Park Avenue West | 501' 7" | 30 floors | Completed

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by tworivers

I'd like to see PAW go up (jobs, taxes, skyline-filler) but I don't see the hole as *that* much worse than all the surface parking lots and giant parking garages that fill our gutted city.

I also wouldn't mind another park block going in, but 1) it will leave me feeling like losing several historic buildings was not an equal trade-off and 2) I'd hope for something better than Director Park, which is growing off me --rather than on me-- the more I experience it, much to my dismay.

I am not sure I would ever use the word gutted when referring to downtown...but thats just me I guess.

And personally Directors Park is growing on me, but again, that is just me. I was out there last week doing alittle sketching and the park has created some much needed energy. Kids were playing in the water, people were sitting at the tables chatting and eating food, I was sitting on one of the long benches enjoying the sun and sketching. For me the new park feels extremely welcoming and the light color stone and wood working of the canopy is a much welcomed feeling compared to the drab red brick sidewalks and the Nordstroms that looks like it is stuck in the 80s.

[bvpcvm]

I don't know that it's a particularly political issue - whether the economy is getting worse or not. The most liberal columnists in the NYT think it's getting worse, and of course as long as Obama is president Fox will trash anything it can possibly connect to him. All that aside, the economy isn't doing well, vacancy is high, and in two years, when the federal building remodel is complete and all those federal employees move back, we'll have another new office building to fill up (the one they're moving out of). So I don't think PAW's going anywhere for a very long time, if it all. Unfortunately.

I think the park is fine, though. I like the end away from the fountains more.

[tworivers]

Sorry, my use of the word "gutted" probably deserved more explanation. To my mind, all the vacant lots that used to hold old-city buildings, many notable; the amazing number of multistory parking garages (which also likely replaced many lovely old fabric buildings); the blocks at the west end of the Morrison; most of Naito Pkwy (I think our riverfront sucks); most of the "South Auditorium" District that used to be our Italian/Jewish neighborhood; Albina/Williams/Russell; the hideous pieces of 80's/90's corporate office architecture that replaced whole blocks -- all of this constitutes "gutted" in my opinion. I'm not a purist, either, I just think it is depressing that we ("we") replaced so much of Old Portland with junk. If the citizens who had enough foresight to preserve the cast iron facades of buildings set to be demolished back in the 40's/50's/60's had been able to actually save more of the dozens upon dozens of cast iron buildings that were demolished, we'd have a huge tourist attraction: the biggest collection of cast iron architecture outside of New York.

I collect Portland postcards and it is amazing to line up aerial views of the westside next to each other, sequentially, and see how quickly, over the course of a few decades, huge chunks of relatively-dense city were removed. Same goes for the east side in old Albina around the east side of the Broadway bridge -- where there were once intact neighborhoods of single family houses, apt buildings, corner stores, churches, etc, we now have parking lots, the PPS building, and of course the freeway. If anyone is interested I can try to scan some of my most illustrative cards.

In any event, the hole in the ground seems like a bit of poetic justice to me, even though I'd *rather* see it a hub of activity.

The park may feel more congruent to me when/if PAW goes up. Right now the quality of the streetscape around the park is subpar -- though it will improve if the Guild gets new life, PAW gets built and the parking garage gets transformed into a tower (which seems less than likely)... I don't know, I've spent a lot of time down there and I just haven't felt it, after going to all the open houses and workshops and presentations -- I was expecting "world-class" public space and instead it seems a bit pedestrian, especially the "Teacher's" Fountain with its stupid/cheesy inscribed concrete sphere. Things I like about it: Violetta and the plantings. The white brick and the canopy I like more in theory than in application. I wish Allied Works had gotten the commission, I think they would have aced it based on what I've heard Cloepfil say about his take on Portland's public spaces. I also think it's an example of too much "public process", where an undiluted vision might have delivered something more engaging and, ironically, more powerful from the standpoint of civic importance. Just my 2 cents.

[JordanL]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

Not to be political, but we don't know that we're headed into another recession. We're still finding out how bad of shape the other party left the country in. Not to be political. I find it amazing that Obama managed to avoid another great depression, but he gets zero credit. History will not be kind to the previous administration. Not to be political though.

