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  #2261  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 4:24 PM
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What Kind of Mayor was Bernie Sanders?

In his eight years as mayor of Burlington, Vermont, Bernie Sanders revitalized the economy and solidified support for progressive municipal policies.

http://www.thenation.com/article/ber...inable-future/
The funny thing with this article is that the Bern didn't necessarily revitalize Burlington during his term- but he did set the right tone going forward. My concern is that pointing to Burlington as a success ignores that a lot of what makes it work isn't replicable elsewhere that isn't a small town with a homogeneous population, coupled with a huge university.
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  #2262  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 4:27 PM
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This is an interesting assertion; do you think Democrats are more sexist than Rebublicans? Let's say Rebublicans had year without Trump and Nikki Haley ran instead. I think she could easily have become the nominee.
I have no idea if Democratic men or more or less sexist than Republican men. But I do not think there's any question that Hillary is held to a higher standard than other candidates on questions of her competency to be President, and I absolutely think the fact that she's a woman has something to do with that. She'd have been crucified for giving the answers Bernie gave in that New York Daily News interview.

Nikki Haley would not have had a prayer to become the Republican nominee, I don't think. Which is a shame, really. She'd be a formidable opponent and good for the country as a top-of-the-ticket nominee (not winner though ).
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  #2263  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
The funny thing with this article is that the Bern didn't necessarily revitalize Burlington during his term- but he did set the right tone going forward. My concern is that pointing to Burlington as a success ignores that a lot of what makes it work isn't replicable elsewhere that isn't a small town with a homogeneous population, coupled with a huge university.
If you read about his mayorship, he was basically hated by the good ole boys who ran the town who saw him as fluke who would be gone. No one worked with him for 4 years in the City Council until he ran again and organized races against the city council members. When the majority of his picks for city council were elected, all of a sudden things just started going his way.
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  #2264  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 4:38 PM
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I have no idea if Democratic men or more or less sexist than Republican men. But I do not think there's any question that Hillary is held to a higher standard than other candidates on questions of her competency to be President, and I absolutely think the fact that she's a woman has something to do with that. She'd have been crucified for giving the answers Bernie gave in that New York Daily News interview.

Nikki Haley would not have had a prayer to become the Republican nominee, I don't think. Which is a shame, really. She'd be a formidable opponent and good for the country as a top-of-the-ticket nominee (not winner though ).
There is no doubt that sexism is involved against Clinton but that is mostly from the conservative attacks against her. They say she's "shrill" "why is her voice like that?" "Why isn't she more sweet?" I don't think that resonates with people my age at all. I think we'd all appreciate a mean grandma on our side. To me she just has a youth demographic problem and its been that way since she ran against Obama; when she talks about increasing opportunity she mostly talks about small children. Millennials aren't small children, they're big children with too much student debt in a system of ballooning insurance costs and rent costs. We don't give a fuck about Pre K.

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Apr 6, 2016 at 5:35 PM.
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  #2265  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 5:50 PM
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they're big children with too much student debt in a system of ballooning insurance costs and rent costs.
They shouldn't have paid $50,000 for degrees that were never going to give any hope of gainful employment in anything resembling a "career." Anybody who expected to walk out of undergrad with a $50k/year job in poli sci, sociology or psychology - whatever those mean - needed a stern grandma in their life a decade or two ago. A high paying job isn't a God-given right, a person needs to develop some skills and have something to offer for their paycheck.
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  #2266  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 5:51 PM
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It's still more organic than First Lady Clinton landing out of abstraction in New York and becoming senator.
While we're talking about sexism, "first lady came out of nowhere on husband's coattails" is simply not an accurate reflection of Hillary's life. She was a political personality before they got married.

She was a player in the 1960s anti-war and civil-rights protest movements, worked for congressional conferences, had a Life magazine write-up, was an important campaign staffer, was prominent in both the Harvard and Yale intelligentsia, and was a member of the congressional staff that was building the case for Nixon's impeachment. All of that happened before she married Bill. Then, when Bill was president, Hillary was often considered the brains of the operation.

You're allowed to not like Hillary. You're allowed to object to her on policy or personal grounds. But saying she came out of nowhere on her husband's coattails is factually incorrect, and frankly sexist. No.
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  #2267  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 5:56 PM
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Then, when Bill was president, Hillary was often considered the brains of the operation.
This is how middle school me, not knowing anything about anything, viewed the White House. It was the standard joke in the early-90s: We all know who's really running the show.

How that got flipped on its head - from her being more qualified than her husband, to only being here because of her husband - in just 20 years, baffles me.
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  #2268  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:03 PM
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You're allowed to not like Hillary. You're allowed to object to her on policy or personal grounds. But saying she came out of nowhere on her husband's coattails is factually incorrect, and frankly sexist. No.
You guys need to calm down. When did I say I didn't like Hillary? I like her just fine; I just know she favors the status quo of her generation; the same people who see the real estate crash as a mistake in an otherwise awesome system. She has the skillset of a cabinet member and not a retail politician. She has said the same herself.

