City Centre I & II | 161.5M - 36 F (Office) & 151 M - 47 F (Mixed Use) | Construction

[suburb]

Originally Posted by brentwood

Regarding Herald Square... even something as simple as rotating the tower 90 degrees would be an improvement. It would finally add a little variety to the orientation of buildings in the downtown. But I think a better design, especially for the top of the building would be preferable.

I agree that rotating it 45 degrees, or even an odd number of degrees (as an example, to square up to the Calgary Tower as a counterpoint to the Bow and the Tower) would make things more interesting. It would need to be managed at ground level though - using the land most efficiently, etc. Perhaps podium would need to remain, and then building above rotated. Of course, if thet don't protrude the corners out onto the street, it would decrease the floor plate. Hmmm - they then need to go taller of course

[brentwood]

Your right...ha! I meant 45 degrees. I knew I would get it wrong, and I'm supposed to be good with numbers. Funny thing is I can see the developers saying "hey why don't we rotate this thing 90 degrees and we will have an entirely new concept!"

[Elbownian]

Yup, 45 degrees will make all the difference!



Couldn't resist! Sarcasm aside, it would be nice to see a few more things break up the "box" monotony.

[kap384]

Originally Posted by RicoLance21

Just heard today: Don Quijote's is closing down tonight. Demolition to start next Monday to make way for massive mixed-use tower project.


Hello Calgary City Centre! Goodbye north view of Jamieson!

[LeftCoaster]

Good news today guys, Calgary City Centre office portion officially is a go.

Was approved by Cadillac Fairview late last week and will begin construction asap.

[Jimby]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Good news today guys, Calgary City Centre office portion officially is a go.

Was approved by Cadillac Fairview late last week and will begin construction asap.

Good news, but not great news. I wish the whole block was being built at once, or at least up to the podium level like EAP did. The economics for new hotels must be iffy for downtown Calgary.

[LeftCoaster]

The economics for the hotel are actually fine, its the condos that are grounding the second phase.

[stampedeyeehaa]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

The economics for the hotel are actually fine, its the condos that are grounding the second phase.

How will the plus 15 work? You would think even parking revenue would pay to have the entire podium built.

[LeftCoaster]

At this point there are several ideas as to how to stage the development. Obviously CF would still rather build the project as one phase, it is the preferred option for a number of reasons, but it simply may not be feasible.

With regards to the +15 the two which could be built and link into the office tower would be built and the third would be added when the residential/hotel building is completed. Currently there is a plan in the works to reconfigure the residential/hotel building to possibly get it built sooner, I will keep you guys up to date as I can.

[Surrealplaces]

Thanks for the updates LeftCoaster!

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

At this point there are several ideas as to how to stage the development. Obviously CF would still rather build the project as one phase, it is the preferred option for a number of reasons, but it simply may not be feasible.

With regards to the +15 the two which could be built and link into the office tower would be built and the third would be added when the residential/hotel building is completed. Currently there is a plan in the works to reconfigure the residential/hotel building to possibly get it built sooner, I will keep you guys up to date as I can.

To parrot SurrealPlaces, thanks for all of the updates on this project.

I'm surprised that the developers feel that the condo phase "may not be feasible" when they haven't even really marketed them yet. I know that there are a lot of condo projects in the sales stage at the moment, but City Centre is fairly unique in the sense that it is in the heart of Eau Claire and it can offer five star hotel-level ammenities.

[LeftCoaster]

Well they may not have put them on the market but there is a lot of due dilligence being done. The problem, as you even hit on, is that these are not standard $500/sf condos, these will be very high end residences (think Shangri-La in Vancouver or 4 Seasons in Toronto). Though the mid range condo market in Calgary is healthy enough, with many 20 somethings active in the market, the very high end market in Calgary is still almost entirely dominated by SFH. As much as things have changed in the younger generation it seems the older generation which control the upper spectrum of the market, still have no desire to live an urban lifestyle.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well they may not have put them on the market but there is a lot of due dilligence being done. The problem, as you even hit on, is that these are not standard $500/sf condos, these will be very high end residences (think Shangri-La in Vancouver or 4 Seasons in Toronto). Though the mid range condo market in Calgary is healthy enough, with many 20 somethings active in the market, the very high end market in Calgary is still almost entirely dominated by SFH. As much as things have changed in the younger generation it seems the older generation which control the upper spectrum of the market, still have no desire to live an urban lifestyle.

