Official Fredericton, NB projects thread

[Taeolas]

I'm a bit torn. Part of me would love to see the Smythe street bridge, since that would have made walking to Regent mall from the apartments near Smythe so much easier.

But now I'm moving to the North Side, and I'm equally wanting badly for the Two Nations Crossing overpass so you can get in there from the south lanes.

Plus I really would like to see the Two Nations bus route back again. It doesn't seem right that it's easier for Transit users on the North side to go to Regent WalMart and Smythe Street Canadian Tire, than to the ones on the actual North Side. :/

[OliverD]

I'm a northsider as well, but I think the Smythe Street overpass is more important because it has the potential to divert a significant amount of traffic away from the Regent and Prospect intersection which is a nightmare. We don't have that problem on the northside...yet.

[Taeolas]

If they do do the Smythe street bridge, I hope they realign the Regent Mall entrance to Bishop Drive. The current entrance is *just* offset from the road entrance meaning you have to swerve to cross the ramp and get onto Bishop.

[Bill TGH]

What traffic study suggest the volume of cars traveling on the old highway between Prospect & Bishop demands an overpass/bridge instead of a simple set of lights ?

Simply extending Smythe St across a 90Km/h stretch of divided road can't be all that different from Maple or Brookside crossing the ring road (which carries a heck of a lot more vehicles based on my un-scientific observations )

[Taeolas]

Is the Ring Road a controlled access highway? IIRC, Highway 2 is still designated as such up to the PMB. For whatever reasons, the plans probably want to keep that designation (no clue why; if they build a 4-lane to the Miramichi, I doubt they'd twin the PMB). That may cause issues for the pedestrian side of the equation too, to set up crosswalks and so forth.

There may be jurisdictional reasons too; I think Smythe street is a city street, so if the city builds a bridge, they don't have to go to the province for as much since they wouldn't be affecting the provincial highway. If they went with a level crossing, they would have to work with the province. (which shouldn't be that difficult but who knows how those dealings work?).

Of course it could be that the plan's have been forwarded virtually unchanged through the years to the point that people accept that a bridge is needed and don't consider that the situation has changed now and a level crossing may work now. (Having 2 traffic lights so close in a row might be messy, but they could always be synched up)

[OliverD]

I would imagine it would actually be three traffic lights very close together. You would have three interesections inside of 250 M of roadway. That could become very dangerous, especially if someone blocks the intersection with the highway. I think it would be best to make an overpass there to avoid that. No need to make the highway less convenient to use if we don't have too, either.

[cj6286]

I think I can speak for anyone that lives on the Northside, that transit is simply terrible! If I miss the bus, I have to wait an hour, and depending on the time of day- TWO hours. This is simply ridiculous! In my spare time, I thought up of some plans that could possibly fix this problem and even ease some congestion on the Westmorland Bridge. Wouldn't it make sense for each side to have it's own routes, then have a single bus that ran continuously from King's Place to another gathering spot on the north side? Or even a simple LRT (Light Rail Transit) system that would take route across the old Carleton Street Bridge? There is a vacant lot at the corner of Devonshire and Union Street, which would be perfect to have a station for an LRT and a spot for the buses to meet up like they do at King's Place. I would assume they would relocate the walking bridge. Make the LRT an underground section once approaching the southside (which I realise would be difficult with the flooding), street level (similar to Toronto's street cars) or an el train (similar to the sky train in Vancouver) above Carleton Street. These are just some ideas that I thought I should share. Though, I suppose any kind of train is highly unlikely...

The red is the LRT route and yellow is idea where to relocate the walking bridge.

[mylesmalley]

Welcome to the boards, cj6286!

I like the idea of hubs on either side of the river with continuous connecting busses between them. That'd be the most cost effective solution as well, as it would probably not require any infrastructure on the south side, and only the need for a parking lot somewhere central on the north side.

While the idea of LRT is neat, you're talking about millions and millions of dollars. While the piers are still there, they're probably in no condition to be used anymore, so your'e basically suggesting an entirely new bridge. Add to that the cost of rail infrastructure, demolishing and expropriating enough space on both sides, and even rolling stock, and you'd probably be pushing 100M. That said, it would be really neat.

I lived in Fredericton for four years. I'm well aware of how bad the traffic can get at times, but this isnt' Manhattan we're talking about. Most of Fredericton's traffic woes could be solved by a few simple fixes to existing infrastructure - such as building a full interchange at Smythe to lessen the pressure on Regent, improving bus transit citywide, improving access from Regent to Rt 7, and connecting Westmoreland St to York.

[cj6286]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

I lived in Fredericton for four years. I'm well aware of how bad the traffic can get at times, but this isnt' Manhattan we're talking about. Most of Fredericton's traffic woes could be solved by a few simple fixes to existing infrastructure - such as building a full interchange at Smythe to lessen the pressure on Regent, improving bus transit citywide, improving access from Regent to Rt 7, and connecting Westmoreland St to York.

