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  #81  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2014, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mistermetAJ View Post
Before you settle too much on your strawman argument, now defining progress as "the plans will progress" let me take you back to the ACTUAL converstation, that anything new in New York is defended as "progress" and "not a museum" against valid architectural criticism. It is progress in what sense? Economic...ok. Since that is the ONLY grounds you can stand on in which "new" equals "progress" virtually unequivically, the argument has no grounds as a defense against architectural criticism.
Literally anything would be progress over what is there today - no matter how you want to define the word. Feel free to criticize whatever architecture is eventually proposed here (we still haven't seen actual design proposals, only simple massing studies), but know that, even if it's the second-worst turd of a building ever, it still represents progress compared to what it's replacing. I'm really puzzled as to why this is such an argument.
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  #82  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2014, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gttx View Post
Literally anything would be progress over what is there today - no matter how you want to define the word. Feel free to criticize whatever architecture is eventually proposed here (we still haven't seen actual design proposals, only simple massing studies), but know that, even if it's the second-worst turd of a building ever, it still represents progress compared to what it's replacing. I'm really puzzled as to why this is such an argument.
At the risk of being banned, since I'm sure NYGuy is just aching to do it, I'll try to address your post. You seem to subscribe to the same view as NYGuy that "new" and "progress" are the same thing. My contention is that they are not. "New" is not a subjective term. What was not there before and now is, is new.

However, I argue that "new" does not imply "progress". Progress, subjectively, can be the product of something new, but it does not imply it.

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Originally Posted by gttx View Post
Literally anything would be progress over what is there today - no matter how you want to define the word. .
Staying with the theme of architecture, imagine a developer sees an economic advantage in replacing the Empire State Building with a 1 story glass building. By definition, the one story glass building is new. Is it also progress? The answer is not simple and very subjective. The economic advantage provided by the 1 story glass building is "progress" for the developer. However that progress is subjective to economics. Is it progress for the New York skyline or general urbanity? I would argue it's not. That is a view subjective to the average street walking and skyline gawker.

This is why I never accepted the arguement that "New York is not a museum and" and "any new building is progress" because it give developers carte blanche to do as they please in the eyes on what I thought would be an architecturally critical message board. Isn't that what we are supposed to care about?

A less extreme example would be giving Roger Federer an new tennis racquet. By definition it is new. However, if the grip is terrible and the thread tension is bad, and his game suffers as a result, is it progress?

Long story even shorter, new is inherent and time based. Progress is a consequence (sometimes occuring). They are NOT the same thing, and at best form a coupling on certain occasions.

As for the Park Lane, it is good enough and in a good enough location where ANYTHING replacing it would not be progress, even though it is hardly a masterpiece.

Last edited by mistermetAJ; Oct 23, 2014 at 7:21 PM.
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  #83  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2014, 7:57 PM
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Ok people, enough of that. Clearly you cannot teach what won't be learned.

Feel free to live in your imaginary world mistermetAJ, but lets return this discussion to this development. Again, you can send me a PM if you wish to continue to press your case.
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  #84  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 7:07 PM
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Hmmm.
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36 Central Park South Supertower Proposal
New York, NY

Proposal for replacement of The Witkoff Group's existing Park Lane Hotel property with a 100 storey residential tower

http://www.ajsny.com/index/#/residentialportfolio/
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  #85  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 8:06 PM
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what...?
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  #86  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 8:27 PM
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Buildings Over 200 Meters 62 Completed 20 Under Construction 50 Proposed 0 On Hold
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  #87  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 8:33 PM
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rival to nordstrom eh? i like
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  #88  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 8:51 PM
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they are old and very outdated
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  #89  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 9:37 PM
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^I suspected as much. They are dated from a year ago.
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  #90  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 9:53 PM
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That would be amazing if true. I thought the existing proposal was for 850 ft., but we'll have to see once building permits are filed.
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  #91  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2014, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 View Post
they are old and very outdated
The building may change, but the views won't.

And I have to say, great views!
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  #92  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2014, 4:10 PM
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Richard Rogers Chosen as Architect for 36 Central Park South

Quote:
Witkoff Group has chosen Rogers Stirk Harbour + Partners to design the project, which is planned to rise in place of the Park Lane Hotel.

The current structure measures approximately 370,000 square feet, and while the dimensions of the redevelopment have yet to be revealed, YIMBY learned that the project will position a hotel on the lower floors, with condominiums above. This is a trait shared by several of the 57th Street skyscrapers, including One57 and the future 217 West 57th Street, an artifact of a zoning code that allows more commercial space than residential and a market that values height.

Richard Rogers is a pioneer of high-tech architecture and a giant of late modernism, and if he lives up to his reputation, 36 Central Park South could set the bar for quality in the 57th Street submarket.

The architect’s most notable project in development is 3 World Trade Center, or 175 Greenwich Street, which has finally been financed and will soon transform the Lower Manhattan skyline with its blocky massing and intricate exterior detail. But he also won a competition to rebuild 425 Park Avenue for L&L uptown, a smaller but much pricier building on the edge of the coveted Plaza District submarket.

While residential 36 Central Park South may be a softer version of Rogers’ look than his office towers downtown and on the East Side, the architect will surely bring his same overall high-tech style to the Central Park skyline, with its definitive glass, metal, exposed structural grids.
================================
http://witkoff.com/portfolio?property_id=78
http://www.yimbynews.com/2014/12/ric...velopment.html
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  #93  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2014, 4:17 PM
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Does anyone know if this is 100 stories or the way shorter 850 foot tower?
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  #94  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2014, 4:22 PM
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^^^^

Its subject to change. Actual height/floors is not definite for now so it may not be either of those. We will have to wait to find out.
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  #95  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2014, 6:49 PM
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Considering the architect, we'll certainly get something that will either get cross-the-board raves or endless pages of cyber-debate.
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  #96  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2014, 7:35 PM
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Considering the architect, we'll certainly get something that will either get cross-the-board raves or endless pages of cyber-debate.
Well, it will almost certainly be better than what is there now.
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  #97  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2014, 8:06 PM
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Yah...because I'm still having a difficult time digesting how the same starchitect that designed the über-Gothamian triumph now finally rising at WTC was the same who proposed the trainwreck that was his vision for 425 Park.
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  #98  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2014, 8:18 PM
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425 Park Ave......Norman Foster
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  #99  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2014, 9:27 PM
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I support Richard Rogers here. Let's see if he can blend his signature style with Central Park.
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  #100  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2014, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by miesian View Post
425 Park Ave......Norman Foster
I know...but the Rogers/Stirk/Harbour team was one of the finalists for the design with IIRC Koolhaas and Dame Zada Hadid.
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