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View Poll Results: Which transbay tower design scheme do you like best?
#1 Richard Rogers 40 8.05%
#2 Cesar Pelli 99 19.92%
#3 SOM 358 72.03%
Voters: 497. You may not vote on this poll

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  #901  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2007, 11:45 PM
BTinSF BTinSF is offline
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Transbay tower plans unveiled, mountain of feedback follows
John King
Tuesday, August 14, 2007

Whatever you think about the idea of a new cloud-piercing tower in the sky above San Francisco, here's one incontrovertible fact: People are paying attention.

Certainly that was the case last week at City Hall, where for two days the Transbay Joint Powers Authority displayed images of the three competing bids to build a 1,200-foot tower that would help pay for a new transit hub - also to be designed by the architect-developer teams - on the site of the existing Transbay Terminal at First and Mission streets.

More than 1,000 citizens entered the exhibition next to City Hall's rotunda to pore over models and drawings. There often were more than 50 people in the room, and 604 of them took the time to fill out comment sheets.

As for the authority's Web site ( www.transbaycenter.org), it crashed the evening of Aug. 6 because of all the traffic. The next day it received 65,000 visits - exponentially busier than a typical day. All comments handed in on paper or submitted online will be forwarded to the authority's Board of Directors before Sept. 20, when it's scheduled to select a team for the job. So you still have time to weigh in.

No matter which team gets chosen and what actually gets built, the Transbay competition already demonstrates how environmental awareness has entered the development mainstream.

Competition rules required an emphasis on green design, to be sure. But each proposal seems designed to woo Al Gore - from the subterranean geothermal energy that all three proposals would tap, to the spinning turbines that would crown each tower as a means of converting wind into energy. (And yes, they're bird-friendly turbines.)

"The importance of this issue has finally become real across the board, especially in the Bay Area," says Craig Hartman of Skidmore Owings & Merrill, the architecture firm paired with Rockefeller Group Development Corp. on one of the schemes. "There are government incentives to do highly effective green buildings, but we're also having developers of high-end condominiums and office space say they want to take green initiatives."

Besides the large-scale stabs at sustainability, each team makes smaller moves. The Skidmore design goes so far as to include compressed and recycled plastic in portions of the structure to reduce the need for concrete. And the 5.4-acre park included atop the terminal proposed by Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects and the Hines development firm doesn't just look good; its artificial streams would filter water from the adjacent buildings.

Another nice twist: Projects of this size are mandated to have large budgets for art, so the Pelli team brought an artist in from the start - hiring Sebastapol environmental artist Ned Kahn to design the metal screen and wind turbines atop Pelli's 80-story office tower as well as a fountain that would spill from the rooftop park into the terminal.

Place appears on Tuesdays. E-mail John King at jking@sfchronicle.com.
Source: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg.../DDMERH6OS.DTL

Note the link to the TJPA web site above. If you are a skyscraper fan, and especially if you are a fan of the SOM design ( ), please take a moment to submit a positive comment--one urging them not to shorten the design. You don't have to be a resident of San Francisco.
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  #902  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2007, 11:48 PM
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John king is a turd.
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  #903  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 7:52 AM
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TJPA's website crashed? Never thought I'd be saying this, but thats nice to hear.
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  #904  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 1:39 PM
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SOM's design is clearly derived of the Shanghai supertall proposal. But I like it.
I hope it gets built.
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  #905  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 2:16 PM
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I am in the vast minority here. I like the Rogers proposal the best. SOM is a very close 2nd for me. Pelli is not even in the running for me.
Pelli's design looks a little to institutional. More function than form. The top is nice but that is about it.
SOM looks to be more form than function. But what a form!!! The base is fantastic. The base alone almost made me vote for it. But as it goes up it loses some of that magic, and the top could be a bit beter.
The Rogers proposal could use a better base, but otherwise looks the best IMO. The spires, the round thingys at top (wind turbines?) the exterior bracing. All look fantastic. It looks almost like a throwback from the late 60's early 70's supertalls. ie, Hancock, US Steel.
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  #906  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenapolis View Post
The Rogers proposal could use a better base, but otherwise looks the best IMO. The spires, the round thingys at top (wind turbines?) the exterior bracing. All look fantastic. It looks almost like a throwback from the late 60's early 70's supertalls. ie, Hancock, US Steel.
that's weird because i see more Hancock in the SOM scheme than the rogers one, granting the obvious black/white difference. in fact, that's one of the things that first struck me about the SOM design, it's like what the hancock would be if it took a whole bunch of LSD and got all curvy and bendy. given SF's counter culture pedigree, this seems appropriate.
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  #907  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
SOM's design is clearly derived of the Shanghai supertall proposal. But I like it.
I hope it gets built.
In addition to Shanghai Center...
From SOM web site

http://www.som.com/content.cfm/shanghai_center

SOM's design for the Transbay Transit Tower also appears to have evolved from the design for Jingling Tower in Nanjing, China.

