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  #721  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
I know light rail is a broad category. I use it as short-hand for urban, in-street non-grade separated rail, and I always assume others do too, so that's my bad. I do think however that the common freeway/railway alignments alternatives, even when grade-separated, are stupid for a different set of reasons. But yeah, when I criticize light rail, I'm thinking Portland Yellow Line, Minneapolis Green Line, Phoenix light rail, etc.

In any case, yes there are places where it's done better than others, in that it comes much closer to metro standards. My beef is with those where they just plop it down into a street and that buses could do just as well. Comparable BRT systems don't cost nearly as much as LRT systems cost, and they're much easier to replace with real rapid transit one day.

If we're using specific examples, a Vancouver suburb wants to replace a bus line with an LRT line right now. The projected time saving is ONE minute off the current bus route, that doesn't even have its own lanes or anything. At a cost of $2 billion. I'm sure the LRT is an improvement in Houston, but it's not even close to the improvement a metro would be. Plus, shifting buses to inner lanes could be done too, and "not building rails" saves a ton of money.

Either way, my argument's less about buses this time and more compared to metros. In-street urban light rail is significantly slower than grade-separated metros, so no, I don't think it fills its role at all. It might fill its role as the primary spine of the transit network, but that's a job that a real metro could do so much better, and though it's more expensive, you'll get much more value for your money.

Sorry, I know that was all over the place, but I'm exhausted. If this discussion continues I hope to give you a much more coherent response tomorrow
-- If this deserves its own topic please feel free to move this post --

I have added a bold section to the quote above as it is a topic I have been talking on recently both in the local transit forum and on other forums. I have also been trying to push what I will describe to transit planners, transit agencies and such as a way to potentially improve transit ridership and improve pedestrian safety and traffic flow while possibly saving money from a full blown BRT build out.

I will preface this by saying this will not work in all situations and all streets but it could work in many cities on many streets/roads.

Has anyone thought about why bus infrastructure is laid out the way it is? Why are the stops on the sidewalks? Why are they predominantly at the corners? For cities with bus lanes, why are they predominantly in the outer most lanes?

Next you have the cities that have Streetcars or LRT that is separated from traffic but is also next to the curb. In some cases, there is no corresponding return option for at least 1 block.

Now, I do live in Salt Lake City, land of wide streets and blocks that go on forever, so we can fit everything in our streets. But as I said earlier, it may not work on all streets/roads it can work on many.

When Salt Lake City was first building its Light Rail system the City had cited a study that stated it was safer for pedestrians to only cross 1/2 the street to reach transit as opposed to the entire street.

This is why the entire Light Rail system in Salt Lake City runs in the center of the street once it exits a dedicated ROW just north of 1300 South. The system has dedicated lanes with stations stations in between the tracks. This is the same for the branch to the University along 4th South, to the Airport and to the Central Station where it meets FrontRunner (Commuter Rail).

Now, if it is true that it is safer for pedestrians to reach transit to only cross 1/2 the street, why aren't more transit connections in the middle of the street? Cost. Everyone thinks it has to be either LRT or BRT because no one wants to upset the current transportation paradigm.

Let's move buses from the outside lanes to the inside lanes. Within the downtown areas, add mid-block pedestrian crossings to a center pedestrian transit station where they area able to congregate and await their bus safely. They can pre-purchase tickets or other pre-boarding procedures while waiting.

For outside of Downtown areas, the pedestrian station can be placed back just far enough before the left turn lane to not cause issues. It would need dedicated pedestrian signals for safety. In some suburban areas, the stations could be located up to 1 mile apart or further if needed.

Buses would have doors on both sides of the bus but would be primarily using those on the left side since that is the lane the bus would be driving in.

This could be called BRTOT or Bus Rapid Transit Over Time.

A BRT project with full bi-direction lane separation, right of way, signal prioritization, stations, buses and more for say 12 miles, depending on the area could range between $350 and nearly $1 Billion.

Using BRTOT, the Transit Agency would just need to procure the buses, work with the City and DoT as needed to build the island stations and protected pedestrian intersections to the stations. If the agency is able to get signal priority as well that can further enhance the speed of the routes.

