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  #1661  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 2:14 PM
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Originally Posted by plutonicpanda View Post
While the red states do have their fair share of NIMBY's, when they want something built, it usually gets built. Freeways or mass transit lines alike. . . can't really say the same about California unfortunately.
California has 39 miles of mass transit being currently constructed: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=198794

There is only 2 miles of mass transit being currently constructed in total for red states. If you add commuter rail, streetcar and intercity there's a bit more than 2 miles for red states, but California's total still is higher than all red states put together.
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  #1662  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 6:47 PM
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Red states usually don't want to raise necessary taxes to fund anything. Look no further than the teacher strikes and protests in West Virginia, Oklahoma, Kansas, Kentucky, and Arizona. If California is viewed as an f'ing joke by some people, they should seriously consider moving elsewhere in order to make more room for those who want to be here.
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  #1663  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numble View Post
California has 39 miles of mass transit being currently constructed: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=198794

There is only 2 miles of mass transit being currently constructed in total for red states. If you add commuter rail, streetcar and intercity there's a bit more than 2 miles for red states, but California's total still is higher than all red states put together.
Texas alone has hundreds of miles of freeway under construction.

That's not really the point though, both Red and Blue states have their issues. The issue with Red states isn't absurd regulations, it's that they won't raise taxes to fund new projects. This isn't a thread about a project in a state with low taxes though so that point isn't really relevant here.
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  #1664  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 5:43 AM
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Yawn. Wake me up when California actually allows more people to live near transit. Otherwise, the land use policies in this state are no different than Dallas, if not worse. Killing SB827 is a sign to the country that California isn't serious about solving our excruciating housing crisis.
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  #1665  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 6:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numble View Post
California has 39 miles of mass transit being currently constructed: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=198794

There is only 2 miles of mass transit being currently constructed in total for red states. If you add commuter rail, streetcar and intercity there's a bit more than 2 miles for red states, but California's total still is higher than all red states put together.
Texas I believe can be considered a red state, and presently FWTA is building and testing the 27 mile long TexRail line. El Paso is building and testing 5 miles of streetcar lines. DART has just completed the DEIS for the 26 mile long Cotton Belt line, Texas Central is finalizing its FEIS for the 240 mile long HSR line.

That's significantly much more than just the 2 miles you suggest in Texas alone.
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  #1666  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 7:24 AM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Texas I believe can be considered a red state, and presently FWTA is building and testing the 27 mile long TexRail line. El Paso is building and testing 5 miles of streetcar lines. DART has just completed the DEIS for the 26 mile long Cotton Belt line, Texas Central is finalizing its FEIS for the 240 mile long HSR line.

That's significantly much more than just the 2 miles you suggest in Texas alone.
Finishing reports is not under construction. There are a lot of California reports that have been completed, such as the Gold Line extension, LAX people mover or Purple Line phase 3. I already said if you add commuter, intercity and streetcar lines it is more than 2 miles, but I also did not add those for California either, in which case California would likely still exceed the total for red states given the HSR under construction.
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  #1667  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 7:07 AM
plutonicpanda plutonicpanda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numble View Post
California has 39 miles of mass transit being currently constructed: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=198794

There is only 2 miles of mass transit being currently constructed in total for red states. If you add commuter rail, streetcar and intercity there's a bit more than 2 miles for red states, but California's total still is higher than all red states put together.
While that sounds all nice on paper, have a drive through SoCal. Almost anywhere really. Then one might think that the number you gave should be triple that. It's a miracle anything gets built in California at all with all of the NIMBY's and red tape. The new Bay Area bridge proposal, if that thing even breaks ground with current rules and regulations in place within two or more decades, lets meet for a beer and I'll eat a hat.

I stand by my comment and by no means am I saying red states are superior to blue ones. It is an observation I have picked up through my hobby of following infrastructure projects around the U.S. The U.S. in general is starting to severely fall behind countries like Japan, Spain, Norway, China, etc. when it comes to building mega projects anymore. Hopefully we fix that soon.

But on the topic of how much mass transit is being funded in Texas vs. California, my statement is still valid. I said rail lines AND freeways. I would expect California to be more supportive of mass transit than Texas.

Last edited by plutonicpanda; May 16, 2018 at 7:20 AM.
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  #1668  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 7:18 AM
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Originally Posted by viewguysf View Post
Red states usually don't want to raise necessary taxes to fund anything. Look no further than the teacher strikes and protests in West Virginia, Oklahoma, Kansas, Kentucky, and Arizona. If California is viewed as an f'ing joke by some people, they should seriously consider moving elsewhere in order to make more room for those who want to be here.
I am from Oklahoma and still follow it and Texas closely. You are completely wrong about your assumption that red states don't want to raise taxes to fund things. It happens in Oklahoma almost every year. Sure, you have your anti tax crowd, but that is the case in California too.

Oklahoman's are fed up and a recent sooner poll showed that the majority of Oklahoman's favored tax increases to fund education.

https://soonerpoll.com/news9newson6-...pport-walkout/

In this link, you will see Oklahomans(more specifically ones that are republicans)support the teachers walkout and even supported them getting even more money after they were given a raise. In OKC voters overwhelmingly voted to keep higher taxes in place to fund more transit and road infrastructure. Same thing with my hometown of Edmond.

In that link I gave you, it even shows the majority of Oklahomans oppose the Coburn's tax increase repeal bill, kind of like the one that is circulating through California to repeal the gas tax, one that I oppose at that because I don't think money generated by cars should be going towards transit, or at least the amounts of it that are going towards transit. But that's a whole different discussion.

