By 2060, the American South Could Be Three Times as Urbanized

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

One of those cities is at sea level and could be underwater before any of that stuff happens.

Makes me wonder about Miami and the cities on the barrier islands of Florida. Those cities are in big trouble once sea levels rise.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

One of those cities is at sea level and could be underwater before any of that stuff happens.

Houston is 43 feet above sea level. Downtown is almost 50 feet above sea level. Houston is subject to lots of flooding due to the flat terrain and sluggish runoff during large rain events. Rising sea levels would not have a huge impact on most of Houston although some coastal areas (and certainly Galveston) could be impacted. Dallas is over 400 feet above sea level.

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Makes me wonder about Miami and the cities on the barrier islands of Florida. Those cities are in big trouble once sea levels rise.

Hmm? makes me wonder about Manhattan too! Look at what Sandy did to that island and that was just a Category 1 Hurricane too!
How about 'Napa" with a 6.0 Earthquake? If this happened 50 miles to the southwest the Bay area wouldn't have fared so well either.

You want to see areas being reclaimed by the Sea? Try Bangladesh.

[chris08876]

^^^

True. East Asia will have immense problems due to sea level rise. China especially, as the coastal cities have a good portion of the population. But in the case of Bangladesh, with such a high population density, its a disaster waiting to happen.

I think Manhattan will be fine. We will build walls! But if a major earthquake hits or a category 3/4, we are in trouble.

[HowardL]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

They all say they don't want to be another Atlanta, while following Atlanta's sprawling example to a tee

This was my experience with NC. I helped an ex move his mother from MI to Brevard, just south of Asheville. I had only ever been to the Outer Banks of NC, which is its own hellish pinched sprawl, but I had only heard wonderful things about Aville. I was excited to see an urban slice of the South.

I came to NC expecting to find unique, distinguishable towns dotting the wooded valleys separated by rolling wild scenery.

Instead I only saw a low density smear of strip malls and churches and gas stations and Red Lion parking lots running south from the 40 all the way to Brevard. It was shocking.

And even the locals we met were unaware of what was going on. They knew all of the best waterfall hikes up in the forests. They knew all of the best moonshine makers. They knew all of the wonderful unique things about the mountains but they were blind to the sub-urban stain creeping down every valley and turning their corners of the mountains into unrecognizable anywhere America.

Asheville was wonderful. Twenty meters outside of the city was ... well ...

[Perklol]

Edit: wrong thread sorry.

[Matthew]

In 1987, Winston-Salem's city council was debating if they should allow a big box store to build near their largest mall. They actually talked about sprawl and what would happen, if this was allowed. It passed by 1 vote and what they feared proved to be true.

Big boxes and chains build corporate designed buildings, designed for their store, with cheap materials. When these buildings become outdated, they move to another street and repeat this process with each upgrade. These abandoned or declining streets are seen throughout the south.

As Winston-Salem watched this starting to happen at Peters Creek Parkway, they decided to actually do something about it! They created a planning document that includes the inner suburbs, with the help of citizens, that guides where growth will occur, how it will look, and preserves natural areas and farmland. It is enforced, even if it costs the city, suburbs, or county some growth and jobs! I've seen buildings denied, because an area is residential or farmland or it didn't conform! This document is updated every 10 years, to keep it current. It was last updated two or three years ago and that update won a 2014 American Planning Association (APA) Award! It was the 2014 Daniel Burnham Comprehensive Plan Award, for those who want to know. "This award recognizes a comprehensive plan that advances the science and art of planning."

Their advertising campaign, to encourage people to get involved, also won an award. For those who want to know, it was the American Planning Association 2013 National Planning Achievement Award for Public Outreach.

So what happens when you do something like this? It's very difficult to encourage small towns and rural areas to go along with it. It helps if they try to save money by using the city's planning department though. It's interesting to see retail developers buying existing retail buildings and renovating them or demolishing them and reusing the site. You can only build retail structures in areas designated for them, which encourages reusing the sites over and over, instead of abandonment. A number of farmers have taken advantage of selling development rights to their farm, while continuing to farm the land, as part of a county farmland preservation program. Winston-Salem and its inner suburbs have planned how much growth they will have over the next two decades and everyone worked together to plan exactly where it should go and also included plans for a streetcar and a future light rail system. Many proposals will include an LRT station. I've seen one mixed-use proposal with space set-aside for a bus/LRT transfer station included for the future!

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by HowardL

This was my experience with NC. I helped an ex move his mother from MI to Brevard, just south of Asheville. I had only ever been to the Outer Banks of NC, which is its own hellish pinched sprawl, but I had only heard wonderful things about Aville. I was excited to see an urban slice of the South.

I came to NC expecting to find unique, distinguishable towns dotting the wooded valleys separated by rolling wild scenery.

Instead I only saw a low density smear of strip malls and churches and gas stations and Red Lion parking lots running south from the 40 all the way to Brevard. It was shocking.

