Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by cornholio

The current city government in Vancouver "wants" to take them down and replace them with nothing. The "boulevard" or supper road or what ever catch phrase is deemed fitting is just a re-alignment of existing surface roads.

In our case they "want" to remove transportation infrastructure and replace it with nothing. The result is that mobility would be reduced, nothing else.

There is a reason Seattle will continue to be a thriving global economic hub, and Vancouver will not.

Precisely. Seattle is realistic. It may take down Alaskan Way, but it provides a road tunnel to keep vehicular access to the city. Vancouver, as someone says, replaces it with nothing.
Vancouver city government - and a goodly per centage of residents - seem to evisage Vancouver as a Fantasyland resort city, where everyone rides bikes and sings "we're off to see the Wizard..." It's freaking pathetic, and if the city downgrades into an oversized resort town with unlivable house prices (to boot), it has nothing but its fanciful methodology to blame.

[logan5]

The force is weak with this one...

The major difference being that the Alaska Way Viaduct is actually part of a freeway that runs through Seattle. The Georgia Viaduct is a rogue piece of an elevated freeway that never materialized. It is 1 measly km long, but will be a major step towards creating a more functional neighbourhood on the eastern half of the DT core. Especially the DTES. The freed up land will bring in 1000's of new residents. And it not being replaced with nothing.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by logan5

The force is weak with this one...

The major difference being that the Alaska Way Viaduct is actually part of a freeway that runs through Seattle. The Georgia Viaduct is a rogue piece of an elevated freeway that never materialized. It is 1 measly km long, but will be a major step towards creating a more functional neighbourhood on the eastern half of the DT core. Especially the DTES. The freed up land will bring in 1000's of new residents. And it not being replaced with nothing.

I see the positive aspect of your point, but The Georgia Viaducts aren't being replaced with "nothing." They're being replaced with more buildings, more people, and MORE TRAFFIC.

[officedweller]

Vancouver 'legacy' park to be built by U.S. firm behind High Line

http://www.vancourier.com/news/vanco...line-1.3491633

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Vancouver 'legacy' park to be built by U.S. firm behind High Line

http://www.vancourier.com/news/vanco...line-1.3491633

Uh-oh. Going by Corner's other work (Fresh Kills, Cleveland Public Square, Cornell Tech), he seems to specialize in big empty lawns - the LAST thing we need more of.

[Metro-One]

I didn't know you needed to hire someone to design a big empty lawn?

If it is going to be a park, wish it had water features, large gardens, manicures trees with trails, etc... You know, more like a great urban park instead of an over sized soccer field.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I didn't know you needed to hire someone to design a big empty lawn?

If it is going to be a park, wish it had water features, large gardens, manicures trees with trails, etc... You know, more like a great urban park instead of an over sized soccer field.

Preliminary work seems to be more complex than that. This is from Corner's local partner, PWL:

http://www.pwlpartnership.com/our-po...creekside-park

From the get-go, I suspect that special precautions would limit what you can do with the park due to land contamination issues. The overhead pedestrian and bike overpass would also need some work.

[excel]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Uh-oh. Going by Corner's other work (Fresh Kills, Cleveland Public Square, Cornell Tech), he seems to specialize in big empty lawns - the LAST thing we need more of.

He also designed High Line in Manhattan which was innovative and creative, so you never know.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by excel

He also designed High Line in Manhattan which was innovative and creative, so you never know.

Seems to discount the work that Diller Scofidio + Renfro did on the project to say that he created the High Line.

https://www.dezeen.com/2014/11/03/el...line-new-york/

[Vin]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I see the positive aspect of your point, but The Georgia Viaducts aren't being replaced with "nothing." They're being replaced with more buildings, more people, and MORE TRAFFIC.

Or more people trapped in choked traffic.

[officedweller]

Prime opportunity for the Malkin Connector to proceed.

If the City allows redevelopment of this parcel (by Rennie et al) - it'll be a missed opportunity.

LeKiu packs up warehouse and dusts off Chinatown treasures
Joanne Lee-Young
Published on: December 29, 2016 | Last Updated: December 29, 2016 2:01 PM PST
...
The building being vacated by LeKiu is now owned by a company whose directors include Kris Rennie, son of condo king Bob Rennie,
and Michael Mackay of Strand Properties. It abuts the land on which the new St. Paul’s Hospital will be built and is near the Georgia Viaduct,
which will be dismantled.

Mackay said they will lease the building and wait to see what the city’s False Creek Flats plan entails before making further plans.
...

http://vancouversun.com/business/loc...town-treasures

Here's the warehouse location highlighted in red outline:


https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Geo...4d-123.1040986

Reminder of Malkin Connector alignment:


https://cityhallwatch.wordpress.com/...n-produce-row/

City of Vancouver brochure on all of the alignment options here:

https://t.co/4MFVol2MU1

[WarrenC12]

Providence owns a weirdly shaped chunk of land. Surely they could come to an arrangement with the city to allow for the Malkin connector, in exchange for some specific hospital road connections?

