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  #13961  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 5:40 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by skyscraper View Post
The original plan was to have duplex condos on the top floors, but the last I heard (when I worked for Vinoly and in fact was going to do construction administration for this project) that this has gone to all-rentals. However, that was before their last round of financing fell through, don't know what this lender is calling for.
So really, I have added nothing to this conversation....
Yes, condos were originally in the mix, but it morphed after lenders. I believe it is proceeding as all rentals. I had mentioned condo conversion at a later date, but I don't think they are too interested. From a developer standpoint, I suppose conversion may not too much sense (generally), is a big hassle, and requires new financing commitments. May make more sense for a subsequent owner who buys the property with that in mind.
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  #13962  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 5:42 PM
Larry King Larry King is offline
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Which site is this? Zoning? Address?
http://planphilly.com/articles/2012/...h-house-appeal

^ 223 s 6... previous project was in litigation hell, heard it was back in play so it wouldn't surprise me if it was scannapeico. I live in the neighborhood and would love to see it happen, building looks horrible as is.
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  #13963  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 5:48 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by Larry King View Post
http://planphilly.com/articles/2012/...h-house-appeal

^ 223 s 6... previous project was in litigation hell, heard it was back in play so it wouldn't surprise me if it was scannapeico. I live in the neighborhood and would love to see it happen, building looks horrible as is.
Got it. Also found this article: http://planphilly.com/articles/2015/...hed-court-says
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  #13964  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 7:21 PM
br323206 br323206 is offline
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Originally Posted by Larry King View Post
http://planphilly.com/articles/2012/...h-house-appeal

^ 223 s 6... previous project was in litigation hell, heard it was back in play so it wouldn't surprise me if it was scannapeico. I live in the neighborhood and would love to see it happen, building looks horrible as is.
Zoning is CMX-4
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  #13965  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 8:21 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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If he can get $17MM for a Penthouse you would hope he could hire a better architect on his next attempt.
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  #13966  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 8:48 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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If he can get $17MM for a Penthouse you would hope he could hire a better architect on his next attempt.
I am less enthused with 500 Walnut than some who post here, but it's not a terrible building. That said, there are few new construction residential buildings in Philly that I think have been really top notch (as far as exterior and architecture). I don't think 500 Walnut is. It's ok. Maybe this will be the one...
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  #13967  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 1:04 AM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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I am less enthused with 500 Walnut than some who post here, but it's not a terrible building. That said, there are few new construction residential buildings in Philly that I think have been really top notch (as far as exterior and architecture). I don't think 500 Walnut is. It's ok. Maybe this will be the one...
Agreed. It's certainly not offensive.

Not's not saying alot when the entry fee is something like $2,000 a square foot.
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  #13968  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 1:14 AM
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Agreed. It's certainly not offensive.
I think that's the whole point. You risk your investment as a buyer if the building is avant-garde because 20 years down the road people could decide it's really ugly.
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  #13969  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 2:56 AM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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I think that's the whole point. You risk your investment as a buyer if the building is avant-garde because 20 years down the road people could decide it's really ugly.
So a plain glass curtain wall not particularly well executed with plain concrete is not ugly?

Noted.

Plenty of rich people the world over including many in cities all over this country have demonstrated with their pocket book that there is an appetite for relevant modern design.

No need for Philadelphia to settle for an elevated suburban office park does condominium.

And to counter your point. Through much of history the work of the likes of everyone from Frank Furness and Daniel Burnham and Louis Kahn and Frank Gehry was deemed ugly.

See how that works?

Over the arc of history, as the most dynamic cities are among other things, a historical record of architectural styles, it is important to be participating through relevance rather than "non-offensiveness".

But thanks for your input.
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  #13970  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 4:35 AM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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So a plain glass curtain wall not particularly well executed with plain concrete is not ugly?

Noted.

Plenty of rich people the world over including many in cities all over this country have demonstrated with their pocket book that there is an appetite for relevant modern design.

No need for Philadelphia to settle for an elevated suburban office park does condominium.

And to counter your point. Through much of history the work of the likes of everyone from Frank Furness and Daniel Burnham and Louis Kahn and Frank Gehry was deemed ugly.

See how that works?

Over the arc of history, as the most dynamic cities are among other things, a historical record of architectural styles, it is important to be participating through relevance rather than "non-offensiveness".

But thanks for your input.
Some scorching hot takes here. I really don't think there's anything wrong with 500 Walnut. It's unexciting, that's probably the worst that can be said about it. Which architecturally speaking can be a pretty damming criticism. But in reality so many buildings are far worse. It's total middle of the road.

Also you should head up to NYC which is basically a city of buildings like 500 walnut for the uber wealthy and the vast majority look no better than this.

Obviously plenty of amazing residential buildings are built the world over. Even right here in Philly I think the bridge is phenomenal and at a much lower price point. But they are really not the norm here in Philly or anywhere I've been. It seems great modern architecture is much more common in commercial construction. People are just so much more concerned with what their living space looks like than the exterior of the building they live in. If the people buying these places don't care about exterior design, why should the developers?

500 Walnut isn't a great building, but it's certainly no reason for severe existential dread about the over the state of Philadelphia architecture.
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  #13971  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 1:30 PM
Boku Boku is online now
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Some population estimates: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ce...nix-metro.html

Apparently Philly only grew by 2900 people. Meanwhile, Maricopa County added 222 per day in 2016.

"the only reason Philadelphia has grown at all in the last 10 years is because there are more births than deaths (what demographers call natural increase), and because the city remains a destination for immigrants."

