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  #2641  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2017, 5:25 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is online now
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Originally Posted by i_am_hydrogen View Post
First for Chicago's skyline: Open floor to cope with wind, keep residents from getting queasy
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...21-column.html
Reminds me of this video.

Video Link


Pretty sure that would cause some issues with potential residents. (and that's only on the 45th floor)
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  #2642  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2017, 10:52 PM
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Fortunately, highrises (in general) are structurally designed to move/sway - Whether wind or seismic loads (videos of highrises in Tokyo during the 2011 Tohoku/Fukushima earthquake show the incredible way the buildings were swaying, even though the epicenter was 230 miles from Tokyo), highrises have a minimum structural safety factor that is designed to allow for some movement due to external forces.

I think the idea of an open floor/s to minimize wind load effects is smart and a cheaper way to mitigate the problem....and by cheaper I mean compared to other means, like a tuned mass damper, which could also potentially alter the design much more significantly than what is being planned.
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  #2643  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 3:52 AM
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Good point, or perhaps there will be drain holes in the floor that direct water into the main stacks?
Mmm...those are gpnna freeze and expansion... ill bet a beer that these will just shed water
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  #2644  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2017, 11:31 PM
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Doesn't seem like it would be all that safe to ride a giant form attached to a crane over a construction site.
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  #2645  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 12:43 AM
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Balls of steel! That's Old School right there. Gotta do what you gotta do to get the job done. Love it.
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  #2646  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 5:46 AM
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  #2647  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 10:44 AM
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If the blow-thru was contemplated a year ago, why did the height change just this month?

Also, if the wind is such a concern that you need a blow-thru floor, why is it nearly at the top? You'd think it would be at the halfway or two-thirds point. Maybe the double-tube segment offers better rigidity, but then it also creates more wind resistance, so shouldn't the the irresistible force win over the not-really-immovable object? Plus, having the blow-thru at, say, the final setback could let it function as a giant shaded extension of the roofdeck.
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  #2648  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
If the blow-thru was contemplated a year ago, why did the height change just this month?

Also, if the wind is such a concern that you need a blow-thru floor, why is it nearly at the top? You'd think it would be at the halfway or two-thirds point. Maybe the double-tube segment offers better rigidity, but then it also creates more wind resistance, so shouldn't the the irresistible force win over the not-really-immovable object? Plus, having the blow-thru at, say, the final setback could let it function as a giant shaded extension of the roofdeck.
Why the top...?

Maybe that's where the sway was the worst?

Those floor plates are smaller, so you're losing less sellable square footage?
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  #2649  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 2:32 PM
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Balls of steel! That's Old School right there. Gotta do what you gotta do to get the job done. Love it.
He's not hooked on to anything? You know that guys been working for thirty plus years. Or he's Travis Pastrana.
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  #2650  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 4:25 PM
chrisvfr800i chrisvfr800i is offline
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Balls of steel! That's Old School right there. Gotta do what you gotta do to get the job done. Love it.
I can't imagine the number of meetings and discussions were needed to get this operation approved. ...or they just did it and sought forgiveness....
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  #2651  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2017, 7:39 PM
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I can't imagine the number of meetings and discussions were needed to get this operation approved. ...or they just did it and sought forgiveness....

always worked for me
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  #2652  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BVictor1 View Post
Why the top...?

Maybe that's where the sway was the worst?

Those floor plates are smaller, so you're losing less sellable square footage?
Well by this logic the blow-through would be on the 97th floor, but then you'd just have all the sway of a 96-story building. So you have to push the blow-through lower down to some point that maximizes the lessening of sway. In other words it doesn't go where sway is greatest; it should theoretically go where eliminating a wind load will reduce sway the most. Where that happy medium is I certainly don't know, but on the 83rd floor the blow-through is about 80% up the building, which at least seems a little high. On 432 Park, they are nicely dispersed at 22%, 37%, 53%, 69%, and 84% (going off of its Emporis page). Intuitively makes much more sense, though of course the buildings are different in their massings and in other ways.

What I'm really wondering is whether it would have been much more effective a bit lower, at the final setback -- but got pushed upwards for aesthetic reasons.
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  #2653  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 12:54 AM
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Well by this logic the blow-through would be on the 97th floor, but then you'd just have all the sway of a 96-story building. So you have to push the blow-through lower down to some point that maximizes the lessening of sway. In other words it doesn't go where sway is greatest; it should theoretically go where eliminating a wind load will reduce sway the most. Where that happy medium is I certainly don't know, but on the 83rd floor the blow-through is about 80% up the building, which at least seems a little high. On 432 Park, they are nicely dispersed at 22%, 37%, 53%, 69%, and 84% (going off of its Emporis page). Intuitively makes much more sense, though of course the buildings are different in their massings and in other ways.

What I'm really wondering is whether it would have been much more effective a bit lower, at the final setback -- but got pushed upwards for aesthetic reasons.
The concrete shear walls on the north and south end of the highest portion of the tower end at the same point as the middle portion of the tower. It's then just columns and the core the rest of the way to the top to open up views. This suggests that the portion with shear walls are going to be significantly more rigid and I would guess those shear walls are the reason they don't need any blow-thru floors below that point. One can assume that of those top floors the ones closest to the sheer walls are the most stable. Floors closer to the base have less leverage on the structure than those at the top and since they have the smallest floor plates of the frustrum making them blow-thru does even less to negate the effects of the wind because there's less surface area for the wind to push against.
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  #2654  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 1:34 AM
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Balls of steel! That's Old School right there. Gotta do what you gotta do to get the job done. Love it.
Poor bast#$×#, gonna be a long year for him! One down......
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  #2655  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 6:07 AM
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  #2656  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 9:31 AM
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Look at the thickness of the concrete!!
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  #2657  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 2:34 PM
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So correct me please. So when these forms are done going diagonal they are going to start going vertical and the forms that are going straight veritcal now are going to connect to the diagonal one to start making the floor plates?
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  #2658  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rlw777 View Post
The concrete shear walls on the north and south end of the highest portion of the tower end at the same point as the middle portion of the tower. It's then just columns and the core the rest of the way to the top to open up views. This suggests that the portion with shear walls are going to be significantly more rigid and I would guess those shear walls are the reason they don't need any blow-thru floors below that point. One can assume that of those top floors the ones closest to the sheer walls are the most stable. Floors closer to the base have less leverage on the structure than those at the top and since they have the smallest floor plates of the frustrum making them blow-thru does even less to negate the effects of the wind because there's less surface area for the wind to push against.

this was a great explanation. thank you.
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  #2659  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 5:07 PM
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Great inside look. Thanks
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  #2660  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 12:39 AM
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Wind tunnel scale models are very effective tools that help architects and structural engineers determine where lateral and seismic loads will be most detrimental to the structure on the actual highrise. That is what determined where the pass-through floor would be located. It is not arbitrary.
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