As the costs would vary based on route length and frequency, I used a few routes around the Salt Lake City metro area to get an idea. Some run at 15 minute frequencies, others at 30 minute frequencies. I was able to get an average cost $25 Million a route.

Costs do go down if you have more than 1 route that shares a portion of a given route which also increases efficiency. This also allows additional frequencies to be added to routes the same way, just add a bus. When ridership on a given route gets high enough to deem to be upgraded further in a segment to separated BRT, minimal work is needed to add a barrier between the now dedicated bus way and the vehicle lane. The center median can be landscaped over time.

The difference between a single BRT line or multiple BRTOT lines is drastic. Even if they didn't add/upgrade as many BRTOT but upgraded frequency to at least 15 minutes on the BRTOT routes they do add/upgrade, I would expect that the projected ridership and development potential would be close to what the transit agencies are forecasting. Transit times are probably only slightly slower if that from dedicated BRT on the route as well if signal priority is provided.

This is a transit option that hasn't been tested because no one has wanted to upset the balance but I think it should be tried.

Even traffic researchers can see that something needs to change with regards to Left Turns and maybe this is something that could change it as opposed to radical transportation designs around driving: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...d-medians.html.
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  #722  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 7:40 PM
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For comparison sake:
The recently completed Hartford-New Britain busway forms the core trunk route of teh CTFastrak system. It cost ~$600million to build the 9.4mile busway on an old rail line. It serves 12 routes.
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  #723  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Eightball View Post
3k daily riders on a 3 mile streetcar in Detroit seems like a huge success to me. What am I missing? Transit usage there is quite minimal and the line is very short. It just needs to be extended!
They spent hundreds of millions of dollars to have lower ridership than they previously had with buses. Not sure how that can be remotely considered successful.

And transit usage on Woodward Avenue is not minimal. Detroit has/had strong bus ridership on this one route.
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  #724  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 3:18 PM
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Another Phoenix Light Rail Fail: Light Rail KILLS Transit Systems

http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blo...t-systems.html

Quote:
.....

- Well, another year's ridership numbers are out for Valley Metro and Phoenix light rail and they are just as grim as they have been every year since Phoenix spent the first $1.4 billion on the first leg of the rail system.

.....



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  #725  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 3:52 PM
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you got to have a commuter line and more then one light rail line. the location of the city doesnt help, people would rather be nice and chill in there cars.
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  #726  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 5:09 PM
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The rabidly anti-rail Coyote Blog consistently ignores a number of factors:

-- Phoenix's current light rail line was built along the path of its most heavily traveled bus route. Since trains replaced buses along much of that corridor, it's only natural to expect a migration of bus riders to rail.

-- Rail funding has not starved bus funding in Phoenix. Phoenix voters approved a tax increase in 2015 that provides revenue for both. Since then, the bus fleet has been updated, service frequency has been improved, and service hours have been extended to match rail.

-- Overall decreases in transit ridership are a nationwide trend with possible causes that include an improving economy, low gas prices, and the rise of so-called "rideshare" services. Phoenix has actually done better than most U.S. cities in terms of retaining transit ridership in the face of trends that are being felt far more severely in other cities.
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  #727  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2018, 10:27 PM
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Feds give green light to next phase in Tempe Streetcar project

http://ktar.com/story/2186151/feds-g...etcar-project/

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.....

- A Phoenix-area company received approval from the federal government to enter a new phase of construction on a streetcar project, it was announced Tuesday. Valley Metro said in a press release that it was given the go-ahead from the Federal Transit Administration to begin the first phase of “significant construction” on the Tempe Streetcar. The approval will allow the company to start building the system’s rail track, power systems and street improvements this fall. --- “This milestone would not have been possible without the support of our federal delegation and officials at FTA, for which we are grateful,” Tempe Mayor Mark Mitchell said in a press release. “With this approval, we can now move forward to keep this project on budget and on schedule,” he added.

.....



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  #728  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2018, 6:38 PM
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Property Values Climb Along The Hop Streetcar Route

https://urbanmilwaukee.com/pressrele...reetcar-route/

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.....