And even the locals we met were unaware of what was going on. They knew all of the best waterfall hikes up in the forests. They knew all of the best moonshine makers. They knew all of the wonderful unique things about the mountains but they were blind to the sub-urban stain creeping down every valley and turning their corners of the mountains into unrecognizable anywhere America.

Asheville was wonderful. Twenty meters outside of the city was ... well ...

Brevard is a textbook example of how a burgeoning population of retirees has pretty much ruined Western North Carolina. Long story short, the same people who led white flight out of Northeastern cities and pioneered the kind of sprawl that made New Jersey and Long Island the butt of national jokes long before Atlanta got in on the action... They're the same people who got old, moved to Florida and helped ruin it, then got sick of the heat and moved here to keep the trend going. I have very little experience with Brevard, but I can definitely tell you that Hendersonville and Henderson County, south of Asheville and where I was born, got sucked down into the tenth level of suburban hell courtesy of cranky old Herman and Ethel Bitters, originally of Forest Hills, Queens, then Hicksville, Long Island, and lately of Fort Myers, Florida before they got a hankering for the first place they could find that has actual seasons again.

Edit: Also, you may be thinking of Food Lion rather than Red Lion. The former is a North Carolina supermarket chain, while the latter is, I believe, a hotel chain. Never fear, though... Asheville-based Ingles Supermarkets has surely driven off the Food Lion stores by now. Ingles has a stranglehold on Western North Carolina and does not take kindly to the thought that people might want to shop elsewhere.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

Hmm? makes me wonder about Manhattan too! Look at what Sandy did to that island and that was just a Category 1 Hurricane too!
How about 'Napa" with a 6.0 Earthquake? If this happened 50 miles to the southwest the Bay area wouldn't have fared so well either.

You want to see areas being reclaimed by the Sea? Try Bangladesh.

Maldives is also going to pretty much wiped off the map due to sea level rise. Its one of the most beautiful places on earth, but is incredibly low and flat. Wifey and I are going to make a trip there next year while we still can.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

One of those cities is at sea level and could be underwater before any of that stuff happens.

Originally Posted by chris08876

Makes me wonder about Miami and the cities on the barrier islands of Florida. Those cities are in big trouble once sea levels rise.

You guys also know that NYC, LA, SF, Boston,DC, and some other major cities are also near sea level?

Miami and Houston are very important cities that aren't just going to be abandoned because the seas are rising. If the states won't do anything you bet other federal agencies will lest they want to deal with the economic catastrophes that will be more than ten fold as worse as simply combating sea level rising.

[Awcee]

I just disagree with the "Piedmont-Atlantic" definition that some propose that includes Atlanta, Charlotte, Birmingham, Nashville, and Memphis. I agree that Birmingham and Charlotte and Atlanta (the largest and most prominent metro area in the region) are tied, but Nashville and especially Memphis are hardly connected at all, being separated from the rest of the area by large expanses of hardly populated areas. I believe Chattanooga is especially tied to Atlanta, and it is one of if not the closest metro area to the sprawling city. Knoxville is also rather tied to Atlanta via the populated Tennessee Valley and I-75 corridor. To get from Nashville to Atlanta, you even have to pass through Chattanooga, reached after an area of sparse population.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by Awcee

I just disagree with the "Piedmont-Atlantic" definition that some propose that includes Atlanta, Charlotte, Birmingham, Nashville, and Memphis. I agree that Birmingham and Charlotte and Atlanta (the largest and most prominent metro area in the region) are tied, but Nashville and especially Memphis are hardly connected at all, being separated from the rest of the area by large expanses of hardly populated areas. I believe Chattanooga is especially tied to Atlanta, and it is one of if not the closest metro area to the sprawling city. Knoxville is also rather tied to Atlanta via the populated Tennessee Valley and I-75 corridor. To get from Nashville to Atlanta, you even have to pass through Chattanooga, reached after an area of sparse population.

I would definitely think RDU has more in common with ATL than Memphis for sure.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Eightball

Excellent points and I agree... but atl and Charlotte (edit: and the Texas cities, though I think their growth will slow) still have a Long history to grow imo, though hopefully differently at least somewhat.

Let's not forget (with ac) the temperature is quite appealing. But I agree there will drastic changes in growth rates etc. And many states will soon go purple ... ga maybe this year, TX in 4 to 6 years. At that point we will see a drastic restructuring of political parties.

Everything about this old post, 2014 was wrong.

[Dariusb]

Originally Posted by LouisianaCharm

I still think Dallas needs to come up with a way to bury that train through downtown and uptown. Its usability will definitely increase and help relieve congestion because not only are trying to avoid traffic, you also have to wait out the train. It would be extremely efficient.

I recently read that the lines downtown will be going underground(at least partially) and that the Cottonbelt commuter line have both received funding and should start construction in 2018.