Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[H4vok]

Originally Posted by CountyLemonade

Believe me: that map was designed in-house. There's no way a design firm would have spit out a monstrosity like that.

Agreed. Somebody is definitely just spitting the map out that happens to work for UTA. Most definitely not a design firm.

[H4vok]

UTA should hold a competitition to design their transit overview map and strip maps. I believe the Moscow metro has done something similar recently and they got a great design out of it.

[BNF]

I want to congratulate the Salt Lake area on their amazing transit system. I grew up in Boise and spent a fair amount of time in Portland and Salt Lake and took the transit for granted. I now live in San Antonio, which has a metro area roughly the same size as Salt Lake's, and they are years behind in terms of transit. So nice work on being environmentally responsible and making me wish I was back in the good old Mountain West.

[jedikermit]

Just saw a test train for the S-Line crossing State....so sexy!!

[brankrom]

Excited for the S-Line but two things make me scratch my head. The current 21 bus is a faster option (at least according to the posted schedule) to 1100 East and 2100 South 10 minutes for the bus and 15 minutes for the street car. Also and the 21 runs every 15 minutes and the S Line will run every 20 minutes. Seems odd that the train in its dedicated ROW would be slower than a bus slogging through traffic. I contacted UTA about this and they told me that they went with the 20 Min schedule because they initially thought about 15 minute peak departures and 30 minute non-peak departures and opted instead for 20 min all the time... they didn't answer why the trip took longer. I'm guessing the scheduling difference for the bus vs. street car is caused by single track passing issues, but who knows.

The S-Line will run from 6 am to 9 pm Mon thru Sat and 9 am to 7 pm on Sundays.

[CountyLemonade]

Originally Posted by brankrom

Excited for the S-Line but two things make me scratch my head. The current 21 bus is a faster option (at least according to the posted schedule) to 1100 East and 2100 South 10 minutes for the bus and 15 minutes for the street car. Also and the 21 runs every 15 minutes and the S Line will run every 20 minutes. Seems odd that the train in its dedicated ROW would be slower than a bus slogging through traffic. I contacted UTA about this and they told me that they went with the 20 Min schedule because they initially thought about 15 minute peak departures and 30 minute non-peak departures and opted instead for 20 min all the time... they didn't answer why the trip took longer. I'm guessing the scheduling difference for the bus vs. street car is caused by single track passing issues, but who knows.

Yeah, I talked about this on the last page. S Line trains will be traveling between 15 and 20 mph throughout the duration of its route, mostly because of the greenway that Salt Lake City is installing alongside the track (i.e., in the name of safety). Also consider that certain crossings have nothing but a stop sign for cars crossing the track.

UTA has been aware of the fact that the S Line will be slower than the 21 for a long time. In fact, the general feeling I've gotten from UTA is that they're rather pessimistic about the S Line's initial ridership, at least for the first phase. But, because South Salt Lake and Salt Lake City have invested so much into this project, UTA has agreed to operate it. But let's be real: few people will ride the streetcar outside of peak hours—which is exacerbated by the last trains running between 9 and 9:30 at night.

[Future Mayor]

A major issue in SLC and SSL funding so much of the street car is for the future growth along the corridor. The obvious growth has been in downtown Sugarhouse as that is the current terminus of the line and is already an established destination. I believe it was "Triumph of the City" where I read that streetcar is most effective when built through and to places that are under developed, combined with connecting to a larger transit system. So while it might initially be a 20 minutes ride from end to end, as development occurs, demand increases and the more track is laid for less single track sections that time will most likely be reduced to around 15 minutes.

I would anticipate that more people, particularly those living in the Liberty Village Apartments on McClelland, will ride the S Line as opposed to the 21 bus line, if they are commuting to downtown via transit. One reason would be that the distance of the walk is about the same, but the time may be shorter time wise as they don't have to navigate across 21st S. I think it will get more use than some may anticipate by people not riding the entire distance. People living within a 1/4 to 1/2 mile of a station wanting to ride to Sugarhouse to see a movie, eat or go shopping. While it is connected to the larger system, generally speaking, Streetcars aren't used nearly as much for commuting as light rail is, and is used much more for shorter distances, within a neighborhood or to an adjacent neighborhood.

I am so anxious to hopefully be a part of development along the S-line corridor. There is so much potential for urban/walkable development in so many places along the line.

[jedikermit]

For what it's worth...

The other day I tweeted a link to H4vok's transit map, and said "This is such a better Salt Lake City transit map than the fugly new official one from @rideuta" ...which is more negative than I tend to be. I just wanted people who happen to follow me or happen to be reading things on UTA's twitter feed to know that there are better alternatives out there.

After it got retweeted and favorited a few times, @rideuta responded with: We're in the process of revamping our maps. We should have new versions released in coming months.

So....there's that.

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

A major issue in SLC and SSL funding so much of the street car is for the future growth along the corridor. The obvious growth has been in downtown Sugarhouse as that is the current terminus of the line and is already an established destination. I believe it was "Triumph of the City" where I read that streetcar is most effective when built through and to places that are under developed, combined with connecting to a larger transit system. So while it might initially be a 20 minutes ride from end to end, as development occurs, demand increases and the more track is laid for less single track sections that time will most likely be reduced to around 15 minutes.

