London Roads

[MolsonExport]

More than one person has told me that the mayor/council are in cahoots with developers. Heck, didn't Gosnell consult on greenfield development for Walfart?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

We need also to focus on redevelopment and intensification in and around the core. Seeing the sprawl that still goes on everywhere, it's cul-de-sacs, dead-ends and curvy roads that go nowhere.

Hope that can change, but London is still developing in the residential areas like it's 1970 still. Nothing in London that I've seen is anything modern along the lines with back lanes, a street grid system, etc.

Not going to happen as long as focus groups keep telling developers they like these suburban disasters ("I like my quiet cul-de-sac", "I like driving 15 minutes to get groceries", "I like having a big backyard and I don't have to see my neighbours"), and the City continues to lack the balls to say "no" to developers who keep wanting to build these expansive low-density residential areas with no nearby commercial or industrial development (i.e. most of Byron). And London is by no means the only municipality in North America with this problem.

Problem is, too many suburban Canadians don't know what is good for them. A major flaw of the otherwise positive system of democracy.

[Snark]

Bingo. We have a winner! This isn't a London issue. It's a North America issue. The prize of land ownership with a private single family dwelling is cultural and ingrained... and it's going to take a lot more than the sort of persuasion used mostly unsuccessfully to date to change that.

Actually, there is more to it than that.....

Legally, there is little to stop a landowner who owns land within a designated development zone from subdividing. A municipality may try to shape and time how that development turns out, but stopping it all together is pretty hard. Something about landowner's rights....

Which means that the case for conversion from greenfield development to brownfield/redevelopment must be shown to be economically advantageous to the developer. This will only happen if the home-buying consumer changes their mindset and decides on say a place in a high rise or townhouse in the inner city as opposed to the white picket fence in the 'burbs. In London, this has begun in earnest, starting with mostly empty nesters and single professionals migrating back to the inner city. That said, the family folks in that 30 to 50 age bracket still want the privacy, quiet, space, and dare I say perceived security of the 'burbs to raise their kids. The question is how to convince them that moving to the inner city is a better alternative.

Lastly, there is the economic model. What young family wants to rent if avoidable? If not rent, why would anyone want to try to raise a family in a 1,200 sq.ft. condo that costs $350,000 + fees + parking? For the same price, you get your own castle, a back yard, and no condo fees.

Until that changes, the 'burbs will keep growing.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Not going to happen as long as focus groups keep telling developers they like these suburban disasters ("I like my quiet cul-de-sac", "I like driving 15 minutes to get groceries", "I like having a big backyard and I don't have to see my neighbours"), and the City continues to lack the balls to say "no" to developers who keep wanting to build these expansive low-density residential areas with no nearby commercial or industrial development (i.e. most of Byron). And London is by no means the only municipality in North America with this problem.

Problem is, too many suburban Canadians don't know what is good for them. A major flaw of the otherwise positive system of democracy.

[go_leafs_go02]

How is the Wonderland upgrade going between Gainsborough and Fanshawe Park?

I haven't been in London since April, so I woul love to see some pictures or just information on it

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

How is the Wonderland upgrade going between Gainsborough and Fanshawe Park?

I haven't been in London since April, so I woul love to see some pictures or just information on it

They've built a temporary crossing of the creek while work on the new 4 lane bridge commences.

Some pics from the COL:









More info: http://www.london.ca/d.aspx?s=/Road_..._Info_Page.htm

Wonderland Road in it's entirety is a massive construction mess right now. There are 5 separate projects going along the road's length in London.
-Decker Drive to Highway 402: Road work / resurfacing
-Wonderland / Viscount intersection: Resurfacing
-Guy Lombardo Bridge: Rehabilitation
-Riverside to Oxford: Watermain replacement
-Gainsborough to Fanshawe Park: Widening / reconstruction

Insane eh? Guess you can blame stimulus funding for all the upgrades taking place at once.

[go_leafs_go02]

Looks like a gong-show, but that's normal for construction.

And yeah that rush to receive funding for the stimulus package is nuts. Same is going on in BC too.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Snark

Bingo. We have a winner! This isn't a London issue. It's a North America issue. The prize of land ownership with a private single family dwelling is cultural and ingrained... and it's going to take a lot more than the sort of persuasion used mostly unsuccessfully to date to change that.