- Property values within one-quarter mile of The Hop streetcar route have climbed almost 28% since the streetcar was given the green light in 2015. The values along the route have grown at twice the rate of property value growth citywide. Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett calls the Hop an important factor in the increase. --- “Of course, The Hop is a transportation asset. At the same time, it is an economic development tool, and we are seeing new construction and significant investments around The Hop stations,” Mayor Barrett said. “By adding to the economic strength of the center of Milwaukee, The Hop brings benefits throughout the city.” --- Mayor Barrett shared the property value information at a news conference Tuesday where he was joined by developers and the head of the downtown business improvement district. The Mayor spoke to reporters at the streetcar station at the corner of Broadway and Wells Street where multiple development projects are planned or underway. One of those projects, the new 25-story BMO Tower, is rising adjacent to the streetcar line.

.....



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  #729  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2018, 6:35 PM
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Houston METRO's $7.5 billion plan would double light-rail system

https://www.progressiverailroading.c...-system--56322

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.....

- Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County (METRO) Chair Carrin Patman on Wednesday unveiled a $7.5 billion METRONext Moving Forward Plan during the Greater Houston Partnership's annual meeting. — The proposed long-range plan calls for completing more than 40 projects including a major light-rail expansion by 2040 and beyond to address the Houston region's current and projected population growth. METRONext aims to expand commuter options and transit connections, boost bus service and increase technology investments.

.....



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  #730  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 12:17 AM
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City of Vancouver studying routes for potential future downtown streetcar

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vanc...y-january-2019

Quote:
.....

- Planners with the City of Vancouver are currently conducting a planning process that updates the 2004 Downtown Streetcar study to ensure the municipal government’s long-term plans match current streetcar technology. --- City staff confirmed that the work involves identifying needed right-of-ways and required space in streets, which will essentially “future proof for a streetcar.” It would be an extension of the future streetcar line stretching along the nine-km-long Arbutus Greenway from the area of the southern foot of the Granville Street Bridge to the Fraser River. A high-level design concept that incorporates the streetcar onto the Arbutus Greenway was approved by the previous city council last summer.

- City staff say future planning for the potential streetcar would be performed by TransLink in their upcoming long-term Regional Transportation Study that identifies projects for the next 30 years. Current work will provide planners with a better understanding of the “value of the streetcar in light of other regional priorities.” --- “The Downtown Streetcar study is particularly relevant to be integrated with land use planning happening in the city, such as the Northeast False Creek Area Plan, Broadway area planning, Gastown Complete Streets transportation study and connectivity to the Arbutus Greenway. The study outcomes will be able to feed into the next wave of future transit planning for the city including the City Plan.”

.....



Pre-built streetcar median right-of-way on 1st Avenue through the Olympic Village in Southeast False Creek. (Google Maps)






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  #731  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2019, 4:14 PM
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Charlotte streetcar line under construction. When this 2nd phase is completed they will switch from using the historic trolley cars to the new Siemens ones.


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  #732  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2019, 6:24 PM
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The Utah Transit Authority has finished extending the passing siding on its notoriously slow S-Line streetcar. The siding used to be only as long as the platform at the 500 East stop, but now it extends 1,500 feet farther west to include the 300 East stop as well (and required the construction of a second platform at the 300 East stop, which is on the right side of the pictures). This allows the two cars on the route to pass each other more easily, and UTA has promised that service on the line will increase in April - from 20 minute service to 15 minute service.
Not anything spectacular as far as transit goes, but the line and adjoining pedestrian trail have been amazingly good at attracting development. The apartment building on the right of these pictures opened late last year, and two more even larger projects will open along the line later this year - not to mention all the townhouses and other infill projects that have already been finished in the last 5 years. And, as demonstrated by the single-level building on the left, there is still a lot of room to keep building.

Link to the streetview from 2014, before construction on either the apartments or the siding extension were started:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7221...7i13312!8i6656

Last edited by Hatman; Feb 21, 2019 at 6:30 PM. Reason: Google Streetview Link
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  #733  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2019, 5:48 PM
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Phoenix votes to delay, likely kill, west Phoenix light-rail line

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...sal/3229220002

Quote:
.....

- The Phoenix City Council voted Wednesday to delay and likely kill a light-rail line planned for west Phoenix. It will instead use the money for street repairs. The line would have continued the current track down Camelback Road, connecting it to Grand Canyon University and ending at 43rd Avenue. It was slated to open in 2026.