From SOM web site (San Francisco office)

http://www.som.com/content.cfm/www_jinling_tower
[IMG]


http://www.som.com/common/modules/ga...&iid=101302211


http://www.som.com/common/modules/ga...&iid=101302217


http://www.som.com/common/modules/ga...&iid=101302219

I was fortunate enough to stay at the Jinling Hotel in Nanjing, in 2005. I stayed in the tallest of the two other shorter gray towers shown in the renderings.

Last edited by SFView; Aug 15, 2007 at 5:37 PM.
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  #908  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 5:36 PM
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I voted for the SOM proposal. It is a truly stunning design, the second best proposal/UC in the United States after the Chicago Spire. It looks to me as it was Calatrava reinterpreting the Eiffel Tower. If the SOM proposal and the Chicago Spire are built it will continue to show what a missed opportunity Freedom Tower has been.

I would place the Pelli proposal second. The tower is good if not great and the transit hub is awesome. It may be even better than the SOM hub but the integration of the hub and the tower in the SOM design is done so well it’s hard to beat.

The Rodges proposal is pretty awful. The transit hub is cool but that tower is messed up.

I have not been following this thread closely so please excuse me if I ask some questions that have been answered before.

What SOM office designed this proposal (Chicago, New York, other, combination)?

When is this supposed to begin construction and be complete?

Where is the money coming from? And is that money already secured?
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  #909  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 5:37 PM
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^^ wow, it's seems as though those two chinese projects mated and produced the transbay design. are either the shanghai or nanjing projects under constrcution, or are they still just proposals?

regardless, SOM's San Francisco office is cranking out some pretty hot shit these days.
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  #910  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 5:43 PM
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I think SOM's is better than the *constant aforementioned best in the nation skycraper in a midwestern city*, it's more thoughtful, elaborate, and dyanimic, whereas the *constant aforementioned best in the nation skycraper in a midwestern city* is just a big drill bit in the ground

Last edited by tyler82; Aug 15, 2007 at 6:40 PM.
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  #911  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 5:54 PM
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this thread is about the transbay terminal project in san francisco, discussion of the chicago spire and the freedom tower should be taken to their respective threads. all subsequent posts attempting to turn this thread into a vs. thread between these high profile projects will be deleted from this thread.

keep it on track.
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  #912  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 8:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFView View Post
In addition to Shanghai Center...
From SOM web site
That penny whistle looking thing to the right is tacky, tacky, tacky. Who designed that? Maybe it's just a cultural thing, like when you walk into a Chinese restaurant and you are overwhelmed by gaudiness.
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  #913  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS! View Post
What SOM office designed this proposal (Chicago, New York, other, combination)?

When is this supposed to begin construction and be complete?

Where is the money coming from? And is that money already secured?
-- SOM's San Francisco office is responsible for this design.

-- From TJPA's website:

Quote:
The project's capital cost is estimated at $3.4 billion, escalated to the year of expenditure (YOE). It is funded by local, regional, state and federal funds. The first phase, which completes the above-ground portion of the Transit Center building, is funded at $983 million (YOE).
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  #914  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 3:32 AM
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^^^What is quoted above from the TJPA may be slightly misleading to those not familiar with the project (such as our out-of-town participants). Phase 1 of the project includes both the terminal and the tower but there is no actual cost (to the TJPA) for the tower because it will be privately developed after the developer pays the TJPA for the land, said money being used in part to complete the terminal. Phase 2 of the project, about $2.5 billion, is the cost of bringing heavy rail about 10 blocks (I'm too lazy to count the exact number but if you've got an SF map it's from 4th & Townsend to 1st & Mission) underground into lower floor of the terminal. This heavy rail will serve CalTrain (a commuter line connecting downtown SF and downtown San Jose with an extention south of San Jose to Gilroy) initially--CalTrain is running now but using the 4th & Townsend station--but it is hoped will eventually also serve HSR to LA.
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  #915  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 4:18 AM
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And to answer your question about timeline:

2006-2009 -- Architecture and Engineering Design
2008-2014 -- Project Construction - Phase I, Transit Center Building (tower and terminal)
2012-2019 -- Project Construction - Phase II, Downtown Rail Extension (what BT is describing)
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  #916  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 5:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut gallery View Post
And to answer your question about timeline:

2006-2009 -- Architecture and Engineering Design
2008-2014 -- Project Construction - Phase I, Transit Center Building (tower and terminal)
2012-2019 -- Project Construction - Phase II, Downtown Rail Extension (what BT is describing)
How can construciton being if engineering isn't yet finished?
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  #917  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 6:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post
How can construciton being if engineering isn't yet finished?
construction will begin on the temporary terminal on beale.
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  #918  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 5:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post
That penny whistle looking thing to the right is tacky, tacky, tacky. Who designed that? Maybe it's just a cultural thing, like when you walk into a Chinese restaurant and you are overwhelmed by gaudiness.
That's the Shangai World Financial Center, designed by Kohn Pedersen Fox.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangha...nancial_Center

It's still under construction, but I could not find a link on this forum. The design is actually 20 years old. It's aged remarkably well, and is a lot better than the post modern fantasies fashionable at the time.
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  #919  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 6:12 PM
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It's located here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=36298

Personally, I think it looks great.
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  #920  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 6:55 PM
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Thanks for being patient and answering all my questions. Best of luck to SF this development should be very exciting.
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