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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2012, 3:30 PM
dartmouthy dartmouthy is offline
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Smile Dartmouth Needs Development (DND)

Hey everyone,
I didn't see an activism section, so I'll be brief

I am looking to organize as many pro-development people as I can for political clout - to help move some of these stalled and rejected proposals ahead... Other than Kings Wharf they are all getting "rejected". Time to stop this trend!
Please feel free to join my group if you would like to take part in the discussion, thanks.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/324078344343237/

This is Dartmouth's time, and on the issue of development, there must be no delay, or no hesitation, or no compromise with our purpose. We cannot, we must not, refuse developers who wish to make sizeable investments in our community. We must realize it is our duty to be invloved in the process, to lobby politicians and developers for changes we would like to see. We must take ownership of our fair city as we all realize the potential it has.

And we ought not, and we cannot, and we must not wait another eight months before we get started. We have already waited 250 years and more and the time for waiting is gone. So I ask you to join me in working to advance the important discussion on Development in Dartmouth.

But even if we influence one development foward, the overall battle will not be over. What we need here in Dartmouth is a larger movement which reaches into every neighbourhood of our City. It is the effort of Dartmouthians to secure for themselves the full blessings of life through sensible forward-thinking urban development. This is our cause. We must overcome the crippling legacy of the very vocal, small mided minority.

We shall overcome.
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  #2  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2012, 4:01 PM
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Jstaleness Jstaleness is offline
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I don't have a facebook account but I fully support the movement.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2012, 5:57 PM
dartmouthy dartmouthy is offline
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Thank you for any and all support you can muster. We'll need it. The luddites are everywhere, and I am done with having ignorance and mis-truths drive our city's development. It stops here and now! Please share this with anyone you think might be interested. The more numbers we have, the more of a cohesive voting block we are to city council - and the more credence our views will be given.

This is what we are up against:

"Hi George, I have looked at the comments on the Dartmouth needs Development site and I find their site to be non objective. They believe we are not for development and don't seem to grasp the basic right of a tax payer to have a say in their neighborhood. Perhaps they should do their homework and look at what COUNCIL's criteria actually stated was to be planned for Downtown Dartmouth. It has already been acknowledged by the councillor that the proposed development for the bowling alley site fell way short of the requirements set by council. Imagine that...Shame on the local residents for calling the developer on his mediocre plan. I guess we should never question authority and blindly follow the money vision. ALL HAIL BLIND DEVELOPMENT.

Perhaps us WHINERS should just forget about the property taxes we pay and the time invested in our neighborhoods and just lay down and let others ruin it...Not bloody likely.

This is OUR neighborhood. WE ACTUALLY OWN THE LAND in it, and we contribute to the tax base. Therefore our word will carry weight with council regardless of our numbers."

Yikes...

The basic right of a tax payer or resident to have a say in their neighbourhood has occurred twice already, and will occur twice more before this development has it's day at council. I grasp that. Just because I don't agree with their narrow definition as to what development means, doesn't mean I don't think they shouldn't be able to voice their opinion. But like those that believe the world is still flat, don't expect me to hold a straight face for long.

I have looked at Council's criteria - they most certainly support intensification and increased development anywhere within the beltway of Dartmouth. They realize that for the city to survive fiscally, we need a counterpoint to the relatively unchecked suburban development as of late all around the municipality. They understand city services are already on site, streets and side walks already exist, and that they will profit from the taxes payed by those in new development s free and clear of the costs normally assicuated with suburban development where none of this infrastructure exists.

I haven't acknowledged that the proposed develpoment falls short of the requirements set forth by council because it doesn't - that is why these folks concerns are falling on deaf ears. Thank goodness the city "gets it".

As far as blindly following money and development - If someone wants to spend $70 milion in my city, I don't have my knee-jerk reaction set to "NO"... There is a market for rentals in the area - I know, I rent. There are two apartments for rent right now within a two kilometre raidus of the site. We need the development.

All of Dartmouth is invested in our Downtown, and just because I cannot afford to live there any longer, doesn't mean I will give up on more development that will open up more spaces for families of all make-ups, not just those who want a three bedroom apartment... I lived in the area, on Wentworth Street, and on Thompson Avenue, for the first twenty years of my life. I am invested, and their status as "taxpayers in the area" won't dissuade my ideals for Dartmouth ever.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2012, 6:19 PM
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You can't really debate with somebody when they're making emotional appeals to their rights as a property owner, etc. It's not even clear what "having a say" means or what this guy wants.

