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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 4:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
I would call it for London. It is much more internationalised than New York due to its smaller national hinterland, its imperial legacy, and its political importance.

You feel its weight in the NGO sphere, in the institutional sphere, and unlike a Geneva it backs it up with real capital, real banks and real oligarchs.

London is the capital of globalisation, of the emerging order.

I find the Square Mile to be one of the more ominous places I've ever been.
I can definitely see the case for London.

To me at this point the U.S. is basically everyone in the world's (well sorta kinda - you get my point) second national culture. There is a familiarity with the U.S. and by extension NYC that billions of people around the world have. London has some of that too of course as British culture also has strong global reach, but not quite to the same degree.

And of course there is the fact the NYC is home to the United Nations and a bunch of other international organizations.
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by kirjtc2 View Post
I've noticed when CBC does regional programming (late night TV news or the noon radio show), they'll often give Newfoundland their own show while New Brunswick - with a larger population! - has to mooch off Halifax's, which then barely acknowledges we exist.
And yet your typical Haligonian will take great umbrage when there is a news item about a triple murder in Edmundston which displaces the story about the local Halifax kennel club's annual pageant, where Mrs. Maloney's corgi "Moonbeam" won best of show.........

Center of the universe indeed.........
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 4:22 PM
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Hollywood and the American media machine have really built up NYC to be more than it is. London is highly underrated this side of the pond. It still is the world's most influential international metropolis (oozing with gravitas), eventhough the UK as a whole is now clearly a 2nd tier nation, not much more important than Canada or Spain.
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 4:30 PM
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Hollywood and the American media machine have really built up NYC to be more than it is. London is highly underrated this side of the pond. It still is the world's most influential international metropolis (oozing with gravitas), eventhough the UK as a whole is now clearly a 2nd tier nation, not much more important than Canada or Spain.
My view is not really North American-centric, though.

In terms of imagery and other identifiers and reference markers, even continental Europeans tend to have a clearer and greater focus on NYC than they do on London. (Which is not to say that London is out of mind completely.)

I can say this with some assurance for several nationalities, and have no reason to suspect most of the others are any different.
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 4:32 PM
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I've noticed when CBC does regional programming (late night TV news or the noon radio show), they'll often give Newfoundland their own show while New Brunswick - with a larger population! - has to mooch off Halifax's, which then barely acknowledges we exist.
A lot of it is a reflection of the market as opposed to any conscious plan by CBC. I bet viewership numbers would show New Brunwickers will watch these regional shows while Newfoundlanders will not, and advertising dollars would probably follow this pattern as well.

CBC Here & Now, their hour-long evening news program in St. John's, tanked in the ratings when CBC tried to make it 30 minutes local, and 30 minutes with the national anchors. It was a cold business decision to restore our hour-long newscast to protect their market share (and they still haven't fully recovered, people dropped it so quickly and completely for Newfoundland Television's evening news hour, which is objectively inferior in every possible way).

You see that defense of place in everything. We are one of the only places on earth where Pepsi is more popular than Coke, solely because Coke closed their bottling plant here while Pepsi's is still in operation. There are numerous gas stations, restaurants, etc. that refuse to serve Coke. I think you don't find that unity and stubbornness in New Brunswick so they can just lump you in with Halifax and you take it.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 4:35 PM
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NYC is more iconic, that I'd agree. NYC is visual shorthand for the very idea of the great city.

But London... London has a lot of real power, sometimes even secretive power running in its veins. London invented modern intelligence technique, and is still very, very good at it.

Were DC and NYC one city, it would be different...
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  #67  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:02 PM
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Then there are the masses of immigrant service workers who flock to these cities. Their family network may extend to their brothers and sisters who emigrated to similar world cities a continent away; I knew the sons and daughters of Filipino warehouse workers in Toronto who had cousins in Frankfurt, for example. Many of them barely knew of Canada beyond Niagara Falls, and as soon as they earned money (which they all did, very successfully), they went to Montreal and Vancouver, but did all of the rest of their traveling in the US or abroad.
Yet if you look at the data from the last Canadian census you'll see the proportion of recent immigrants is similar or higher in cities like Saskatoon. Toronto used to receive a much higher proportion of Canada's immigrants than it does today. I think its overall demographic growth has slowed down a bit too.

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Incidentally, while Vancouver receives more than its share of global capital flows, I feel that it hasn't received any of the benefits of globalism (they exist). Vancouver is getting screwed over by globalization, but more in the way that Venice is getting screwed over, not in the way that West Virginia or the British Midlands are.
I agree with this but it sounds like it's an argument that Vancouver is a global city too, to some degree, for better or worse. I am not trying to set up straw men but it sounds like some people (not you) argue that Toronto is the special Canadian city that acts as the national interface to the rest of the world. It sounds like we agree that this isn't the case.

