Canada Line races toward capacity

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by deasine

I wouldn't exactly count on this. Yes the doors may all fit, but I'm not sure if the rail infrastructure itself will support a longer train. For instance, at Waterfront Station, there is an immediate X switch to the south of the station to allow trains to switch directions ...

An extra 3m may mean that the front cab is still sticking on the switch itself which would prevent it from switching directions.

I used Waterfront the other day - there's probably enough tail track to open up the walls on the concourse at the north end of the platform and still have a bit of tail track (maybe install a bigger bumper?)

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Ok, let me back up. I believe it is documented that the C car will add 50% capacity to each train. Perhaps it does not require a full 20 meters of length to provide that amount of passenger space. But to me, it is a "full size" car regardless.

The C car will be 15 meters in length, party because it will be a dumb car that requires no "brains." Also, it will not have a nose.

[SOSS]

Does anyone know why the Richmond Olympic Oval was built so far from the Canada Line? I have a challenging time rationalizing why these two great legacy projects built at the same time weren't connected?

[Zassk]

Simple answer is, the land was available extremely cheaply there ($10 million for the entire plot, going from memory; it was previously a private campground).

Recall that a portion of the land was later sold for River Green for upwards of $140 million. The location may have been bad for transit, but it was a brilliant land transaction. Basically, the entire cost of the oval was paid for by the increase in land value, after VANOC's $60 million contribution.

I guess having it on waterfront was a priority, and the rest of the waterfront was either existing residential or industrial.

I have this transit fantasy of Canada Line one day being extended about 2 km in a semi-circle, so that it ends close to the oval and the hospital at Westminster and Gilbert, after a stop for the Minoru / City Hall precinct.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I think a large part of the equation here is frequency, not only in train or platform length.
If it were possible to invest, for the time being at any rate, more in trains, and thus increase the frequencies (maybe cutting wiait time between trains by a minute, maybe more),
they could work on the time-consuming task of rising the necessary funding for the infrastucture change.

eventually, the stations platform will have to be lengthened, simply because more and more people may eventually use public transit. I think that's what government is trying to encourage, right? For more people to use transit (train/buses, etc) as an alternative to the car. Currently, though, the car wins. It still is the most convenient form of transportation. There's nothing at the moment to deter most drivers to ditch their cars, for transit (particularly skytrain). If it were between bus and car. I, personally, would choose the car almost 100 percent of the time. The 'culture' of taking public transit just isn't there for most north americans, unlike in asia where it's basically inbred in you to take transit (95 percent, if not higher, take transit in most countries in asia). not the case in north america (with perhaps, NYC as the exception).

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Does anyone know why the Richmond Olympic Oval was built so far from the Canada Line? I have a challenging time rationalizing why these two great legacy projects built at the same time weren't connected?

Yeah. It would have made better sense for a transit stop to be right by the Oval. So people are encouraged to take transit to get there, rather than drive.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Vancity

eventually, the stations platform will have to be lengthened, simply because more and more people may eventually use public transit.

Remember that at some point you don't have to keep expanding the capacity of the existing line - you also have the option of building a parallel line. That has the advantage of a much bigger jump in capacity, opening up a whole new area to rapid transit service, and providing redundancy in the event of problems.

[SOSS]

I did a bit of research on the back story. The oval was built in Richmond because of politics. It was to be built at SFU on Burnaby Mountain. That would have been great if it was built their and connected with a gondola. With where the oval is today; yeah, I could envision a Canada Line extension to loop back and terminate at the oval. Too bad any extension will be challenging because it drops to a single track in Richmond.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by SOSS

I could envision a Canada Line extension to loop back and terminate at the oval.

Am I missing something? Does the Oval really attract so many people that it makes sense to run a rapid transit line to it? There must be literally dozens of destinations in the lower mainland that can make a much better case for rapid transit. Starting with the hospital district on Broadway.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Yeah. It would have made better sense for a transit stop to be right by the Oval. So people are encouraged to take transit to get there, rather than drive.

I could see a feeder streetcar line stopping there - on the way from Bridgeport Station to the Railway Ave RoW and Steveston.

