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  #1221  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 2:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FourOneFive View Post
Here's some advice to you and Sue. First, focus on the rode while driving. You shouldn't be looking for hills, fog, birds, the sunset, etc; you should be focusing on the road and the cars ahead of you. Second, if you do feel the urge to look for the hills, wait a few minutes. As it stands now (even before the planned Transbay and the other Rincon towers), you can't see the hills anyway from the Bay Bridge. Once you clear downtown, you should be able to see Twin Peaks and (most of) the other hills just fine.
I agree. How many years back can we find hills that are not currently visible from the Bay Bridge visible...40-45 years or more? Furthermore, the only hills that any of the proposed Transbay and Rincon towers will block from the Bay Bridge are the almost hills of existing skyscrapers behind them.
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  #1222  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 5:30 AM
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Here are a couple photos taken by my 4 year old daughter on Thu., Feb. 7, 2008. She wanted to take these from her window seat that she also wanted. I didn't tell her what to take, but somehow she knew what was most important:


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  #1223  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 5:45 AM
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Originally Posted by FourOneFive View Post
Here's some advice to you and Sue. First, focus on the rode while driving. You shouldn't be looking for hills, fog, birds, the sunset, etc; you should be focusing on the road and the cars ahead of you.
Perhaps, but considering folks on this thread are marveling at photos of buildings taken from a moving car on the bridge, I'm not feeling too bad about it!

At any rate, my point is that this city's natural beauty should not be overlooked. Unlike Manhattan, we actually have something other than buildings to look at!
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  #1224  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 6:13 AM
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Perhaps, but considering folks on this thread are marveling at photos of buildings taken from a moving car on the bridge, I'm not feeling too bad about it!

At any rate, my point is that this city's natural beauty should not be overlooked. Unlike Manhattan, we actually have something other than buildings to look at!
True, but I don't believe anyone is overlooking San Francisco's natural beauty. Unfortunately, NIMBYs like Sue Hestor try to twist the issue, and make it seem as if building high-rises will destroy the natural beauty of the city. Skyscrapers won't destroy the bay, keep the fog away, or bury the hills. In fact, taller towers on Rincon, Cathedral, Nob, Telegraph, and Russian Hills actually accentuate the natural topography of the city. The only thing that may truly be altered will be views. And these views are typically those of a select few who will complain. If someone's life is dramatically affected because they can't see the Bay Bridge from their bedroom window, then they should really open their eyes because there are much bigger things to worry about.

IMO San Francisco can have big, beautiful skyscrapers and keep its natural beauty.
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  #1225  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 6:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SFView View Post
Here are a couple photos taken by my 4 year old daughter on Thu., Feb. 7, 2008. She wanted to take these from her window seat that she also wanted. I didn't tell her what to take, but somehow she knew what was most important.
Only 4 years old? Wow, I must say, she has a talent at an early age.

Very impressive, thanks for sharing!
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  #1226  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 7:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FourOneFive View Post
True, but I don't believe anyone is overlooking San Francisco's natural beauty. Unfortunately, NIMBYs like Sue Hestor try to twist the issue, and make it seem as if building high-rises will destroy the natural beauty of the city. Skyscrapers won't destroy the bay, keep the fog away, or bury the hills. In fact, taller towers on Rincon, Cathedral, Nob, Telegraph, and Russian Hills actually accentuate the natural topography of the city. The only thing that may truly be altered will be views. And these views are typically those of a select few who will complain. If someone's life is dramatically affected because they can't see the Bay Bridge from their bedroom window, then they should really open their eyes because there are much bigger things to worry about.
I think that there has been a considerable amount of self justification on the last two pages. As a fan of highrises, skyscrapers and architecture in general, I think that destroying views does matter. The idea that it's a "select few" is a gross untruth. The observation deck on Twin Peaks is loosing its view of the Bay Bridge, as are Dolores Park and many other areas. THIS MATTERS! People from around the world come here to marvel at the beautiful setting of our City; a large number of them can see skyscrapers elsewhere, and many of them that can are most likely looking at far better architecture than what we have to offer with the large number of mediocre major structures that we display to the world.

