "heroes of the environment" all the while doing more harm, environmentally, economically, and socially.... the entire country's economy, social system, and environment could piggyback off the benefits the energy industry is missing out on.

Again, congratulations Canada for intentionally missing out on these enormous benefits, and limiting our potential and prosperity as a country.
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  #15671  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 3:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
ISIS and others of their ilk follow this definition

Legal Definition of enemy combatant
: a person who engages in a military conflict but who is not a lawful combatant — called also unlawful combatant

So if they actually formed the caliphate and put people in uniform everything would be hunky dory?

Not shedding any tears when an ISIS fighter dies but the whole definition is pretty ridiculous. Functionally groups that the west recognizes such as the YPG and even the Peshmerga aren't really any more organized than ISIS was at it's height. As Acajack said there's certainly a bit of a self-serving aspect. Which I don't really have a problem with FWIW.
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  #15672  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
http://business.financialpost.com/co...-energy-policy

Congratulations Canada, because of the regulations put in place by our governments in power, we have essentially regressed in all of our objectives, when compared to our largest trading partner. Unlike our American counterparts, whom don't have all the red tape our so almighty governments put up thinking its in the best interest of our economy, and global environment, the USA, while GROWING its energy industry, the US oil and gas industry, are achieving objectives the Canadian governments put in place, that is lowering GHG emissions, economic growth and job creation, market diversification and greater innovation.

It's an absolute travesty these governments decide to be "heroes of the environment" all the while doing more harm, environmentally, economically, and socially.... the entire country's economy, social system, and environment could piggyback off the benefits the energy industry is missing out on.

Again, congratulations Canada for intentionally missing out on these enormous benefits, and limiting our potential and prosperity as a country.
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  #15673  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
I actually make that face when I think about Donald Trump's energy policy better for the environment and economy than Justin Trudeau's. Every Canadian should be making that face.
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  #15674  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 4:19 PM
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I actually make that face when I think about Donald Trump's energy policy better for the environment and economy than Justin Trudeau's. Every Canadian should be making that face.
How is Trump’s energy policy better for the environment? He’s opening up offshore drilling on every coast and reducing national parks to allow for more drilling? Not to mention his petroleum zealot in the EPA wants to allow companies to dump fracking chemicals into the gulf of Mexico.

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  #15675  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 4:22 PM
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Trump pulling out of the toothless Paris agreement emboldened cities and states to pursue their own climate mandates, adding legislative teeth to emission reduction targets, and subsequently set the USA on a path of meeting the Paris agreement reductions, which they weren't previously on.

I do wonder if Clinton being elected would have had the same effect, but I doubt it.

Trump is no friend to the environment of course, but his ability to get citizens engaged in politics and react to his administration is actually having widespread positive effects across the board, including climate change.

I wonder if we might not have seen a similar effect in Canada if Harper was re-elected, versus the general apathetic malaise that has gripped Canada since Trudeau was elected.
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  #15676  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 4:31 PM
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Trump pulling out of the toothless Paris agreement emboldened cities and states to pursue their own climate mandates, adding legislative teeth to emission reduction targets, and subsequently set the USA on a path of meeting the Paris agreement reductions, which they weren't previously on.

I do wonder if Clinton being elected would have had the same effect, but I doubt it.

Trump is no friend to the environment of course, but his ability to get citizens engaged in politics and react to his administration is actually having widespread positive effects across the board, including climate change.

I wonder if we might not have seen a similar effect in Canada if Harper was re-elected, versus the general apathetic malaise that has gripped Canada since Trudeau was elected.
There has been push back for sure but the lasting impacts Scott Pruitt and Ryan Zinke will have on the environment in the continental U.S.A. has yet to be determined. Look no further than the clawbacks on regulation to allow things like fracking chemicals to be dumped into the ocean or the opening up of all offshore waters to drilling or the redrawing of national parks. I suppose since Trump was able to undo all of Obama's legislation the next Democrat could theoretically do the same with Trump's but there's no way of knowing if that will happen.

Not to mention garbage like this:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/21/homepa...nvs/index.html

Yes, let's endanger the most valuable salmon fishery in the world for a gold mine. Sounds like a brilliant idea!
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Last edited by O-tacular; Jan 12, 2018 at 4:43 PM.
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  #15677  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 5:28 PM
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Honest question. Will setting up a free trade agreement with China help, or hinder, the global environment?
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  #15678  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 5:47 PM
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Honest question. Will setting up a free trade agreement with China help, or hinder, the global environment?
It depends. I would worry about the Chinese trying to water down our regulations. That being said I don't think it would have an enormous global impact as China already produces the most goods of seemingly anywhere on the planet.
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  #15679  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 4:00 PM
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https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bbc....-east-42668841

Saudi Arabia allows women at football game for first time

Amazing!

Even more amazing is the federal and eastern politicians whom would rather source their energy needs from such a country, that has, up until now, not allowed women to attend football games, rather than support their western provincial allies that have for so long contributed to their economic well being (have vs have not provinces)

Even more crazy, that while Saudi Arabia has now let women attend games, they are still required to enter at segregated entrances, and segregated seating areas.

Amazing that former Quebec premier actually celebrated the demise of energy east pipeline, and favoring Saudi Arabian energy, that requires to be shipped around the world from such a backwards country.

And we are concerned about Trump making remarks about a $h!+hole country in Africa... would it be wrong and justifiable to call Saudi Arabia a sh**hole country??
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  #15680  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Mexico has a big trade surplus with the USA (something like $60billion), but the USA exports to Mexico were worth over $220billion last year, so there seems to be a lot of two way traffic on that "one way street".
That is a valid point and perhaps I should have been more specific. I certainly know that the US exports a lot to Mexico but the issue is that there is a huge trade deficit. In other words Americans see little net value in free trade with Mexico and the average citizen views such large discrepancies as proof of the US "getting screwed" by NAFTA. The fact that it is with Mexico also makes for a withdrawal from NAFTA with Mexico popular with Americans and politically palatable.

Canada, on the other hand, has a basic trade balance with the US and we are certainly not viewed as the country where all the manufacturing jobs are going to for dirt cheap labour. In other words Canada is seen as not only a good neighbour but also a fare free trade country.

There will be small changes with NAFTA and perhaps a technical withdrawal but due to political and economic pressures a trade deal with Canada will be VERY quickly reinstated. It's Mexico that will be kicked out with little empathy from most Americans {including many Democrats} but Canada has little to worry about.
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