I want PAW built as badly as anyone else, but it's going to come down to leasing. When they cross a threshold, it'll get built. Until then, we wait. I'd rather they finish the underground parking, then cap it and build a park, but that's not going to happen.

What he said was a simple statement. What this post is, is a blatant attempt to troll. I'm not going to respond to the content, because I don't want to drag it down. But I did want you to know that this post was pure trolling, and that I personally don't appreciate it.

[2oh1]

I'm not trolling. I just find it offensive when people try to slip politics in inappropriately. In this case, it wasn't needed at all.

"not to be political, but as the economy heads into another recession, do we have much hope for PAW going up anytime in the next few years?"

Those first five words unnecessarily turned a question about a building that's on hold into a political statement.

My biggest fear with PAW is this:

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

in two years, when the federal building remodel is complete and all those federal employees move back, we'll have another new office building to fill up (the one they're moving out of). So I don't think PAW's going anywhere for a very long time, if it all. Unfortunately.

That never even occurred to me. On the one hand, I hope that puts a sense of urgency in the situation for PAW, but I worry about what happens if that hole is still there in a year... or two. Like bvpcvm said, it could be there a very long time, and that's sad.

[tworivers]

^^^ I'm pretty sure I remember reading that most of the agencies that signed leases in 1st & Main signed long term leases and would not be moving back into the renovated fed building.

[bvpcvm]

^^^ huh? then who's moving in to edith green?

in either case, unless someone's already lined up to move in to the edith green building, there will be vacant space somewhere. let's say paw gets financing tomorrow and starts construction: when will it hit the market? right about two years from now. so whichever building the feds are in, there's one they won't be in which will be looking for tenants. plus paw.

anyone remember the old steel carcass at the end of the burnside bridge (where the bridgehead would have been)? that must have stood there for ten years until the city made the developer tear it down. i fear that we're in for the same with paw. moyer's an old guy - what if he dies before it gets financing? it would take time to settle his estate and then someone would have to step in and finish paw or do something else with it.

[65MAX]

Tom Moyer's granddaughter, Vanessa Sturgeon, is running TMT these days. She's a pretty tenacious, smart businesswoman. I'm pretty sure they've already planned for Mr. Moyer's eventual passing and I doubt TMT is just gonna stop functioning when he's gone.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by tworivers

Sorry, my use of the word "gutted" probably deserved more explanation. To my mind, all the vacant lots that used to hold old-city buildings, many notable; the amazing number of multistory parking garages (which also likely replaced many lovely old fabric buildings); the blocks at the west end of the Morrison; most of Naito Pkwy (I think our riverfront sucks); most of the "South Auditorium" District that used to be our Italian/Jewish neighborhood; Albina/Williams/Russell; the hideous pieces of 80's/90's corporate office architecture that replaced whole blocks -- all of this constitutes "gutted" in my opinion. I'm not a purist, either, I just think it is depressing that we ("we") replaced so much of Old Portland with junk. If the citizens who had enough foresight to preserve the cast iron facades of buildings set to be demolished back in the 40's/50's/60's had been able to actually save more of the dozens upon dozens of cast iron buildings that were demolished, we'd have a huge tourist attraction: the biggest collection of cast iron architecture outside of New York.

I collect Portland postcards and it is amazing to line up aerial views of the westside next to each other, sequentially, and see how quickly, over the course of a few decades, huge chunks of relatively-dense city were removed. Same goes for the east side in old Albina around the east side of the Broadway bridge -- where there were once intact neighborhoods of single family houses, apt buildings, corner stores, churches, etc, we now have parking lots, the PPS building, and of course the freeway. If anyone is interested I can try to scan some of my most illustrative cards.

In any event, the hole in the ground seems like a bit of poetic justice to me, even though I'd *rather* see it a hub of activity.

The park may feel more congruent to me when/if PAW goes up. Right now the quality of the streetscape around the park is subpar -- though it will improve if the Guild gets new life, PAW gets built and the parking garage gets transformed into a tower (which seems less than likely)... I don't know, I've spent a lot of time down there and I just haven't felt it, after going to all the open houses and workshops and presentations -- I was expecting "world-class" public space and instead it seems a bit pedestrian, especially the "Teacher's" Fountain with its stupid/cheesy inscribed concrete sphere. Things I like about it: Violetta and the plantings. The white brick and the canopy I like more in theory than in application. I wish Allied Works had gotten the commission, I think they would have aced it based on what I've heard Cloepfil say about his take on Portland's public spaces. I also think it's an example of too much "public process", where an undiluted vision might have delivered something more engaging and, ironically, more powerful from the standpoint of civic importance. Just my 2 cents.