I would anticipate that more people, particularly those living in the Liberty Village Apartments on McClelland, will ride the S Line as opposed to the 21 bus line, if they are commuting to downtown via transit. One reason would be that the distance of the walk is about the same, but the time may be shorter time wise as they don't have to navigate across 21st S. I think it will get more use than some may anticipate by people not riding the entire distance. People living within a 1/4 to 1/2 mile of a station wanting to ride to Sugarhouse to see a movie, eat or go shopping. While it is connected to the larger system, generally speaking, Streetcars aren't used nearly as much for commuting as light rail is, and is used much more for shorter distances, within a neighborhood or to an adjacent neighborhood.

I am so anxious to hopefully be a part of development along the S-line corridor. There is so much potential for urban/walkable development in so many places along the line.

I think I would say that initial demand will be low as outlined by CountyLemonade. For now the line doesn't really go anywhere and development along the route aside from the terminus is sparce. I think things will change once the city gets movingh on the park improvements in the corridor but for now, like the blue line from 2100 South to points south runs through a urban/industrial wasteland for most of its route. There are some positives with the TOD developments in Murray sure but theres a lot of work to do along the S-Line corridor to make it truly viable IMO. What are some of the properties along the SLine corridor ripe for redevelopment with willing sellers? Aside from what is being done currently at the terminus?

The key is going to be what happens in the next phase of construction of the S Line. I watched an interview of the new council members yesterday and they indicate they want to reevaluate the 1100 E alignment

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by brankrom

I think I would say that initial demand will be low as outlined by CountyLemonade. For now the line doesn't really go anywhere and development along the route aside from the terminus is sparce. I think things will change once the city gets movingh on the park improvements in the corridor but for now, like the blue line from 2100 South to points south runs through a urban/industrial wasteland for most of its route. There are some positives with the TOD developments in Murray sure but theres a lot of work to do along the S-Line corridor to make it truly viable IMO. What are some of the properties along the SLine corridor ripe for redevelopment with willing sellers? Aside from what is being done currently at the terminus?

The key is going to be what happens in the next phase of construction of the S Line. I watched an interview of the new council members yesterday and they indicate they want to reevaluate the 1100 E alignment

I'm pretty positive that after further study, if the new council members vote with logic that the line will remain on 11th E. It if was the Trib Talk interview you are referring to, I saw it too. The new council person for District 7 made a good point, that a straw poll was done and most residents and business owners on and near 11th E want phase II to be on 11th. It was a VERY vocal minority that don't. Those that don't see past perceived/imagined short term negatives to see the long term positives. If the line gets moved to go up 21st to Sugarhouse Park and Highland HS, the line will be a flop. Streetcar results in increased densities along the line, resulting in higher ridership, 11th East has potential for much higher densities, while a 6 lane 21st S (east of 13th) has nearly zero potential for higher densities.


As for properties ripe for redevelopment there are two areas that are ready to start, just waiting on a developer and, and on one, a zone change. The first and most obvious is the former Market Station between State and Main, now wholly owned by SSL. The second is the former Zellerbach building/warehouse between 3rd and 4th East.

I am not completely familiar with SSL zoning codes it appears that their current mixed use zone allows for 25 residential units per acre, with a density bonus (with certain conditions met) of 20%, allowing for up to 30 units per acre. Or their Transit Overlay District, allows for up to 65 residential units per acre.


The area formerly Market Station, SSL owns 11.64 acres of land north of the S-line up to 21st S. The City doesn't own the 7-11, the Greek Restaurant, and the office building (all on 21st S). It also does not own the land where the Check cashing place is located, just south of 7-11. There are two parcels on Utopia Ave, the road that Inkleys is on that the city doesn't own. Excluding the two Utopia Ave parcels, the Transit Overlay Zone would allow for up to 756 residential units.

The Zellerbach property spans the entire block from 3rd to 4th, fronting the S-line with a station at 3rd, and nearly 5 acres all owned by one owner and currently for sale. The Mixed Use zoning would allow for up to 143 residential units, while the Transit Overlay zone would allow for up to 311. The Zellerbach parcel is currently zoned R-1, but I know through a conversation with a person in their planning department that the city is working to rezone the S-line frontage in order to maximize its potential. Seeing as it is currently R-1, and surrounded mostly by single family residential I would venture to guess that the units per acre will be somewhere in between the Mixed Use and Transit overlay, maybe around 45 units per acre, which would allow for up to 215 residential units on the former Zellerbach property. The final zoning is of course currently undecided and so my estimates are simply based on what would be logical and result in the highest and best use of the property.

All the above potential, is just on two stops on the S-line. Two stops that are currently available for redevelopment.

[EPdesign]

http://www.letsrideuta.com/trains-of-thought/

[Stenar]

I was really annoyed with Lisa Ramsey Adams (District 7) in that TribTalk interview when she said [of the 11th E. alignment], "Where does this extension go? Jolley's pharmacy is a great pharmacy. No question. Is it a destination? Not so much."