I'm not against the downtown core being built up, including the true skyscrapers that are yet to come. I am against misplacement of skyscrapers that disfigure views in multiple directions and, as many here have proudly proclaimed, give the finger to the City. That having been stated, I don't even dislike One Rincon Hill for what it is, just where it is. You can get your thrills looking down City streets at it (as I have), but we need to be more careful when viewing the big picture of our unique metropolis in its entirety.
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  #1227  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 7:30 AM
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Originally Posted by FourOneFive View Post
Here's some advice to you and Sue. First, focus on the rode while driving. You shouldn't be looking for hills, fog, birds, the sunset, etc; you should be focusing on the road and the cars ahead of you.
Isn't this a little hypocritical when we're doing the same thing trying to look at our new skyscrapers rising? I have often had trouble catching a good view of our new developments when driving alone (I know...not sustainable), especially with the continual road reconfigurations and the amount of traffic present.
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  #1228  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 5:02 PM
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Those are fantastic, SFView. I would be impressed if an adult took them and she's only four years old! She even managed to keep ORH in the frame of the first one.
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Last edited by peanut gallery; Feb 12, 2008 at 7:37 PM.
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  #1229  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Reminiscence View Post
Only 4 years old? Wow, I must say, she has a talent at an early age.

Very impressive, thanks for sharing!
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Originally Posted by peanut gallery View Post
Those are fantastic, SFView. I would be imressed if an adult took them and she's only four years old! She even managed to keep ORH in the frame of the first one.
When she started shooting those pictures, I had no real idea just what she was aiming at, since I had the aisle seat and another family member between us. I was surprised that she got almost exactly what I would have taken, if I were in her seat. I showed her my post with her photos that everyone could see, and she said, "I took those pictures for all the people to see." Thanks from the both of us!

By the way, where did we go? See some of my posts and my own photos here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=1#post3349482
...and the page before it.

Last edited by SFView; Feb 12, 2008 at 6:13 PM.
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  #1230  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 9:11 PM
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By the way, those of you "in residence" in the city, now that several of the projects we have been following have topped out and some others are just about complete (Intercontinental, SOMA Grand, ORH tower 1) don't forget there are a couple more due to get underway:

- ORH Tower 2

- 45 Lansing

- City building at Golden Gate & Polk (demolition supposed to start in March)

- 350 Bush (to start "as soon as possible")

- One Hawthorne (demolition either underway or about to be with construction to follow immediately)

I hope any progress on these gets noticed and photographed.
I checked out 350 Bush today. No sign whatsoever of work starting. Of course, they could be working on the inside of the old Exchange building. But if so, you couldn't tell from outside.

Same with 45 Lansing and the second ORH.
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  #1231  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 1:33 AM
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Originally Posted by viewguysf View Post
I think that there has been a considerable amount of self justification on the last two pages. As a fan of highrises, skyscrapers and architecture in general, I think that destroying views does matter. The idea that it's a "select few" is a gross untruth. The observation deck on Twin Peaks is loosing its view of the Bay Bridge, as are Dolores Park and many other areas. THIS MATTERS! People from around the world come here to marvel at the beautiful setting of our City; a large number of them can see skyscrapers elsewhere, and many of them that can are most likely looking at far better architecture than what we have to offer with the large number of mediocre major structures that we display to the world.
Your argument is flawed. When you are talking about "views", you are only mentioning the Bay Bridge. Views are still preserved, just not of ONE bridge. Why is the view of the Bay Bridge so central to everyone's argument as to why SF shouldn't be building skyscrapers on Rincon Hill? People act as if that's the ONLY thing people look for when they're on Twin Peaks. Last I checked, you still get beautiful, sweeping views of the Bay Area from Twin Peaks and Dolores Park. I can still see landmarks like Golden Gate Bridge, City Hall, Coit Tower, and the natural topography of the city from Twin Peaks.