Does the Hotel portion depend on the residential? I'd love to see a hotel go up in that location.

[Bokimon]

ya know, why don't the developers phase the hotel/condo development so that way the hotel can still be built but then add more floors later to complete the condo portion.
Several projects around the continent has done its design in that sense to cope with the current markets.

But I do see the point that these condos are going to be very high class type of residences comparable to that of Princeton or the Concorde Eau Claire which is also on hold because they don't think Calgary is fully ready for the ultra high end luxury urban living yet. As a 20something myself, there is no way such calibre is within my grasp for buying power, I'd have to be at least 10 years older in order to make enough to settle into one of these places which I hope to do 10 years down the road.

Otherwise, good news for City Center, if only CF can release some more renderings!!

[Calgarian]

How many hotel rooms, and how many condos are they looking at building in ph 2?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

Does the Hotel portion depend on the residential? I'd love to see a hotel go up in that location.

Most of the new higher end tower hotels have a hotel serviced condo portion. To some degree, I think Le Germain works like that also, and certainly the examples mentioned from Vancouver and Toronto are like that. If that is the case, the hotel cannot as easily be separated from the condo portion. A successful condo portion will ensure and appropriate higher end hotel for Calgary, else we'll get 'another of the same'. I would think the (smaller) Le Germain touchstone for the Calgary market would be helpful. Didn't that get snapped up in two seconds? I understand this is larger, but still ...

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well they may not have put them on the market but there is a lot of due dilligence being done. The problem, as you even hit on, is that these are not standard $500/sf condos, these will be very high end residences (think Shangri-La in Vancouver or 4 Seasons in Toronto). Though the mid range condo market in Calgary is healthy enough, with many 20 somethings active in the market, the very high end market in Calgary is still almost entirely dominated by SFH. As much as things have changed in the younger generation it seems the older generation which control the upper spectrum of the market, still have no desire to live an urban lifestyle.

Fair enough. Cadillac Fairview are obviously very experienced, very sophisticated developers. Its easy for us cheerleaders to chant "build! build!" when it isn't our hundreds of millions of dollars on the line. In any event, I do hope that the condo/hotel phase is built at least at some point in the near future. This is my favourite proposal in Calgary right now.

[greg_a]

Any demolition yet?

[DizzyEdge]

lets say you have 2 identical towers, except one is 20 floors, and the other is 40 floors. Also assume the 40 floor one only has the bottom 20 floors finished, the top 20 are just bare concrete, although all outside work (glazing, etc) is done. How much more did the taller tower cost? Just wondering in the case of Bokimon's suggestion how much more it would cost to build the full tower, but finish off the interiors of the residential at a later date.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

Does the Hotel portion depend on the residential? I'd love to see a hotel go up in that location.

Yes it does. Not only is what subrubanite said more or less true, but there are often distinct contracts and agreements in place between the developer, hotel operator and strata that make building the hotel and residences in phases difficult or impossible.

Originally Posted by Calgarian

How many hotel rooms, and how many condos are they looking at building in ph 2?

It is still too preliminary for a concrete number.

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

lets say you have 2 identical towers, except one is 20 floors, and the other is 40 floors. Also assume the 40 floor one only has the bottom 20 floors finished, the top 20 are just bare concrete, although all outside work (glazing, etc) is done. How much more did the taller tower cost? Just wondering in the case of Bokimon's suggestion how much more it would cost to build the full tower, but finish off the interiors of the residential at a later date.

A lot of the cost would still be there as the structure and glazing (the city would never let you leave an unfinished Pyongyang-esque concrete structure in the skyline) account for a very large chunk of the cost.

There really is very little reason to build in this fashion, and due to the reasons I just mentioned in response to Surrealplaces question it is often not even an option.

Sometimes it is viable to vertically phase a project in two distinct phases (Blue Cross building in Chicago, Bentall 5 in Vancouver) but even that is a difficult prospect to make economic sense of.