Oklahoma got a shitty deal anyways with their education system and that is something that needs to be worked. I am in no way saying Oklahoma is a good government model. You won't need to look any further than me to find someone who is very quick to criticize the state and its conservative ways. But red states up taxes all the time to fund projects and construction, most of it is just for roads.
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  #1669  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 7:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlesCO View Post
Yawn. Wake me up when California actually allows more people to live near transit. Otherwise, the land use policies in this state are no different than Dallas, if not worse. Killing SB827 is a sign to the country that California isn't serious about solving our excruciating housing crisis.
Killing SB287 is about the best thing the state has done in recent history. There would have been a lot of unintended consequences to that are there are plenty of solutions other than a one size fits all blanket "solution."
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  #1670  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 7:23 AM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Texas I believe can be considered a red state, and presently FWTA is building and testing the 27 mile long TexRail line. El Paso is building and testing 5 miles of streetcar lines. DART has just completed the DEIS for the 26 mile long Cotton Belt line, Texas Central is finalizing its FEIS for the 240 mile long HSR line.

That's significantly much more than just the 2 miles you suggest in Texas alone.
DART is also in the planning stages of a subway and I believe Austin is gearing up for a light expansion as well. DART also has a fairly large light rail expansion in the works, IIRC. Unlike California's HSR, if the one in Texas actually breaks ground, it will actually be completed and much faster than the timeline for CAHSR.
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  #1671  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by plutonicpanda View Post
Killing SB287 is about the best thing the state has done in recent history. There would have been a lot of unintended consequences to that are there are plenty of solutions other than a one size fits all blanket "solution."
How can you complain about unnecessary bureaucratic red tape and still be opposed to SB287
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  #1672  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 5:36 PM
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  #1673  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 9:44 PM
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  #1674  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2018, 9:37 PM
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Will the Central Subway be extended to the Marina District?
By Lindsey J. Smith
4 hours ago

Time and again, the Marina District has rebuffed San Francisco's efforts to bring more public transit to the tony neighborhood by the Bay. But that may be set to change, as the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency explores the possibility of extending the new Central Subway line into the Marina.

As badly as more and better transit is needed in the neighborhood — busses, like the 30-Stockton, are perpetually packed — SFMTA officials and the district's supervisor Catherine Stefani approached the issue cautiously during a Dec. 5 meeting at Marina Middle School, the San Francisco Examiner reports.

“We’re here to listen and learn tonight,” Kansai Uchida, the Central Subway extension’s project manager at SFMTA, told attendees.

Nearly a decade ago, SFMTA began designing the Central Subway Project, which will extend the existing T Third Line underground from its current terminus at Fourth and King Streets through downtown and into Chinatown. The project, which has been under construction since 2011, will wrap and open for riders next year.

With the Central Subway Project close to completion, the city's transit agency has set its sights on possibly extending the line beyond the new Chinatown Station at Stockton and Washington Streets.

"Possible destinations include North Beach, Fisherman’s Wharf, the Marina District, and other neighborhoods in the northern portion of San Francisco," according to a statement on SFMTA's website . . . .
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranc...397&j=85451941

This has, of course, been talked about since the project began, but now we are seeing concrete and official steps to move it forward.
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  #1675  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2018, 4:59 PM
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I'm not over 40 yet and will have long turned to dust before there is subway into the Marina. Even the Geary BRT plan is almost old enough to vote.
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  #1676  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2018, 6:25 PM
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^I wouldn't be so sure of that. It does seem like there is a shift in urgency amongst SF pols and agencies.
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  #1677  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2018, 8:12 PM
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I'm not over 40 yet and will have long turned to dust before there is subway into the Marina. Even the Geary BRT plan is almost old enough to vote.
Extention of the T line to the Marina probably doesn't mean a subway to the Marina. It's quite likely the line would come back to the surface somewhere in North Beach and simply be a "modern streetcar" between that point and the Marina or wherever it terminates just as other lines are outside of downtown.
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  #1678  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2018, 8:21 PM
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^^^

This has always been the thought. Sliightly complicating the situation though is the most logical location for a portal using natural grade would be the section of Columbus where it shares tracks with the Powell/Mason cable car, which would necessitate the crossing of the rails at a skewed angle. That could be a big PITA. The cable car tracks would still be an issue even if the central subway emerged further up on Columbus.
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  #1679  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2018, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Extention of the T line to the Marina probably doesn't mean a subway to the Marina. It's quite likely the line would come back to the surface somewhere in North Beach and simply be a "modern streetcar" between that point and the Marina or wherever it terminates just as other lines are outside of downtown.
Given the costs involved it would seem better to rebuild portions of the old surface streetcar network rather than portaling out the central subway. I'm still kind of mystified how the F hasn't been extended to the Marina with the tunnel just sitting there under Fort Mason.
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  #1680  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2018, 2:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
^^^

This has always been the thought. Sliightly complicating the situation though is the most logical location for a portal using natural grade would be the section of Columbus where it shares tracks with the Powell/Mason cable car, which would necessitate the crossing of the rails at a skewed angle. That could be a big PITA. The cable car tracks would still be an issue even if the central subway emerged further up on Columbus.
They do something like this on the Embarcadero where the E line meets the N and from there they share tracks.

Actually, something similar could be done with the E/F and T--they could join somewhere near Fisherman's Wharf and share tracks from there, through the tunnel, to the Marina (or at least Van Ness).
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