As for the mediocre major structures in the city, blame the NIMBYs of the 1980s who essentially codified mediocrity into the General Plan and planning codes with junk like Prop M in 1986.
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  #1232  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 4:49 AM
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Originally Posted by viewguysf View Post
I think that there has been a considerable amount of self justification on the last two pages. As a fan of highrises, skyscrapers and architecture in general, I think that destroying views does matter. The idea that it's a "select few" is a gross untruth. The observation deck on Twin Peaks is loosing its view of the Bay Bridge, as are Dolores Park and many other areas. THIS MATTERS! People from around the world come here to marvel at the beautiful setting of our City; a large number of them can see skyscrapers elsewhere, and many of them that can are most likely looking at far better architecture than what we have to offer with the large number of mediocre major structures that we display to the world.
Views are nice, but is that what's important in having a socially diverse, economically robust and environmentally focus city?
We need more housing by increasing density in neighborhoods and build tall buildings to support the high housing demand. Limiting housing will only drive the housing prices even higher. It is already unaffordable for middle income people. We need to support job growth in downtown by building more office space for companies to expand or relocate to SF. We can't depend on tourisim as our main business, we need a diversified economy. We have to think about the future and our environment by stopping sprawl and concentrate population and job growth in built areas.

Views from Bay Bridge and Twin Peaks will still be spectacular even with tall new buildings. We can't build a city based on an observation deck in Twins Peak loosing some of its Bay Bridge view or a tenant in Telegraph Hill complaining about a five story office building on a pier. This city should be beyond that, we have bigger, more important issues to address.

I apologize if it sounds like a rant.
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  #1233  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 5:25 AM
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I apologize if it sounds like a rant.
No apologizes needed from anyone--we're a group of people (mostly guys) interested in the same thing but with varying opinions about it!
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  #1234  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2008, 3:48 AM
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(photo by WonderlandPark in the 301 Mish thread)

From this angle, the new Infinity tower does wonders to welcome One Rincon to the skyline. I can't wait for the new One Rincon to help close the gap. With any luck, 45 Lansing and 375 Cali will be joining them shortly.
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  #1235  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2008, 4:59 AM
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It will be a nice little cluster over there.
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  #1236  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2008, 5:19 AM
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I walked by One Kearny today (see page 56 of this thread for renderings and 2-month-old photos). They have made a lot of progress in the hole. The foundation is taking shape and the bottom of a tower crane has been installed. It figures something would be happening when I don't have a camera with me. I'll try to head over there again mid-next-week.
Today, I brought my camera.

They have a pad of concrete down and is this the base of the core for the addition they have assembled here?




The bottom of this frame is almost directly below me. They have removed all but a small pile of the dirt that used to create a ramp from the fence I'm looking through here to the bottom. It's a bit strange that there's nothing between the very busy sidewalk and a 20-foot fall straight down except a temporary, movable fence.

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  #1237  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2008, 8:12 AM
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(photo by WonderlandPark in the 301 Mish thread)
Thats an awesome photo. The perfect vantage point for viewing the growing skyline. Is it available in a higher resolution?
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  #1238  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2008, 5:10 PM
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We now have a rendering of the Giant's proposal for the giant parking lot at China Basin/Mission Bay, across from the stadium:



Quote:
Giants among bidders to develop S.F. Port land

Robert Selna, Chronicle Staff Writer

Thursday, February 14, 2008


A high-stakes competition for one of the last large tracts of San Francisco waterfront is heating up as developers submit proposals Thursday - and a group led by the Giants baseball team is already promoting itself as the only real choice.

At least three teams of bidders are expected to submit plans to the Port of San Francisco to remake the 16-acre stretch of land immediately south of the Giants ballpark into a popular destination with shops, parks, entertainment, arts, housing and office buildings.

The parcel currently is covered by a parking lot used by baseball fans on game days. But as a thriving neighborhood has emerged nearby, the Giants have seen the land as a way to stay atop the sports entertainment market that port officials hope will be a major revenue generator for the cash-strapped agency.

While at least two other development teams have quietly put together preliminary design and finance plans, the Giants created a colorful, glossy marketing kit and requested a meeting with The Chronicle's editorial board on Tuesday.

Team representatives told The Chronicle that their experience building the ballpark that opened in 2000 - also on port land at China Basin - made the Giants and their partners the most qualified to handle the complicated project.