Yes, I totally agree with an interchange at the bottom of the intersection of Smythe (Smythe/Brunswick/King/Woodstock). I've heard somewhere last summer that they wanted to build a round-a-bout there? The one in Brookside West works wonderfully! The only perk about it, is that 70% of drivers do not know how to use it! I've seen drivers hit the centre of it, because they thought it was a throughway. It is sad, considering it's an extremely well marked round-a-bout. I can only imagine what would happen if or when they build the one at the bottom of Smythe.
Another traffic nightmare is the interchange at Forest Hill/Waterloo Row. I understand there used to be trains that ran through the middle, but now it is easily workable. When I first moved here, I was so confused on how to use this! I can only imagine how tourists feel. This should've been a round-a-bout from the start.

[mylesmalley]

Sad thing about that intersection is that I've looked at photos of it a dozen times, and it always makes sense to me. When I'm actually going through it though, I don't know what the hell I'm doing!

More often than not, I'd just follow Waterloo for a block, turn left and get onto Beaverbrook from University.

[Taeolas]

I've long said that Fredericton's transit needs work, and the badness of it is about the only concern I have for moving to the Northside soon (fingers crossed). Sending practically ALL of the routes across the river just doesn't really make any sense.

IMO, they should buy/rent the old Canadian Tire location, and use that as a new North Side Hub. Have 1 bus that runs between the Hubs every 30 minutes or so, (buy a minibus/van for the off-peak hours but keep the 30 minute time schedule while the buses are active), and have the north side routes (including one to Two Nations Crossing) going back and forth. All the routes should be minimum hourly any day they run, with more runs during the weekdays and peak times.

I'd almost be tempted to have one "express" route that goes from Brookside to Kings Place past Uptown to the Regent Mall and back (but back via Two Nations Crossing, until a south side entrance from Ring road is made). If it could hit the North Side Hub all the better.

FT should have 2 main hubs, Kings Place and something northside, and 1 or 2 subhubs, at Regent and Killarny Lake or Brookside Mall area, and routes should go between any two hubs, route lengths set up to make transfers easy at any hub.

We should also start planning to make it "Greater Fredericton Transit", and open things up so it can expand to Lincoln and Oromocto and other communities that are practically part of Freddy now.

[cl812]

Objections to university's development plan to beheard Feb. 28 at city hall
Published Friday January 28th, 2011
A4
By HEATHER MCLAUGHLIN
mclaughlin.heather@dailygleaner.com

A public hearing of objections has been set for Feb. 28 at 7 p.m. at city hall to consider the University of New Brunswick's application to carve out eight pieces of land near the intersection of Alison Boulevard and Knowledge Park Drive for highway commercial development.

The university wants to attract a hotel and possibly a Tim Hortons outlet, among other businesses, on a 7.6-hectare parcel. The land is a stone's throw from the Grant * Harvey Centre, an ice hockey arena and sports complex expected to open in the spring of 2012.

The UNB property sits in a holding zone created for the university in the city's zoning bylaw called UNB Development Zone.

The university has been developing and leasing property atop Regent Street to generate revenue. So far it has worked with Trinity Developments to create the Corbett Centre shopping complex at Regent Street and Knowledge Park Drive. That will also be the site for a Costco store expected to open by August.

An environmental group called the Friends of the UNB Woodlot objected to the Corbett Centre project and opposes the proposed eight-lot subdivision and rezoning coming to city council.

The group said the property has wetlands that the university should protect for the public good.

In 2004, UNB went through an extensive process of sorting through its vast wooded landholdings to decide what should be held for conservation and what could be leased for development.

The property designated for development doesn't fall within areas designated under new provincial wetlands policy in the province of New Brunswick according to ADI Ltd., which is piloting the university's application through city council's approval process.

[cl812]

Fredericton has lowest office vacancy rate in Maritimes - survey
Published Friday January 28th, 2011
D1
By STEPHEN LLEWELLYN
llewellyn.stephen@dailygleaner.com

Fredericton has the lowest office vacancy rate in the Maritimes and the second lowest in Atlantic Canada behind St. John's, N.L.

A survey by Halifax-based real estate consultants Turner Drake and Partners Ltd. shows Fredericton's office vacancy rate was 6.07 per cent in 2010.

That's up from 5.3 per cent last year, said Ashley Urquhart, business development consultant with Turner Drake.

"It's good in that landlords are trying to maximize as much profits as possible," she said.

Turner Drake said it did one of the most comprehensive surveys conducted in Fredericton and looked at 58 office and industrial building.

Fredericton has 2.3 million square feet of rentable space and Urquhart said 15,690 square feet was added last year.

"The fact that was added and it is still the lowest vacancy rate in the Maritimes, that is showing there is quite a bit of demand there," she said.

Urquhart said St. John's has a 3.8 per cent office vacancy rate, the lowest in Atlantic Canada.

"They are really facing the crisis right now," she said.

Fredericton's office vacancy rate is projected to rise to 8.33 per cent over the next five years, said Turner Drake.

"I have three buildings that are coming to the rental pool: the convention complex on King and Queen streets; the Fredericton Square on 99 Westmorland St.; and then the fourth Knowledge Park Building," said Urquhart.

"Our projected vacancy rates will include that.

