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  #1281  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2014, 5:54 AM
philopdx philopdx is offline
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I try to look outside our time and our city when thinking about this issue.

Everything is historic, isn't it? Buildings that aren't seismically sound or thermally efficient are 'historic', right? The log cabins and tepees that pre-dated brick buildings were 'historic', weren't they? The old-growth trees that predated native american settlements were 'historic' as well, correct?

My point is that new creation in one geography will eventually necessitate the destruction of nostalgia. Does New York still look like the picture below? Should it? Why or why not?

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  #1282  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2014, 2:56 PM
soleri soleri is offline
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Human history is constructed on a pile of corpses. Nothing lasts forever. It's that regret we sometimes call nostalgia.

History doesn't care but we do. We can see its artifacts, which are often enchanting. We want to preserve the best, and barring that, preserve everything. Nostalgia is less a gateway than a holding cell in an old courthouse.

I don't think there's any one solution here. I think Portland's magic is due, in large part, to its large old building stock. It's more than just a personal preference. Ask almost anyone what they like about this city and they'll tell you the beautiful buildings in and around downtown. They don't mean Big Pink or the Wells Fargo Center. They mean the cast-iron buildings in Old Town, the vintage apartment buildings scattered throughout the central city, the lovely Victorians in Northwest and Goose Hollow, and the craftsmen bungalows that make central Portland feel rooted and loved.

But I agree with you. Cities can and must change. That overdue earthquake will be a wake-up call for many of us- enjoy this lovely city while you can. It won't last forever.
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  #1283  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2014, 4:12 PM
eeldip eeldip is offline
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barcelona is a pretty great city, still has parts largely unchanged since WAY before new york existed. and it has great shiny new areas.

there is a way to preserve and move forward.....
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  #1284  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2014, 1:32 AM
PDXDENSITY PDXDENSITY is offline
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From what I've gathered about Spain is that they also have a tendency for suburban sprawl on outskirts due to over-preservation. Some of Barcelona should probably be taller skyscrapers. It looks sparse, and likely is more sprawled than it should be.
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  #1285  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by PDXDENSITY View Post
From what I've gathered about Spain is that they also have a tendency for suburban sprawl on outskirts due to over-preservation. Some of Barcelona should probably be taller skyscrapers. It looks sparse, and likely is more sprawled than it should be.
What?!

Barcelona is sparse and sprawled? Obviously you've never been to Barcelona. And they do indeed have some taller skyscrapers, just not in the old city.
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  #1286  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2014, 1:01 AM
PDXDENSITY PDXDENSITY is offline
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What?!

Barcelona is sparse and sprawled? Obviously you've never been to Barcelona. And they do indeed have some taller skyscrapers, just not in the old city.
I am saying preserving historic cores does not make sense unless there's an area with even higher density, even if on the edge like in Paris. Looking at Barcelona in google images makes it still look like a sea of mid-rise.

That works up to a point, but then it becomes unnecessary sprawl if you're not building higher in some way. I'm talking about city footprint-- ecological impact.

European cities need to further spur dense high rise cores in their biggest metros. I know it's happening, but it seems to be at a slower pace when compared to actual population of these centers. I know many are growing due to immigration as well, and it behooves these places to not create ethnic ghettos to avoid the issue.
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  #1287  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2014, 5:06 AM
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Minor aside: I've never understood people's fascination with Barcelona. It doesn't even make my top 25 list of global cities.

Pdxdensity has an interesting point - what do we preserve, vs. demolish to make way for the future.

I'm ok taking down most of the old stuff. (in people, death is the ultimate renewal, making way for new people/thinking/ideas). I do enjoy European cities, but we don't have to emulate Amsterdam to be a great city.

Bring on the modern buildings, bring on the change and growth.
I actually really like how the Overton is giving a nod to the old warehouses in the Pearl.

--
Portland will never have the history of old Europe. So, let's make our own skyline and make it awesome.
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  #1288  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2014, 5:22 AM
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Originally Posted by PDXDENSITY View Post
I am saying preserving historic cores does not make sense unless there's an area with even higher density, even if on the edge like in Paris. Looking at Barcelona in google images makes it still look like a sea of mid-rise.

That works up to a point, but then it becomes unnecessary sprawl if you're not building higher in some way. I'm talking about city footprint-- ecological impact.