I can respect much of this opinion, personally I disagree with alot of it, but that is more just a personal opinion.



Yeah, I wouldnt worry too much about the future of TMT after Moyer passes away, companies like that, that own that much property doesnt just disappear or dissolve....that would be like expecting Disney to disappear when Walt passed away.

[cab]

Stoel Rives pulls out, makes a big mess.

http://djcoregon.com/news/2010/08/13...k-avenue-west/

[pdxtraveler]

Disappointed but not surprised. They couldn't wait forever.

[2oh1]

I think this tower really is doomed. How can they possibly get it built before the Federal Building rehab is done, at which point the new tower on SW First & Main will be seeking tenants...?

I know it's not going to happen, but I'd love to see this thing capped and turned into another Park Block (with underground parking). Then, maybe Nordstrom will eventually rehab the outside of their store - especially the rear that would be facing a new park.

Either that, or scrap the tower entirely and build affordable housing with ground floor retail. I know... I know... how would they finance THAT?

I just hate seeing The Paw Hole. It's a scar on our downtown with no end in sight.

Boo for bad news, how long could Stoel Rives realistically keep waiting?

[Eco_jt]

very sad news indeed for this tower.... *sigh*

well we can only try to remain optimistic that someday soon things will pick up enough to get this going again.

[tworivers]

I've been waiting for this announcement. I think "doomed" is the right word. I wonder just how long we'll have that hole in the ground...

Speaking of my use of the word "gutted" to describe downtown PDX, Cafe Unknown has a great and timely post about how our city squandered its architectural riches. Here.

[WestCoast]

a punch to the gut. Seems bad times are going to keep rolling for us that live and work downtown.

[cab]

It's one project, I think the DT is booming right now. The streets are packed. Just look forward to all the small retail and cart villages to add vibrancy for the next few years. DT is feeling a bit more eastsidish with creative solutions popping up. That is not a bad thing.

[eeldip]

Originally Posted by cab

DT is feeling a bit more eastsidish with creative solutions popping up. That is not a bad thing.

agreed. and i didn't really notice it till you pointed it out.

in the 90's downtown/old town had lots of great cheap food, great thrift stores, music venues etc. then as the eastside developed, i found myself going downtown only for powells.

but i've been back lately for things like nong's khao man gai. with rents coming down, and plenty of condos in the sub $200k zone, i can see how downtown might be fun again.

[PacificNW]

Great to hear Cab... I have always loved dt Pdx...

[2oh1]

There are a lot of great things happening downtown recently, but there's a lot of bad too. Don't get me wrong: I am the ultimate optimist and I think downtown has a lot of potential, but we have too many prime vacancies right now. Saks. The Famous Footwear spot. The old Nordstrom Rack spot that was briefly a shoe store. The old Kitchen Kaboodle spot. The Alesandro's restaurant space next to Buffalo Wild Wings. Who knows what's going to happen with the old Greek Cuisina spot. Those are just a few off the top of my head.

I'd love to see this tower built, but I'm not sure Portland needs it. Are we building an oversupply of office space downtown? Are we going to create a ton of vacant older office buildings as the supply shuffles? I don't know. I just think it's disappointing to have the Paw hole sit as it is for years. Cap it. Build a basic, temporary park. Reassess the situation in a decade.

I know... wishful thinking.

[cab]

All those spaces have something in common. They are huge. Cities are returning to there roots as local business incubators. The phase of eddie Bauers, Saks, famous footware, planet hollywood is over. I think that's a good thing as it equals the playing field. Local money stays local, business survive and adjust according to the clients they serve rather then some corporate decree. It's an actual market economy rather then some weird gambling game between giant money men. No doubt We'll have some pains, but it really is an opportunity for the small guy to compete and grow. As a city that got a late start to the city game we should be thrilled that the playing field has been somewhat equalized.