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I think the opposite is happening. The spread of transportation links has ironically strengthened the pull of these cities, rather than the other way around. For example, HSR is used in places like France as basically a commuter rail to funnel workers into Paris from the hinterlands, rather than injected new life into the countryside. North America has a decentralized transportation system, but it hasn't stopped firms and people from concentrating in major metropolitan areas.
I think it depends on where you are talking about. The industrial areas that lost jobs to developing countries are worse off for sure. But I am not sure that regional hubs in Canada are worse off today than they were in past decades. Part of the reason for this is that Canada is physically large and hard to travel around in, and part of it is that the provinces have a lot of power. They are almost as independent and powerful as some countries.

Maybe these regional places are bound to die eventually, but then again it is difficult to predict what will happen in 5 or 10 years. I think something will give eventually; I don't think we are inevitably converging on a world where one person owns 100% of the wealth.
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  #68  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
NYC is more iconic, that I'd agree. NYC is visual shorthand for the very idea of the great city.

But London... London has a lot of real power, sometimes even secretive power running in its veins. London invented modern intelligence technique, and is still very, very good at it.

Were DC and NYC one city, it would be different...
Global city relevance to me is kind of a mix between actual power (subtle or overt) and, for lack of a better term, prestige.
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  #69  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:09 PM
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Can anyone expand on the language and region dynamics of Belgium? The posts on Switzerland were interesting and something I hadn't considered before.

It seems like Brussels is everything to Belgium. Plus the EU is HQ there. The only other city I hear about is Antwerp, but only because of the diamond trade. And I suppose Bruges because of the movie In Bruges and also because that's where Dr. Evil is from.

I assume the Dutch and German speakers have their own regional epicentre, but do they also have deep connections to this day to say Amsterdam and Frankfurt? Does Brussels get a lot of financing from Paris?
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  #70  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
A lot of it is a reflection of the market as opposed to any conscious plan by CBC. I bet viewership numbers would show New Brunwickers will watch these regional shows while Newfoundlanders will not, and advertising dollars would probably follow this pattern as well.

CBC Here & Now, their hour-long evening news program in St. John's, tanked in the ratings when CBC tried to make it 30 minutes local, and 30 minutes with the national anchors. It was a cold business decision to restore our hour-long newscast to protect their market share (and they still haven't fully recovered, people dropped it so quickly and completely for Newfoundland Television's evening news hour, which is objectively inferior in every possible way).

You see that defense of place in everything. We are one of the only places on earth where Pepsi is more popular than Coke, solely because Coke closed their bottling plant here while Pepsi's is still in operation. There are numerous gas stations, restaurants, etc. that refuse to serve Coke. I think you don't find that unity and stubbornness in New Brunswick so they can just lump you in with Halifax and you take it.
Keep in mind also that the "base" market for the CBC's English services in New Brunswick is about the same size as in Newfoundland: around half a million people.

New Brunswick has about 750,000 people but about one third of them are francophones.

Obviously there may be some francophone New Brunswickers who are consumers of CBC English programming, but not that many in the grand scheme of things.
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  #71  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Global city relevance to me is kind of a mix between actual power (subtle or overt) and, for lack of a better term, prestige.
Well London is certainly a "prestige" city, plus the fact that it combines both economic and political power. You also shouldn't underestimate the power of the BBC worldwide in maintaining London's prominence. In many parts of the world, there is no freedom of the press and the BBC has become the de facto broadcaster of the political opposition. The BBC broadcasts in dozens of languages.

NYC, although a leading candidate for "capital of the world" has to share power with Washington (as political capital of the US) and suffers from the fact it is located in the new world rather than the old. It also isn't a centre of international media the same way London is........
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  #72  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:17 PM
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Global city relevance to me is kind of a mix between actual power (subtle or overt) and, for lack of a better term, prestige.
You ask the average person in Europe, the Middle-East or Asia where they'd rather live or study between those two cities and it wouldn't even be close. Incidentally, the BBC is watched or listened to more than anything based out of NYC and the Financial Times has more pull with decision makers around the world than the Wall Street Journal. London is also architecturally more beautiful and socially more lively than NYC.
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  #73  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:18 PM
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Obviously there may be some francophone New Brunswickers who are consumers of CBC English programming, but not that many in the grand scheme of things.
Actually I think far more francophones in NB watch CTV News out of Halifax rather than Radio Canada in Moncton. The local CBC newscast from Fredericton isn't watched by anyone (even Frederictonians).
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  #74  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:20 PM
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Can anyone expand on the language and region dynamics of Belgium? The posts on Switzerland were interesting and something I hadn't considered before.