European cities need to further spur dense high rise cores in their biggest metros. I know it's happening, but it seems to be at a slower pace when compared to actual population of these centers. I know many are growing due to immigration as well, and it behooves these places to not create ethnic ghettos to avoid the issue.
Barcelona isn't a good example, the entire city is midrise buildings. If Portland had the same density as Barcelona, the population of the city of Portland would be 5.9 million people.

I get what you are saying, but a 39 sq mi city that has a population of 1.6 million people is a very dense city and only needs buildings that are 4-10 stories tall to achieve this. Heck, even Barcelona's transit system makes Portland's transit system (which I actually like) look like an embarrassment.
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  #1289  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2014, 11:59 AM
Encolpius Encolpius is offline
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Right. As urbanlife's post makes clear, European cities don't need any lessons about avoiding sprawl from US cities. Medium densities (averaging about six stories) work wonderfully in places like Berlin and Barcelona, and these cities also strike a reasonable balance between preserving the old and accommodating the new.

The pattern of North American cities, with a dense core and (not by accident) a sprawling periphery, reflects the unchecked power developers and financiers have typically been given to extract maximum profits from the real estate market. It doesn't represent the only possible way to sustainably design a city. In fact, Portland's strategy of 20-minute neighborhoods (learnt from European cities, obviously) is a far more promising idea for increasing density in neighborhoods that are diverse, affordable and human-scaled.
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  #1290  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2014, 2:03 PM
Encolpius Encolpius is offline
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Originally Posted by philopdx View Post
My point is that new creation in one geography will eventually necessitate the destruction of nostalgia. Does New York still look like the picture below? Should it? Why or why not?
Regarding preservation... nobody here is arguing that originally late-19th century US cities should be preserved in amber, I don't think. But what would you say to a proposal to replace the Chrysler Building and Empire State Building with new office towers that were slightly taller and engaged more dynamically with the street? Or to tear down the Statue of Liberty to build high-rise apartments that included some affordable housing? What about removing historical protection from Greenwich Village, which has become a yuppie playground anyway, and in its place installing a regular grid of mixed-income subsidized housing, including Section 8? Most urbanists, I think, would agree that these proposals represent 'progress' according to a certain narrow definition... and would also be aghast. These places are integral to New York's history and identity. Attaching value to them is not to be dismissed as 'nostalgia'; I would call it humanism.

Incidentally, skyscrapers were not the only route New York could have followed. London has also, for the past two hundred years and more, been a thriving global capital of finance and commerce -- and until very recently, its skyline had nothing much to challenge the preeminence of St Paul's. Incidentally, the boom of skyscraper construction in the City has coincided with London becoming the most unaffordable location on the planet; before the early eighties, renting a flat was relatively cheap, and plenty of still-youthful hipsters can remember when you could afford to live in Hackney or Shoreditch. Anyway, progress isn't obliged to follow a single, preordained path.

Since you bring up New York, let's not forget: it was in New York that the antiurbanist planner Robert Moses and a bunch of racist, criminal developers were allowed to decimate entire neighborhoods like the Bronx; it was when they tore down Penn Station and threatened the Village with an expressway that people like Jane Jacobs and Lewis Mumford responded by formulating the principles of modern-day urbanism, the principles that made possible Waterfront Park, the Streetcar and many other things we love about Portland -- drawing on, you might say, nostalgia for the places twentieth-century planning had destroyed.

I'm not an opponent of increasing density, of building more housing, or of good architecture that is sensitive but not necessarily historicist. But don't confuse progress with hubris. Old Town is one of Portland's most urban neighborhoods because of its unique scale and cast-iron building stock, its beautiful public spaces like Skidmore Fountain, and its seedy, countercultural history as a haven for Japanese and Chinese immigrants, gays, punks and drugstore cowboys. We should recognize that it has problems, including too many parking lots and a rather perverse concentration of human misery, and be optimistic that these can be addressed and the neighborhood improved. An urbanist is someone who values the city and wants to improve it; an antiurbanist is someone who despises the city and wants to annihilate it, even under the pretext of 'development'.

Last edited by Encolpius; Dec 31, 2014 at 2:15 PM.
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  #1291  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2015, 8:58 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
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Drawings [PDF, 27MB] for the Worldmark by Wyndham on Naito Parkway. I'll try to post images later, but in summary: it takes the historicist approach of Block 8L, but also tries to make it look like it's three distinct buildings. And not terribly successfully.