(...)

Which means that the case for conversion from greenfield development to brownfield/redevelopment must be shown to be economically advantageous to the developer. This will only happen if the home-buying consumer changes their mindset and decides on say a place in a high rise or townhouse in the inner city as opposed to the white picket fence in the 'burbs. In London, this has begun in earnest, starting with mostly empty nesters and single professionals migrating back to the inner city. That said, the family folks in that 30 to 50 age bracket still want the privacy, quiet, space, and dare I say perceived security of the 'burbs to raise their kids. The question is how to convince them that moving to the inner city is a better alternative.

Excellent points raised. Suburb growth is undoubtedly going to continue, but I question the amount of land wastage with putting houses on huge properties. In London in particular, property taxes are now sky-high compared with other Canadian municipalities (apologies that I don't have exact numbers in front of me). For my parents for example who still live in a suburban area, the property taxes are increasingly becoming hard to afford. I'm hearing that from others in suburban London.

The point is, there is a financial argument in favour of smaller lots and more compact housing. Smaller properties mean less property taxes.

[go_leafs_go02]

Here's a map I posted in another thread suggesting a possible re-alignment of Hyde Park Road to divert around the village centre.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...f6cc5a83b2eff7

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Here's a map I posted in another thread suggesting a possible re-alignment of Hyde Park Road to divert around the village centre.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...f6cc5a83b2eff7

Oddly enough there was a similar plan on the books back in the 1970s, except Hyde Park Road would have swong to the east of the village.

I'm not sure a bypass there is warranted. I'd rather see the road widened through the village centre so people can still go through the area. I personally like going through Hyde Park, allthough I don't like the traffic.

[haljackey]

I'm sad to see only one road widening is taking place this year, despite it being London's biggest road construction year to date.

Some major widenings/projects I would like to see London overtake over the next few years are listed below. Resurfacing projects, sewer, bike lane and sidewalk work and whatnot are not listed.

North/South

Colonel Talbot
-Widening: Highway 402 to Highway 401
-Widening: Southdale to Main Street/Longwoods

Hyde Park
-Widening: Fanshawe Park to Riverside. Can include bypass of Grainsbrough town centre.

Wonderland
-Highway 401 interchange
-Widening: Exeter to Highway 402
-Widening: Sunningdle to Fanshawe Park

Warncliffe / Western
-CN rail underpass north of Horton expanded from 3 to 5 lanes
-CP rail underpass north of Oxford expanded from 2 to 4 or 5 lanes
-Widening: Patt's Lane to Oxford
-Bus lane / BRT additional lane from Elgin to Sarnia

Richmond
-Widening: Fanshawe Park to Western (6 lanes)

Wellington
-6 continuous lanes from Base Line to Highway 401

Adelaide
-Widening: Sunningdle to Fanshawe Park

Highbury
-Replace Highway 401 interchange with a free-flowing design
-Add 2 ramps to the Commissioners interchange, increasing the interchange's capacity
-Widening: Sunningdle to Fanshawe Park

Clarke
-Widening: whole route 4 lanes from Fanshawe Park to Hamilton

VMP
-Replace Highway 401 interchange to allow for southward expansion, but keep it free-flowing
-Interchanges with Bradley and Hamilton
-Widening: Huron to Oxford, rail crossing grade separation.
-Extension: Clarke to Huron

East/West

Bradley
-Extension: Colonel Talbot to White Oak
-Widening: White Oak to Jalna
-Widening: Wellington to Adelaide or as far as Highbury or VMP

Southdale
-Widening: Wonderland to Warncliffe (or as far as Colonel Talbot)
-Widening: Wellington to Adelaide

Commissioners
-Widening: Wonderland to Viscount (or as far as Boler)
-Widening: Wellington to Adelaide (6 lanes to handle Adelaide discontinuation through the Westminister Ponds)

Hamilton
-Widening: Commissioners to VMP (or as far as Highbury)

King
-Extension: New bridge link from Warnclife/Riverside/Dundas junction, similar to the Queens link up.