It seems like Brussels is everything to Belgium. Plus the EU is HQ there. The only other city I hear about is Antwerp, but only because of the diamond trade. And I suppose Bruges because of the movie In Bruges and also because that's where Dr. Evil is from.

I assume the Dutch and German speakers have their own regional epicentre, but do they also have deep connections to this day to say Amsterdam and Frankfurt? Does Brussels get a lot of financing from Paris?
Brussels is historically a part of Flanders, even though it is (now) majority french-speaking.
largest Metro areas of Belgium
Brussels 2,608,000 (historically Flanders, but majority French, and now its own region)
Antwerp 1,091,000 (Flanders)
Liège 744,000 (Wallonia)
Ghent 591,000 (Flanders)
Charleroi 488,000 (Wallonia)

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Historically a Dutch-speaking city, Brussels has seen a language shift to French from the late 19th century onwards. Today, the majority language is French, and the Brussels-Capital Region is an officially bilingual enclave within the Flemish Region. All road signs, street names, and many advertisements and services are shown in both languages

wikipedia

French was considered the lingua franca among elites in Belgium for much of the past century (Even among many Dutch-Speaking Flemish, including some of my ancestors). Tables have turned somewhat, with an inevitable counter reaction from the hithertoo underclass Flemish (not unlike Quebec's situation, but there with French vis-a-vis English), who are now on top, economically-speaking. Without a strong central state, Belgium has descended into extreme bickering along language lines.
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  #75  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:21 PM
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Actually I think far more francophones in NB watch CTV News out of Halifax rather than Radio Canada in Moncton. The local CBC newscast from Fredericton isn't watched by anyone (even Frederictonians).
In the Greater Moncton area perhaps but certainly not to any significant degree in places north or northwest of the Centennial Bridge in Miramichi!
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  #76  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:26 PM
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Brussels is historically a part of Flanders, even though it is (now) majority french-speaking.
largest Metro areas of Belgium
Brussels 2,608,000 (historically Flanders, but majority French, and now its own region)
Antwerp 1,091,000 (Flanders)
Liège 744,000 (Wallonia)
Ghent 591,000 (Flanders)
Charleroi 488,000 (Wallonia)


wikipedia
Holy cow - Brussels is bigger than I thought. I thought oft-overlooked Antwerp was closer to it in population than that.

Another thing about Brussels is it is mainly francophone at this point but is in enclaved in Flemish territory. To the south of the city there is maybe a 30-40 km band of Flemish territory before you get into French-speaking Wallonia.

As urban sprawl is a global phenomenon there as elsewhere, "Bruxellization" for lack of a better term has spilled over into neighbouring parts of Flanders. This has brought more French speakers from Brussels and a greater presence of French in public life in areas that legally speaking are fairly strictly Flemish only.

A handful of towns that are on Flemish soil but effectively Brussels suburbs are now majority French speaking. And this causes all sorts of tensions.
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  #77  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:27 PM
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Actually I think far more francophones in NB watch CTV News out of Halifax rather than Radio Canada in Moncton. The local CBC newscast from Fredericton isn't watched by anyone (even Frederictonians).
I watch it. It has its faults but CBC is all we have for real journalism in this province.
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  #78  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:33 PM
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I agree with this but it sounds like it's an argument that Vancouver is a global city too, to some degree, for better or worse. I am not trying to set up straw men but it sounds like some people (not you) argue that Toronto is the special Canadian city that acts as the national interface to the rest of the world. It sounds like we agree that this isn't the case.


.
What's ironic is that for all of the rhetoric about Toronto being Canada's global interface, in much of the country it's not really an essential middle man at all for accessing the wider world.

In a sense, Toronto's true strength and realm is much more an in-Canada thing. It's actually way more about deciding whether or not Canadians will have access to a new brand of breakfast cereal and how it will be marketed to them, where national retailers will open new big box stores, what will appear in most of the English-language textbooks used in public schools, and whether or not your mortgage application will be approved...
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  #79  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:34 PM
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I watch it. It has its faults but CBC is all we have for real journalism in this province.
I remember as a kid the CBC news broadcast for NB was produced by CHSJ in Saint John.
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  #80  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:42 PM
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I remember as a kid the CBC news broadcast for NB was produced by CHSJ in Saint John.
CHSJ was an (Irving owned) independent TV station that was affiliated with the CBC. NB had the distinction of being the only province in the federation without a state broadcaster TV station up until the late 1980s. CBC decided to buy out CHSJ and moved the station to Fredericton.
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