It's best to focus on the developments, their impact, and municipal planning regulations. I do not think the massing of that development is very good but it is a workable site for highrise development.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2012, 8:06 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Yeah, these people mis-use the democratic process.

This isn't a communist country, YOU DON'T OWN THE LAND... we have private ownership in Canada.

They latch onto councils ideas as if they were brought down from the mountain, when in reality its a flawed system that they can hide behind.

The moral highground stuff is ridiculous. These people are out to lunch and are really infringing on everybody else's rights instead of protecting their own.

The funniest part: ruining the community of Dartmouth... let's be honest, it can only get better. I don't know what these folks are on, potentially bath salts.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2012, 11:18 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Both extremes can be criticized. Certainly the Facebook poster is wrong when he claims we own the land and hence should be able to determine what goes there. But I think the developer, Mr. Dixon, has proposed something that is far too bulky, boxy, and does not respect the neighboring buildings very well. He is attempting to jam too many units onto those lots. He would be better served going higher and slimmer.

We need balance.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2012, 5:01 PM
dartmouthy dartmouthy is offline
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Thanks for the input everyone.

Keith I tend to agree on your point of the design, yet the design itself isn't taller, more slender, and less likely to cause shadow impacts, because this same group of people they are trying to oppose it wouldn't have it - it's been five years for this developer trying to get this going.

When someone shows up in my city to spend $70 million, I don't have my knee jerk reaction set to "No". Their input is valuable, as everyone's is like you said. But as an extreme. At that meeting they made sure to spend like 15-20 minutes each telling off city staff and just making general asses of themselves. I can't imagine that plays well to city staff or council. If I am the counterpoint to that, so be it

We can't continue to have development policy driven by ignorance, bigotry (which reared it's ugly head a few times at the meeting, like when an openly gay home-owner and friend of mine who lives right across the street from the development finally got his chance to come up to the mic in support of this project).

I know there are way more people focused on productive, positive improvements in this city. I know this project, especially with the involvement of the Sackville Rivers Association (they want to build a salmon ladder as a part of this project to give fish their route to the lake back), with the Canal commission (as they want to daylight the Canal as a part of this project) has a lot of promise, and that bonusing is happening because of the developers flexibility and vision, not because they are being forced by the city.

All in all - if I am simply a stooge for development, so be it. I'd rather be that than the opposite any day of the week.

We've had more than 260 years of "growth management" happening in our city, from various levels (The English crown, Canada, Nova Scotia, and our own city council - not to mention those with selfish vested interests because of ignorance and mis-information). Not any longer!
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 10:30 AM
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PoscStudent PoscStudent is offline
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So what exactly is the problem in Dartmouth? Is it just difficulty in getting the council to approve developments due to some people who oppose them?
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 3:44 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
So what exactly is the problem in Dartmouth? Is it just difficulty in getting the council to approve developments due to some people who oppose them?
Dartmouth isn't homogeneous and there are all sorts of resistance for various reasons in different areas such as anything around Banook or downtown around the common.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 9:22 PM
FuzzyWuz FuzzyWuz is offline
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I'm a bit confused. Who are you saying does not own what land? Does a person who bought a house not own the land the house is on? Or was the facebook poster saying something different?
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  #11  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
Dartmouth isn't homogeneous and there are all sorts of resistance for various reasons in different areas such as anything around Banook or downtown around the common.
So the council hasn't approved the developments then.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 11:38 PM
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There are different proposals and the story of each is different.

Most recently there was a public presentation of a proposal for Irishtown Road. Some people may have spoken against it (frequently that is of no consequence whatsoever) but nothing has happened yet. As Keith P. pointed out, it's also important to understand that there are legitimate design problems with the Irishtown Rd. proposal as it stands.

A few blocks away, multiple highrises are under construction at King's Wharf. Aside from that there have been quite a few other successful construction projects in downtown Dartmouth in recent years, like Founder's Corner, that "Darkside" building, the Greenvale Lofts, etc. Contrary to popular belief downtown Dartmouth has actually been a fairly active area for new construction for the past 10 years or so.

There was another proposal for a 15 storey apartment building that was voted down by the Harbour East Community Council but that was by Lake Banook. It's not really the same neighbourhood.
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  #13  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2012, 2:26 AM
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So what is the idea behind this Facebook group? Rally pro-developer to attend public hearings to have their voices heard?
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