[Migrant_Coconut]

National Avenue sounds like a better deal. The fire training centre can move their burn tower, but Produce Way can't move at all.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

National Avenue sounds like a better deal. The fire training centre can move their burn tower, but Produce Way can't move at all.

The National Avenue option, from what I can discern, includes a big zig zag, does it not? I would have thought that a direct route would be preferable,
though there are other elements involved, I know, especially property rights and structure / facility location & relocation.

[MIPS]

At this point it is too late to do anything but I couldn't help but notice that the viaducts have lighting underneath them and a large amount of fluorescent fixtures hanging from the spans over Main Street, plus floodlights.






When was the last time any of this saw use and why was it taken out of service?

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by MIPS

At this point it is too late to do anything but I couldn't help but notice that the viaducts have lighting underneath them and a large amount of fluorescent fixtures hanging from the spans over Main Street, plus floodlights.






When was the last time any of this saw use and why was it taken out of service?

I heard there were once racing tracks beneath the viaducts...

[Alex Mackinnon]

And yet almost all the lights on the Viaduct itself are out, and about half the street lights...

The CoV has clearly deferred almost all the routine maintenance on the viaducts. If they elect to keep them, I'd imagine the maintenance after will probably be more costly because of this. Chipped concrete and exposed rebar has been visible and unpatched for several years at this point.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

And yet almost all the lights on the Viaduct itself are out, and about half the street lights...

The CoV has clearly deferred almost all the routine maintenance on the viaducts. If they elect to keep them, I'd imagine the maintenance after will probably be more costly because of this. Chipped concrete and exposed rebar has been visible and unpatched for several years at this point.

Are you sure about the street lights? on the roadway? I've never noticed them but it would be a safety hazard that should be remedied by a call to 311.

The actual costs for the barrier repairs, deferred maintenance etc are big and small, IMO. Deck and joint/seismic rehab would be a big hit, but less so if annualized over the remaining life of the viaduct. If they commit to large-scale rehab, they commit to keeping the viaduct.

The September 2011 report by Halcrow Consulting was published on the city website and it offered conclusions similar to Associated Engineering — that the majority of the structure is in reasonably good condition. “The section that crosses Main Street requires some minor retrofits in the short term and there are some other maintenance and repairs that are required,” Halcrow said, estimating the annualized cost of bridge maintenance at $600,000 a year. “The structures meet the design and loading standards at the time of construction, but do not meet current seismic design standards. Having said that, and due to the nature of the structural system [girders built into pier caps], the structure should perform relatively well in an earthquake.”

Halcrow estimated $25,000 per year maintenance, $200,000 in short term retrofits, $1 million for barrier rehabilitation, $5 million for seismic upgrades and another $3 million for deck and joint rehabilitation. “If the viaducts were retained, it is estimated with the above maintenance they would have a remaining service life of 40-plus years,” said the Halcrow report.

There would be other costs. The Halcrow report, quoting Golder Associates, said remediation of toxic soils would likely cost $4 million to $8 million “if the full area was remediated to a residential standard.”

http://www.vancourier.com/news/newly....GoiCKRH6.dpuf

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Are you sure about the street lights? on the roadway? I've never noticed them but it would be a safety hazard that should be remedied by a call to 311.

The actual costs for the barrier repairs, deferred maintenance etc are big and small, IMO. Deck and joint/seismic rehab would be a big hit, but less so if annualized over the remaining life of the viaduct. If they commit to large-scale rehab, they commit to keeping the viaduct.

http://www.vancourier.com/news/newly....GoiCKRH6.dpuf

Probably about 20-30 of the lights on the east end have been out for well over a year. They're in groups of 8. Some of the lights have all 8 lights out, while several have all but a couple out.

You generally want to cover up exposed rebar as soon as you can, otherwise the corrosion can spread deeper and cause more spalling.

I've called 311 about street lights before, but I can't help but figure that since there are so many out that someone must be avoiding fixing the lights. On the east side, there are more lights out than are actually working by a fair margin.

[Genauso]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Are you sure about the street lights? on the roadway? I've never noticed them but it would be a safety hazard that should be remedied by a call to 311.

The actual costs for the barrier repairs, deferred maintenance etc are big and small, IMO. Deck and joint/seismic rehab would be a big hit, but less so if annualized over the remaining life of the viaduct. If they commit to large-scale rehab, they commit to keeping the viaduct.

They will do nothing and wait. The staff in charge are Penny Ballem's robots, and Vision hasn't lost council.

If they get re-elected, it's probable they feel they have waited long enough to have worn down opposition to the removal of viaducts and can come out on top in perception.

If they don't get re-elected, likely as Gregor should have moved on to provincial or federal politics if it weren't for his divorce/girlfriend, then they simply don't care. It'll be a great parting shot -- new council is spending huge amounts!! (catching up on deferred maintenance, the most expensive kind)

Concord doesn't care, they can wait. They pay no taxes and are making money while the land is appreciating. They've got clones of Geoff Meggs ready to bankroll if some principled independent doesn't care for their wishes or money