"We're uniquely bought into this," said Larry Baer, chief operating officer for the Giants, noting that the team already had sunk $357 million and their reputations into creating AT&T Park across McCovey Cove from the proposed development site. "No one else has been able to pull off a project of this scale on the waterfront. ... We can develop this for the port better than others can."

The team and port officials also have made it clear that developers of the port property - called Seawall Lot 337 - will need parking to accommodate the new development as well as the baseball park's visitors.

The team has completed its own study of fan parking habits, and the port has said that survey will factor into how much parking is required in the new project.

The Giants' preliminary development proposal includes 875 homes, many of which will be in a 300-foot high-rise, 800,000 square feet of office space and a parking garage. The plan also features a 5,000-seat music hall, an entertainment district with restaurants, bowling and nightclubs, a 5-acre park and a refurbished pier available for staging trade shows and private events. Total development costs are estimated at more than $1 billion.

The Giants said their development team - including Cordish Co. of Baltimore and San Francisco-based Farallon Capital Management - would cover the costs of the project that they estimate at more than $1 billion. Farallon is an owner in the adjacent Mission Bay development, which includes a new UCSF campus.

While the Giants promote themselves as the best choice, an unknown number of proposals will be reviewed. The bids are to be vetted first by an eight-member advisory group and then the mayoral-appointed Port Commission. Construction would probably not begin for three or four years.

Port project manager Diane Oshima said Wednesday that she knew of at least two development teams, in addition to the Giants-led group, that had decided to submit proposals.

The first team is headed by Treasure Island developer and Democratic Party fundraiser Darius Anderson. It includes Boston Properties, which developed the Embarcadero Center, and Wilson, Meany, Sullivan, which led the Ferry Building rebuild.

Anderson said his proposal would take the Ferry Building's model of a food destination, with farmers' markets and restaurants, but use art as the draw instead for Seawall Lot 337.

Anderson, whose Kenwood Investments owns the aquarium at Pier 39, said his project would include 1,700 housing units and office space, but would also offer submarket rents for gallery space and would feature a monthly art walk for artists to show and sell their creations.

"In the United States, art has become a tourist attraction and San Francisco is one of the most artistic cities in the world, but the real estate market is pricing artists out," Anderson said.

The other known proposal is from Build Inc. and Urban Green Development. It features a green technology business incubator, offices and 1,600 homes, according to Build Inc.'s Lou Vasquez. It also includes artist studios, an art exhibition center, a wholesale market and parks, he said.

Vasquez said he doesn't believe the Giants have an edge.

"We're not worried about going against the Giants; we think we've got a decent shot," said Vasquez. "Whether it's us or someone else, we want to see the right thing there - it's a great site and we want to see it done right."

Port officials see the parcel as an underutilized revenue source that could help chip away at its $1.9 billion in unfunded capital costs by creating a public destination that would generate tax and rental income.

Two pieces of state legislation have paved the way for the port to develop the land. The first allows for housing and office development, which are generally prohibited on waterfront property in California. The second allows the port to capture 65 percent of property tax revenues in areas that the port designates as infrastructure financing districts. The money would otherwise go the city's general fund.

Port officials expect to be able to charge as much as $15 million a year on a planned 75-year ground lease for the parcel. And port officials already have identified several piers that would be repaired with the money.

The port controls 600 acres along the bay shoreline, but when the state handed off the land to the city in 1969, the city's piers and seawalls were decrepit. That situation has only worsened, and the estimated price tag to repair the aging network of rusted piers and other infrastructure has ballooned.

"This development could significantly help us address our capital costs and revitalize the southern waterfront of the city," said Tina Olson, the port's deputy director of finance and administration.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../BAQAV1NNV.DTL
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  #1239  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2008, 9:59 PM
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So Lew Wolff gets pegged as a greedy real estate developer and so what do the Giants do now? Develop real estate! Not such an aberration anymore.

It does look nice, though. That lot is so ugly now.
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  #1240  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Reminiscence View Post
Thats an awesome photo. The perfect vantage point for viewing the growing skyline. Is it available in a higher resolution?
I have it as a full rez file, yes. As well as others from there.
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