Obviously, the destination is Westminster College a block away. It's in her district and she doesn't even know that?

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I'm pretty positive that after further study, if the new council members vote with logic that the line will remain on 11th E. It if was the Trib Talk interview you are referring to, I saw it too. The new council person for District 7 made a good point, that a straw poll was done and most residents and business owners on and near 11th E want phase II to be on 11th. It was a VERY vocal minority that don't. Those that don't see past perceived/imagined short term negatives to see the long term positives. If the line gets moved to go up 21st to Sugarhouse Park and Highland HS, the line will be a flop. Streetcar results in increased densities along the line, resulting in higher ridership, 11th East has potential for much higher densities, while a 6 lane 21st S (east of 13th) has nearly zero potential for higher densities.

...

[Future Mayor]

I really think both her and Erin Mendenhall are short sighted on the 11th East and the where does it goes train of thought. No the city doesn't have a Transportation Master Plan, but do they both really think that 17th S will be the end of the line forever?

Placing the streetcar on 11th makes much more sense as a part of the future overall transportation plan for the city. It's a logical extension from that point, up to 9th S and then to 9th and 9th and beyond, eventually linking to Liberty Park and to Trax. The 21st S option on the other hand, just takes the street car to Sugarhouse Park, and Highland High with even less potential for a future connection to a Transportation Master Plan. Not to mention ZERO development potential on that initial extension

You are correct though Stenar, the current destination is meant to be Westminster, and allow the students easy access to housing, retail and restaurants.

[Stenar]

Right, that's the other thing I was thinking, that it's not going to stop there permanently.

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I really think both her and Erin Mendenhall are short sighted on the 11th East and the where does it goes train of thought. No the city doesn't have a Transportation Master Plan, but do they both really think that 17th S will be the end of the line forever?

Placing the streetcar on 11th makes much more sense as a part of the future overall transportation plan for the city. It's a logical extension from that point, up to 9th S and then to 9th and 9th and beyond, eventually linking to Liberty Park and to Trax. The 21st S option on the other hand, just takes the street car to Sugarhouse Park, and Highland High with even less potential for a future connection to a Transportation Master Plan. Not to mention ZERO development potential on that initial extension

You are correct though Stenar, the current destination is meant to be Westminster, and allow the students easy access to housing, retail and restaurants.

[Cirrus]

Out-of-towner question for SLCers: As far as I can tell, the Sugar House streetcar never actually runs in any street, except to cross them perpendicularly. So why call it a streetcar?

[stayinginformed]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Out-of-towner question for SLCers: As far as I can tell, the Sugar House streetcar never actually runs in any street, except to cross them perpendicularly. So why call it a streetcar?

It will run in the street once the second phase of the line is complete.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Out-of-towner question for SLCers: As far as I can tell, the Sugar House streetcar never actually runs in any street, except to cross them perpendicularly. So why call it a streetcar?

Yeah, the second phase will run up 1100 East, and there it will be a true "streetcar," where right now, you're right--it's more of a small light rail. Or choo-choo. Something.

[EPdesign]

Some of the line is on Sugarmont Dr.

[Future Mayor]

The only portion of Phase I, which opens on the 8th, that runs on the street is a portion in South Salt Lake between State and Main, a new street that SSL recently built(however the street was built wide enough to accommodate separate streetcar and traffic lanes.)

As was stated Phase 2 will run in traffic lanes, along Sugarmont Drive, Highland Drive, and 11th E.

[delts145]

Salt Lake CityScape


Salt Lake City's Sugar House District Streetcar Prepares For Public Launch

By Jason Lee, Deseret News

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ic-launch.html



A streetcar prepares to depart from the Fairmont stop, 2216 S. McClelland St., as part of the new UTA S-Line in Salt Lake City on Wednesday, Dec. 4, 2013. The official grand opening of the line will be held on Thursday with service to the public beginning on Saturday. (Matt Gade, Deseret News)

SALT LAKE CITY — The Salt Lake Valley's light-rail system is adding a new route this weekend.

The grand opening of the Utah Transit Authority’s Sugar House streetcar is set for Sunday.

The $37 million, 2-mile streetcar line will run from the 2100 South Central Pointe TRAX station to McClelland Street (1045 East) and Sugarmont Drive (2225 South). Testing will continue this week until the line officially opens Sunday...


Matt Gade, Deseret New

..."We are extremely excited by the return of streetcars to Salt Lake City,” said Salt Lake City spokesman Art Raymond. “This easy-to-use mode fills in a transit gap in a manner that is very neighborhood and business friendly, contributes to the overall livability of the area, and is another effort to address our ongoing air quality concerns.”

Raymond said the streetcar corridor complements and expands options for getting around the city's "second downtown" and has helped create more than $400 million in associated investment and development.

“While the last of our once expansive streetcar grid was erased over 60 years ago, look for this opening to mark a resurgence in neighborhood rail transit in Utah's capital city," he said.


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