No need to white knight her from me. Hang up the fedoras, I'm the least of her worries.
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  #2269  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:07 PM
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They shouldn't have paid $50,000 for degrees that were never going to give any hope of gainful employment in anything resembling a "career." Anybody who expected to walk out of undergrad with a $50k/year job in poli sci, sociology or psychology - whatever those mean - needed a stern grandma in their life a decade or two ago. A high paying job isn't a God-given right, a person needs to develop some skills and have something to offer for their paycheck.
Naw, tuition is too expensive and we don't have factories for all these kids to work in instead. Try again.

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  #2270  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:12 PM
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Naw, tuition is too expensive and we don't have factories for all these kids to work in instead. Try again.
We will never have factories for all of these kids to work in- nor will we have the college jobs that will be available to support current tuition rates. We don't need that many engineers- especially the shitty ones you'd get by swelling the STEM ranks. You'd just end up diluting the value of a STEM degree (similar to what has happened with the law school boom). The world is changing and the middle-skill jobs are the next that are due for a violent technological revolution which is something that none of the current candidates are able to address. Probably the ultimate solution is going to be a Universal Income, but that has to correspond with some serious entitlement reform to make it economically feasible.

I'd suggest another WWI to cull the kids ranks, but that seems to be out of favor as well. Maybe a good epidemic?
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  #2271  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:13 PM
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We will never have factories for all of these kids to work in- nor will we have the college jobs that will be available to support current tuition rates. We don't need that many engineers- especially the shitty ones you'd get by swelling the STEM ranks. You'd just end up diluting the value of a STEM degree (similar to what has happened with the law school boom).

I'd suggest another WWI to cull the kids ranks, but that seems to be out of favor as well. Maybe a good epidemic?
Or we could figure out how to reverse tuition costs. But your idea could work too...
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  #2272  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:15 PM
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When I attack something you've said for being sexist, and you say "no need to white knight her," that does not make me think I was incorrect with the earlier attack.

FYI.
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  #2273  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:16 PM
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When I attack something you've said for being sexist, and you say "no need to white knight her," that does not make me think I was incorrect with the earlier attack.

FYI.
I guess we both see sterotypes in eachother's responses... Though you seem to be getting more offended than me which is curious since I thought that was my generation's problem.
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  #2274  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:18 PM
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I'd suggest another WWI to cull the kids ranks, but that seems to be out of favor as well. Maybe a good epidemic?
This is absolutely wrong, wong. The main thing keeping the US economy afloat is population growth.

This is where the status quo genuinely is wrong. Our economy relies on a middle class market to buy products and enrich the wealthy, but income inequality is destroying the middle class and thus threatening the very market that the entire system relies on. Population growth is the only thing keeping the middle class market big enough to continue to be viable.

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Probably the ultimate solution is going to be a Universal Income, but that has to correspond with some serious entitlement reform to make it economically feasible.
Interesting idea. I imagine one of the "entitlements" that would necessitate is the entitlement to remove needlessly vast amounts of wealth from circulation in the middle class economy. Perhaps an income maximum. $10 million, $100 million, whatever. But that would take a true revolution. Probably a violent one.
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Last edited by Cirrus; Apr 6, 2016 at 6:33 PM.
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  #2275  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:23 PM
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Though you seem to be getting more offended than me which is curious since I thought that was my generation's problem.
Anybody who has a problem with other people getting offended just doesn't like being disagreed with. It's a hypocritical argument and you'll never hear me make it, thanks.
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  #2276  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:28 PM
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Anybody who has a problem with other people getting offended just doesn't like being disagreed with. It's a hypocritical argument and you'll never hear me make it, thanks.
Well I like you, so you lose.
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  #2277  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:32 PM
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Ha. OK. Whatchagonnado?
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  #2278  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:44 PM
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This is absolutely wrong, wong. The main thing keeping the US economy afloat is population growth.

This is where the status quo genuinely is wrong. Our economy relies on a middle class market to buy products and enrich the wealthy, but income inequality is destroying the middle class and thus threatening the very market that the entire system relies on. Population growth is the only thing keeping the middle class market big enough to continue to be viable.

True, but I don't see income inequality decreasing anytime soon- I see it accelerating. Which is going to lead to major social upheaval as a growing population sees continually diminishing living standards for a large portion of the population. Barring some serious changes to how society provides for survival (work for income vs guaranteed income), we're accelerating down a path towards major social unrest because the social system as is cannot provide for a continued improvement to human life.

A good war would delay this social disruption. You know, the kind with massive social destruction where we get rid of this whole aversion to "collateral damage". Drop a couple nukes of DC- at least the Metro could have some time to make those bothersome repairs.
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Last edited by wong21fr; Apr 6, 2016 at 6:55 PM.
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  #2279  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 6:50 PM
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Or we could figure out how to reverse tuition costs. But your idea could work too...
I don't understand how making it cheaper to get a degree that provides no marketable skills is the solution. Maybe they should just be service workers without a college degree. I'm more likely to tip well if I haven't subsidized a $50,000 education first.
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  #2280  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 7:04 PM
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An art history degree may not give you a marketable skill, but it does give you certification as an adult capable of attending enough classes to not flunk out. That's not completely valueless. There are probably better ways of certifying it than 4 years and $50,000 minimum tuition, though.

I anticipate big growth in community colleges over the next generation.
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