"If these new projects weren't coming to the table, it might be more difficult for new business startups to acquire space."

Fredericton's net rent sits at $12.96 per square foot, up from $12.81 per square foot in 2009, said the survey.

Turner Drake said the increase came from a 4.56 per cent increase in net rental rates in C class office space from 2009 to 2010.

"Compared to the rest of the Maritimes, it is kind of right in the middle of the pack," said Urquhart, about the office rental rate.

Rental costs in St. John's, Halifax and Charlottetown are a little bit higher, but Fredericton is close to Saint John and Moncton, she said.

Fredericton's industrial vacancy rate fell in 2010 to 13.11 per cent from 13.26 per cent in 2009, said Turner Drake. The falling vacancy rate can be attributed to the conversion of warehouse space to owner occupation and lack of new space being built, said the survey.

Industrial net rents dropped from $6.47 per square foot to $6.33 per square foot.

Turner Drake said while that rate is falling, it is still the highest in New Brunswick.

Frank Flanagan, Fredericton's director of development services, said the capital's office vacancy rate is both good and bad news.

"It's good that we're robust enough that we can fill office space," he said.

But it's not good when an out-of-city company is searching for space and can't find any, said Flanagan.

"That has been an issue we've had for many, many years," he said.

"Anyone coming to Fredericton looking for more than 30,000 square feet and they wanted to move in in the next few months ... we have not been able to accommodate."

Flanagan said there's a catch 22 situation in development. Banks won't loan money for a project until the developer can show guaranteed tenants and the tenants want to see the space before signing a lease.

"We can't seem to come up with a solution," he said.

"You can't build on the basis of speculation.

"It is just too expensive."

There are two buildings coming to the Knowledge Park this summer but most of that space is spoken for, said Flanagan.

The closure of Meritus University in the Knowledge Park will free up 10,000 square feet, but space in the park has certain criteria, he said.

The new downtown office building opposite the Centennial Building will have 180,000 square feet of space, said Flanagan.

The provincial government is planning to occupy that and renovate the 240,000-square-foot Centennial Building.

When the province consolidates provincial departments across the city into the renovated Centennial Building, that should free up some office space, he said.

[OliverD]

The office space issue is interesting. Realistically though, what kind of companies are coming to Fredericton and looking for 30,000 sq ft right off the bat? I don't see that happening much, if at all.

Regarding roundabouts, I really don't get why people find them so difficult. The concept is extremely simple. The Brookside Drive one is well marked and seems to work efficiently.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by cj6286

I think I can speak for anyone that lives on the Northside, that transit is simply terrible! If I miss the bus, I have to wait an hour, and depending on the time of day- TWO hours. This is simply ridiculous! In my spare time, I thought up of some plans that could possibly fix this problem and even ease some congestion on the Westmorland Bridge. Wouldn't it make sense for each side to have it's own routes, then have a single bus that ran continuously from King's Place to another gathering spot on the north side? Or even a simple LRT (Light Rail Transit) system that would take route across the old Carleton Street Bridge? There is a vacant lot at the corner of Devonshire and Union Street, which would be perfect to have a station for an LRT and a spot for the buses to meet up like they do at King's Place. I would assume they would relocate the walking bridge. Make the LRT an underground section once approaching the southside (which I realise would be difficult with the flooding), street level (similar to Toronto's street cars) or an el train (similar to the sky train in Vancouver) above Carleton Street. These are just some ideas that I thought I should share. Though, I suppose any kind of train is highly unlikely...

I dunno, I've long given up on any hope that small cities in North America can have transit systems good enough for me to actually use them.

As cool as an LRT system across the river would be, I think it would make more sense to use the old bridge piers to create a second walking bridge. It would open up access downtown to more people on the northside. Walking/biking across the Westmorland Street bridge is awkward and very noisy.

[KnoxfordGuy]

So I just signed on to the forum...even though i've been looking at the pages for a long time lol. I'm from Fredericton. The city seems to be going along pretty smooth.

[mylesmalley]

Welcome, KnoxfordGuy!

I think just about everyone on here lurked for at least a few months before taking the plunge and joining.

[cj6286]

Of course with my little free time, I planned a solution for the terrible junction at Forest Hill/Waterloo junctions. A simple round-a-bout would fix the problems here. Of course, my drawings are most likely not to code, but you get the main idea of how it works.
The gray is evidently the road, the cream colour is the sidewalks and the black is the NB Trail re-alignment. My thoughts are, they would build the bridge for the NB Trail over the round-a-bout so there is no risk of pedestrians getting hurt. In my views, the reconstruction of this traffic nightmare would be relatively simple, yet also cut down dramatically on the amount and severity of accidents that happen at this site.
Any thoughts?

[OliverD]

Here's a link to your image: http://www.flickr.com/photos/topher92/5399636949/

I think that would work well.

[mylesmalley]

Looking at it that way, they could actually convert that into a traditional + intersection with lights. It'd be at a pretty gnarly angle though. Traffic from Beaverbrook would go straight onto Lincoln Road. Forest Hill Road traffic would go onto Waterloo Row to downtown instead.

Just a thought.