Historic Landmarks Commissions is offering Design Advice on Monday.
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  #1292  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2015, 9:01 PM
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A historic Northwest Portland building is getting a face-lift and a new lease on life.

Ganesh Sonpatki, owner of the 133-year-old Harlow Block at 722-738 N.W. Glisan St., in 2012 announced plans to renovate and reopen the long-vacant building as a hotel.

Sonpatki in 2008 purchased the building for $950,000, according to city data. In 2009, Portland-based architect Stan Chesshir applied to the Bureau of Development Services for a commercial building permit to renovate the upper floors and remodel the ground floor to accommodate a restaurant. Sonpatki put renovation plans on hold in the face of a down economy; however, after purchasing and renovating the Downtown Value Inn near Portland State University, he decided to move forward with the Harlow Block project.

http://djcoregon.com/news/2015/01/06...-guests-again/
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  #1293  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2015, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by maccoinnich View Post
Drawings [PDF, 27MB] for the Worldmark by Wyndham on Naito Parkway. I'll try to post images later, but in summary: it takes the historicist approach of Block 8L, but also tries to make it look like it's three distinct buildings. And not terribly successfully.

Historic Landmarks Commissions is offering Design Advice on Monday.
Average looking infill, but for some reason I really like the fake building insert to make it look like multiple buildings.
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  #1294  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 6:27 AM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
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  #1295  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 6:58 PM
pdxtraveler pdxtraveler is offline
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Interesting. I don't hate it at all.
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  #1296  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 7:37 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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I feel like this is designed to camouflage the small east-facing terrace. Wish they could have celebrated that part of the design instead of hid it, but landmarks. /grr
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  #1297  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2015, 1:21 AM
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I wish they would use cast iron columns on the middle section.
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  #1298  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2015, 8:13 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
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A look inside a soon-to-be-restored Old Town hotel and hostel (Photos)



Developer Matt Siegel of Building Blocks LLC wanted to develop something that didn't exist in Portland.

That is, Siegel sought to build a boutique hotel and hostel in a central downtown location that was Portland-centric and, most importantly, offered room prices that topped out where other boutiques start.

With the idea for the Society Hotel fully formed, Siegel began his quest for a location. He landed at Northwest Third Avenue and Davis Street, which already held a historic old hotel that sat mostly vacant for 70-plus years.
...continues at the Portland Business Journal.
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  #1299  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2015, 5:39 AM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
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Inside Portland’s First Food Hall, Pine Street Market

The first details emerge on an ambitious, indoor food-and-drink pod opening downtown this fall.



Food halls are the country’s next big food crush. (Just don’t call ‘em food courts.) Bon Appetit plopped one from Los Angeles right on its Best New Restaurants list. The New York Times has a crush on projects that replace generic stir-fries and pudgy cinnamon rolls with cult-worthy ramen and serious tapas. Portland is getting ready to join the movement this fall. That’s when Pine Street Market plans to open an indoor, experimental food-and-drink pod occupying the entire ground floor at 133 SW Pine St., blocks away from the waterfront and the upcoming James Beard Public Market. The project is part of a revamp of the historic 1886 Baggage and Carriage Building which has housed horses, the Old Spaghetti Factory, and the legendary underage Quest nightclub in its eclectic history. The Portland Business Journal puts the renovation tag at $5 million, which includes two floors of creative office space. The ambitious and suddenly surging design-build firm Siteworks is at the helm.

Pine Street Market is modeled after successful urban food halls in Oslo, San Francisco, Seattle, Madrid, Copenhagen and New York. Most mix star power and up-and-comers attracted to an opportunity that offers more infrastructural benefits than a food cart, but demands less investment than a full restaurant. In a city that loves incubators of all kinds, I’d expect a successful launch at Pine Street to seed a crop of unexpected food halls.

Eat Beat gleaned the first details from “culinary curator” Mike Thelin, co-founder of Feast Portland and a national culinary consultant on projects in New York, Texas, and Oregon.
...continues at Portland Monthly.
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  #1300  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2015, 5:49 AM
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...continues at Portland Monthly.
That is awesome, I saw the sign on the building the other day and wondered what kind of market was going in there.
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