Oxford
-Widening: Commissioners to Hyde Park
-Widening: VMP to London Airport

Sarnia
-Widening: Hyde Park to Sleightome, including CP overpass replacement
-Extension: New Bridge link from Phillip Aziz to Huron

Huron
-Link: Maitland to William
-Widening: Highbury to VMP

Windermere
-Link: Adelaide to Kilally

Fanshawe Park
-Widening: 6 lanes in Masonville Commercial Area (so around Richmond)
-Widening: Adelaide to Highbury

Sunningdale
-Widening: Wonderland to Highbury


If I missed something let me know! This is just for roads only, not transit.

[go_leafs_go02]

Thats a huge list - likely will take 10-20 years to complete the majority of that.

[quentin0]

i hope the city wins at least 50 powerball lotteries in order to finance all of that!

there are some projects on that list with an immediate need, but for most of it, there is no current traffic volume to justify it unfortunately.

[manny_santos]

I would say the majority of the projects listed are important, but some naturally are more important than others. I don't think Colonel Talbot Road needs widening.

The highest priorities, from that list, are Hyde Park (although I question the need for a bypass of the village), Wharncliffe/Western, Commissioners, and Southdale.

[MolsonExport]

I'd forgo much of the list to see one light-rail from White Oaks through downtown and UWO to Masonville. A second line along Oxford from Fanshawe College in the East (intersecting downtown, perhaps at some underground station deep below Richmond & Dundas) to the world-famous London Mall in the West. Then, the cherry on top: HSR from Windsor to Quebec City.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I'd forgo much of the list to see one light-rail from White Oaks through downtown and UWO to Masonville. A second line along Oxford from Fanshawe College in the East (intersecting downtown, perhaps at some underground station deep below Richmond & Dundas) to the world-famous London Mall in the West. Then, the cherry on top: HSR from Windsor to Quebec City.

Well unfortunately the city has no intention to plan light rail for at least 20 years... at least according to the Smartmoves site / 2030 transportation master plan.

I'd give anything to see that too, especially a High Speed Rail line in our province. Imagine zipping to downtown Toronto in about an hour.
-As I've said before, if we don't start construction by the end of the decade, our economy is screwed.

[Kokkei Mizu]

I think the free-flowing interchange for Highbury Ave. is an awesome idea but at the same time it may be a bad thing. The stop lights are probably good for southbound traffic. Because they have to slow down from 100 km/h to 80 km/h, and having a free-flowing interchange will allow them to continue safely at 100 km/h. Which is good, but once they get over the hill they'll encounter trucks doing wide left turns into and out of the Flying J. Seems like an accident waiting to happen.

[haljackey]

Here's a pic I took of Lambeth from the Highway 4 / 402 interchange.



And here's two from the city showing the Wonderland widening developments:

[MolsonExport]

^good shots. I take Wonderland North all the time (live in Hyde Park)

[haljackey]

Took a DSLR for a spin yesterday. It was a rainy day but I did manage to get 6 good pictures of the 401 in London. Remember that Highbury Avenue and the Veterans Memorial Parkway are expressways. Thus, I can't get shots from those overpasses because there is no pedestrian access.

Highway 401 looking west towards the Highway 402 interchange from Wellington Road.


A rare photograph showing the Highway 401 / Highway 402 interchange. Taken from the Digman Drive overpass, which was under repairs at the time this photo was taken (hence the construction pylons and signs). The overpass doesn't have a sidewalk, so the only time I could take photos without the fear of being hit by cars was during this brief timeframe.


This photograph shows Highway 401 just west of the Highway 402 interchange, where the highway narrows from six to four lanes. T
-Also note the reverse colours of the asphalt. The newer asphalt switches from the inside to the outside while the older asphalt switches from the outside to the inside.


Zoomed in version of the last picture.


Highway 401 in west London. This section of the highway is planned to be widened to six lanes sometime in the future and will include a new interchange with Wonderland Road.


One more shot of Highway 401 west of the 402.


Full size versions of these pictures can be found on the Highway 401 page in the Wikimedia commons. Link:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca..._%28Ontario%29

[haljackey]

More shots from me:

Highway 402 seen from the Highway 4 overpass, looking east:


And west:


The Highbury Avenue expressway seen from the Commissioners Road overpass, looking north.


With these photos, I'm pretty much done visually documenting the highway system in London. Hope you enjoyed them!