PS - Richmond also wants / wanted to build a Convention Centre on the Garden City Lands - that would be another mistake - to build that facility away from the Canada Line.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by SOSS

I did a bit of research on the back story. The oval was built in Richmond because of politics. It was to be built at SFU on Burnaby Mountain. That would have been great if it was built their and connected with a gondola. With where the oval is today; yeah, I could envision a Canada Line extension to loop back and terminate at the oval. Too bad any extension will be challenging because it drops to a single track in Richmond.

The story was that Derek Corrigan and SFU were unwilling to contribute a dollar toward the oval. Corrigan in particular was a vocal opponent of the Olympics and the Canada Line. So yes, you could say it was politics - the politics of Burnaby.

The proposed facility at SFU was going to be a bare-bones temporary facility costing exactly the $58 million provided by VANOC. After the Olympics it would have been turned into.... a soccer barn.

VANOC saw the writing on the wall and solicited new proposals for the oval.

The City of Richmond had already donated a significant amount of money to the VANOC bid team before they won the Olympics, and had been rewarded with hosting the media centre in the official bid, which would have been in the convention centre that officedweller mentioned. (It's no longer planned.)

When the oval came back up for grabs, Richmond proposed to invest $80 million of gaming grants on top of VANOC's $58 million and build a premium venue. (Eventually a further $20 million was spent to add underground parking to the design.)

The media centre was swapped for the oval as Richmond's contribution to the Olympics. The media centre was moved downtown, which is where VANOC wanted it all along.

Burnaby/SFU lost the oval due to their complete lack of support. The Olympics got two venues upgraded as a result.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I could see a feeder streetcar line stopping there - on the way from Bridgeport Station to the Railway Ave RoW and Steveston.

PS - Richmond also wants / wanted to build a Convention Centre on the Garden City Lands - that would be another mistake - to build that facility away from the Canada Line.

If memory serves me correctly, they were considering a short streetcar line to serve the Olympic Oval. A temporary thing that would run during the Olympics like the Olympic line in Vancouver.

It would either have gone down the median of Landsdowne to Landsdowne station, or along the abandoned rail ROW next to the river to Aberdeene Station. I think using the rail ROW would have been very affordable and was sad they didn't do it. But I guess the point is moot, as the line to get into the Oval past security basically stretched back along the river to Cambie anyway.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Am I missing something? Does the Oval really attract so many people that it makes sense to run a rapid transit line to it? There must be literally dozens of destinations in the lower mainland that can make a much better case for rapid transit. Starting with the hospital district on Broadway.

I think they should have just done it right from the start. The Oval should have been built with access to Canada Line directly. To do it now would be a waste of money when other priorities exist. So now it remains a transit fantasy.

[squeezied]

I don't think you're getting the point. The Oval isn't a high ridership generator, maybe during an occasional event. There's no reason to place it next to a station. You're better off placing condos or office towers next to a station.

[Infrequent Poster]

↑ Yes, it seems like a pretty frivolous and wasteful exercise to extend the line to something like the richmond oval, just for the sake of saying it is connected.

[GlassCity]

Yeah, I grew up in Richmond and the idea of having to have the Oval on the Canada Line is kind of funny. It`s really just a huge community centre. There's nothing all that special about it and it takes up a huge area. It could use better than a community shuttle for bus service though.

[memememe76]

On a nice day, the walk from Aberdeen Station to the Oval along the dyke is a very lovely and beautiful walk. It's not like Hillcrest Community Centre is all that close to King Edward Stn and that place is packed at all times. The Oval doesn't have the same diversity of amenities and you have to pay to park. And the fees are way too high, IMO.

[SOSS]

All good points why not to have the oval along the line. Its not like the prime real-estate of DT Vancouver where developers are building (/wanting to build) high-rises on the parking lots of BC Place and Rogers Arena.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by SOSS

All good points why not to have the oval along the line. Its not like the prime real-estate of DT Vancouver where developers are building (/wanting to build) high-rises on the parking lots of BC Place and Rogers Arena.

Poor Cirque du Soleil would have no place to put their tents up. I think last time around they still were using the as-yet-to-be-developed Concord Pacific's land...
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Con...359/story.html

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Zassk

...The City of Richmond had already donated a significant amount of money to the VANOC bid team before they won the Olympics, and had been rewarded with hosting the media centre in the official bid, which would have been in the convention centre that officedweller mentioned. (It's no longer planned.)

Thanks for the info.

Does Richmond have any current plans for a convention centre?
I hope it would be on or near No. 3 Rd. & a Canada Line Station on current light industrial land.