The schools get a lot of the blame for people leaving.
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  #13972  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 1:35 PM
mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boku View Post
Some population estimates: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ce...nix-metro.html

Apparently Philly only grew by 2900 people. Meanwhile, Maricopa County added 222 per day in 2016.

"the only reason Philadelphia has grown at all in the last 10 years is because there are more births than deaths (what demographers call natural increase), and because the city remains a destination for immigrants."

The schools get a lot of the blame for people leaving.
The schools are absolutely why people are leaving, among other things.
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  #13973  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 2:53 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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The schools are absolutely why people are leaving, among other things.
read the entire article, the regions isn't growing in general. It's not just the schools, if it was the suburbs wouldn't be growing faster.....l
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  #13974  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 3:56 PM
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read the entire article, the regions isn't growing in general. It's not just the schools, if it was the suburbs wouldn't be growing faster.....l
Pretty much this, Philadelphia, Chester, and Montgomery Counties have been driving growth in the region. Now that they have slowed down and places like Camden County and Delaware County continue to stagnate.

If anything these numbers illustrate why it's important for Camden to make a come back. South Jersey desperately needs an anchor on that side of the river it can build around.
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  #13975  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 4:36 PM
br323206 br323206 is offline
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Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
Some scorching hot takes here. I really don't think there's anything wrong with 500 Walnut. It's unexciting, that's probably the worst that can be said about it. Which architecturally speaking can be a pretty damming criticism. But in reality so many buildings are far worse. It's total middle of the road.

Also you should head up to NYC which is basically a city of buildings like 500 walnut for the uber wealthy and the vast majority look no better than this.

Obviously plenty of amazing residential buildings are built the world over. Even right here in Philly I think the bridge is phenomenal and at a much lower price point. But they are really not the norm here in Philly or anywhere I've been. It seems great modern architecture is much more common in commercial construction. People are just so much more concerned with what their living space looks like than the exterior of the building they live in. If the people buying these places don't care about exterior design, why should the developers?

500 Walnut isn't a great building, but it's certainly no reason for severe existential dread about the over the state of Philadelphia architecture.
Put me in the camp of people who like 500 Walnut. It's much more exciting than most of the luxury buildings being built in NYC. I wish it were a little taller but I like the design and I think it provides a nice juxtaposition to the surrounding buildings. I love the Bridge too, but I think its location is part of its appeal architecturally--being next to the bridge. It would feel off-putting in 500 Walnut's location I think.
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  #13976  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 4:37 PM
br323206 br323206 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boku View Post
Some population estimates: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ce...nix-metro.html

Apparently Philly only grew by 2900 people. Meanwhile, Maricopa County added 222 per day in 2016.

"the only reason Philadelphia has grown at all in the last 10 years is because there are more births than deaths (what demographers call natural increase), and because the city remains a destination for immigrants."

The schools get a lot of the blame for people leaving.
Maricopa County is larger in area than the state of New Jersey.
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  #13977  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 4:51 PM
jjv007 jjv007 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boku View Post
Some population estimates: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ce...nix-metro.html

Apparently Philly only grew by 2900 people. Meanwhile, Maricopa County added 222 per day in 2016.

"the only reason Philadelphia has grown at all in the last 10 years is because there are more births than deaths (what demographers call natural increase), and because the city remains a destination for immigrants."

The schools get a lot of the blame for people leaving.
As I posted in another thread, the article makes some decent points but misses the main issue imo. The primary key to a city's success is economic viability and competence. Philly is lagging behind some of its peers there and it shows.
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  #13978  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 5:00 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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As I posted in another thread, the article makes some decent points but misses the main issue imo. The primary key to a city's success is economic viability and competence. Philly is lagging behind some of its peers there and it shows.
you cant derive all of that from yearly snapshots of census data. Why cities grow or don't grow is a complex issue and one thing is for sure, southern cities have been growing faster than northern cities for decades. So in spite of supposedly superior policies MOST of Philly's peer older cities have only recently reversed decades of population loss and are still generally growing slower than sunbelt cities.
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  #13979  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 5:53 PM
br323206 br323206 is offline
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you cant derive all of that from yearly snapshots of census data. Why cities grow or don't grow is a complex issue and one thing is for sure, southern cities have been growing faster than northern cities for decades. So in spite of supposedly superior policies MOST of Philly's peer older cities have only recently reversed decades of population loss and are still generally growing slower than sunbelt cities.
It's an unpopular opinion but I think our schools issue is overblown. Is it a problem? Absolutely. But it's always given as the reason we aren't growing faster. In fact, many fast growing cities have terrible schools. Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Dallas--to name a few. On the other hand, Montco, Bucks, and Chesco have some of the best schools in the country and are also growing slowly.
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  #13980  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 6:07 PM
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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It's an unpopular opinion but I think our schools issue is overblown. Is it a problem? Absolutely. But it's always given as the reason we aren't growing faster. In fact, many fast growing cities have terrible schools. Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Dallas--to name a few. On the other hand, Montco, Bucks, and Chesco have some of the best schools in the country and are also growing slowly.
Those fast-growing cities that you mentioned have two things going for them that we lack that contribute to their population growth trajectory:

1)people like to retire there;
2)employment opportunities

Philly can try to make itself more competitive with 2) by trying to get a bigger share of other industries besides "meds and eds" but that's of course easier said than done.

Last edited by iheartphilly; Mar 23, 2017 at 6:38 PM.
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