.....
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  #734  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 7:50 PM
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State budget talks result in $100M for Metro Rail improvements

https://buffalonews.com/2019/03/30/s...-improvements/

Quote:
.....

- The Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority is in line for a $100 million state aid boost over the next five years to use for major infrastructure improvements on its deteriorating Metro Rail system. The agreement came Saturday evening between Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo and the state Legislature, according to information obtained by The Buffalo News. It is not expected to be approved in the 2019 state budget lawmakers are rushing to try to wrap up on Sunday, but officials said they expect a final statewide capital plan — including the NFTA funding — to be approved in this legislative session.

.....



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  #735  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by initiald View Post
Charlotte streetcar line under construction. When this 2nd phase is completed they will switch from using the historic trolley cars to the new Siemens ones.


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Thanks for the update. Charlotte impresses me and they're making moves at a good time as they development.
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  #736  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2019, 3:39 PM
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South Phoenix light rail extension gets federal approval, access to funds

http://ktar.com/story/2530726/south-...ccess-to-funds

Quote:
.....

- The south Phoenix light rail extension gained federal approval this week to move into its next phase, pumping millions of dollars into the project. Valley Metro, the Phoenix area’s public transportation agency, said the Federal Transit Administration gave the green light Thursday for the project to enter the Engineering phase. — According to a press release from U.S. Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Arizona), that makes Valley Metro eligible to use up to $530 million from an FTA grant program. A Valley Metro press release said the Engineering designation will let the agency continue with preconstruction activities and procurement.

.....


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  #737  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2019, 7:39 PM
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^

At the same time, a group opposed to the South Central light rail extension has garnered enough signatures to force a vote on all light rail expansion in Phoenix, even though Phoenix voters have already said yes to light rail in three separate elections. This past week, those signatures survived a court challenge. Phoenix is now caught between conflicting developments: FTA approval to go forward with this added line and a possible vote to stop new light rail construction, leaving Phoenix with just its existing single line.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ue/3446767002/
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  #738  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2019, 9:32 AM
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I was deeply saddened to learn that the first light rail line for Las Vegas, which was to go from the Airport to downtown via Maryland Avenue, has been scrapped. When I lived in Las Vegas I went to a number of the RTC meetings about the Maryland line and they were all hopeful it would get built. In lieu of that, they will have Bus Rapid Transit instead. One of the last big cities in the country not to have any light rail.

Most couldn't understand why they wanted a line down Maryland, and not from the Airport to the Strip and to downtown, but many don't realize that if you want Federal funds to help pay for it, it must be for residential use, not for tourists.

Bear in mind there's 9-10,000 taxi drivers in Las Vegas and they've long been campaign contributors to the Clark County Commission members. A rail line from the Airport to downtown might put how many out of a job.

A very sad day for Las Vegas, and have no regrets leaving there last August for Tucson.
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  #739  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by IMBY View Post
I was deeply saddened to learn that the first light rail line for Las Vegas, which was to go from the Airport to downtown via Maryland Avenue, has been scrapped. When I lived in Las Vegas I went to a number of the RTC meetings about the Maryland line and they were all hopeful it would get built. In lieu of that, they will have Bus Rapid Transit instead. One of the last big cities in the country not to have any light rail.

Most couldn't understand why they wanted a line down Maryland, and not from the Airport to the Strip and to downtown, but many don't realize that if you want Federal funds to help pay for it, it must be for residential use, not for tourists.

Bear in mind there's 9-10,000 taxi drivers in Las Vegas and they've long been campaign contributors to the Clark County Commission members. A rail line from the Airport to downtown might put how many out of a job.

A very sad day for Las Vegas, and have no regrets leaving there last August for Tucson.
I remember a business trip to Las Vegas several years ago. A colleague and I took a cab from the airport to the Venetian, where we were staying. Halfway through the ride, the driver started ranting about "black hookers" and we were forced to listen to his racist nonsense. For my return to the airport, I decided to try the local public transport. I got to the airport via bus, but I was strangely surprised that there was no single-seat ride between the Strip and the airport. I think I had to transfer to a different bus that ran along Maryland Parkway. That's more hassle than most travelers will put up with, and, as you suggest, it may be at least in part by design.
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  #740  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2019, 3:43 PM
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What is it with Americans and their opposition to transit improvements? This is bizarre.
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