Is the era of new MLB ballparks coming to an end?

[Buckeye Native 001]

^Kelly green seats. Always the kelly green seats...

I do have to admit a fondness for Riverfront, despite all its flaws. I grew up there watching Reds baseball in the summertime. Top six seats were dirt cheap (between $3.50 and $6.00 if I remember correctly, from the late 80s to mid 1990s). Say what you will about Marge Schott (racist bitch), she kept the game affordable for a generation of Cincinnatians. I was sad the day it was imploded, and am still sort of bitter about GABP not being placed in the far superior Broadway Commons location on the eastern edge of Over the Rhine. Its separated from the rest of Downtown by Fort Washington Way (there's speculation the trench will someday be capped) with an outfield view of...Northern Kentucky.

The building itself is alright, but the location and outfield view leave much to be desired.

[ItsConanOBrien]

Interesting topic and I agree with the conclusions in the first post concerning which stadiums should stay and which should go.

Is the old Tiger Stadium in Detroit still standing or has that been torn down? It's on google maps but not sure how old the image is. If it is still standing (in some state of disrepair) then it would be my favorite abandoned ballpark.


http://www.baseballforum.com/photopo...ight_fielc.jpg

PS - Where is everyone in the stands? I bet tickets weren't that expensive.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Most of it's been torn down except for the grandstand/press box directly behind home plate, which the locals had been trying to save and turn into a little league park.

Last I heard, there wasn't enough money raised to save that portion, and it was going to be destroyed. A judge stepped in at the last minute to delay the demolition, but its apparently being resumed.

Here's what remained:

source

Article on the demolition:

http://www.freep.com/article/2009060...0362/1003/NEWS
Wrecking team is back at Tiger Stadium

Judge ends stay; preservation over

BY BILL McGRAW and NICQUEL TERRY
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS

A machine with a long, sinewy arm topped by a powerful claw stripped away concrete and seats from Tiger Stadium's upper deck Monday afternoon, after a judge cleared the way for the final phase of ballpark demolition and preservationists announced they were giving up their long, passionate but ill-funded fight.

With nothing apparently standing in the way of the stadium's ultimate demise, a cross section of metro Detroiters, visitors and even a film student from New Jersey gathered on the freeway bridge beyond left field and the lot on the corner of Trumbull and I-75 to shoot photos, trade stories and weigh in on the decision by a City of Detroit agency to resume demolition.

Dan Duva, a 53-year-old fan from Holly, carried a Tigers banner he received at his first visit to the stadium as a fourth-grader.

"It's a loss to your inner being," Duva said.

Monday morning, Wayne County Circuit Judge Prentiss Edwards lifted the temporary order issued Friday that halted demolition. He refused to extend it while the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy appealed his decision.

As a result, Thomas Linn, a leader of the group, said: "We are not going to appeal."

For 22 years -- more than a decade before the Tigers left for Comerica Park in 1999 -- a long list of preservationists has fought to save the stadium.

The Detroit preservation effort was unusual: Most old major league parks -- including Yankee Stadium -- have been discarded with little fanfare. The conservancy made several appeals to Detroit Mayor Dave Bing, but he issued a statement Monday indicating he would not interfere with the decision of the Detroit Economic Development Corp.

The agency's attorneys said in court Monday that the conservancy had multiple extensions to meet financial deadlines for the proposed $27-million redevelopment that the group planned for the park.

Much of the stadium was torn down last year. Demolition of the remaining dugout-to-dugout section was approved last week on a 7-1 vote by the development agency.

"The city never had any intention to play fair or had the vision to see this proposal through," said Francis Grunow, former executive director of Preservation Wayne.

Contact BILL McGRAW: bmcgraw@freepress.com.

[Nowhereman1280]

Can we get some pictures comparing the best and the worst of the pre-camden parks and the best and worst of the post-camden parks?

I was in Minneapolis two weekends ago and boy does that new stadium look sharp! I think its the stadium in the US with the most modern design.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Can't get photos right now, but in my opinion:

Best Pre-Camden:
1. Wrigley Field (Really a tossup between Wrigley or Fenway)

Worst Pre-Camden:
Oakland/Alameda County Coliseum (or whatever its called nowadays)

Best post-Camden:
1. PNC Park (despite its horrible tenant)

Worst post-Camden:
2. Tropicana Field

[pdxhome]

Worst post-Camden:
2. Tropicana Field

I didn't realize Tropicana was a post Camden stadium. Was it actually built after Camden or just renovated? It looks dated...

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by pdxhome

I didn't realize Tropicana was a post Camden stadium. Was it actually built after Camden or just renovated? It looks dated...

Built in 1990 but housed the Tampa Bay Lightning for several years. Once Tampa was awarded an MLB franchise, they renovated the stadium to get it ready for Opening Day 1998.

[Fusey]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

also from wikipedia, it's said that along with san jose, the A's are also contemplating potential moves to sacramento or portland as well.

I think the A's would stick with the Bay Area. They've got a great fan base, but unfortunately they have to deal with California politics in any attempt to build a new stadium.

And Tropicana is a joke. If it were a movie, it would be directed by the morons who make Date Movie, Epic Movie, Meet the Spartans, etc.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i completely agree, we can quibble about po-mo brick detailing on the exterior of this stadium or that one, or perhaps what some have derided as the distraction-ridden "mall-parks" that take focus away from the game itself, but i still think the development of baseball-only stadiums over the past 2 decades has been great for the game of baseball at the professional level.

there era of the one-size-fits-all, concrete, soulless, multi-use, donut is long since dead, and it's a wonderful thing regardless of what architectural vocabulary the designers choose to wrap these new baseball-only facilities with.

Most retro ballparks get their complaints in that they distract from the game. That is one thing that was done very right with Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia; they did not set out to include goofy nuances like the hill in Houston or anything like that. The stadium was built to give every seat a great view of the stadium. The stadium was built to grab attention towards the field, not to a park in the outfield or anything like that. Seats were tilted so that each seat in the entire stadium faces directly or almost directly at the infield, where the most action is.

I think that's where the next wave of stadiums will head. The new A's ballpark was supposed to allow fans to get into the game more than they could before. Their method was through technology, however; real-time stats on the scoreboard, kiosks or something like that for every seat to read up on players, and so on.

[brickell]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Built in 1990 but housed the Tampa Bay Lightning for several years. Once Tampa was awarded an MLB franchise, they renovated the stadium to get it ready for Opening Day 1998.

If I'm not mistaken, it was built to lure a baseball team, but as a multi-purpose building as a hedge. At the very least it's a cookie cutter style more reminiscent of pre-camden ballparks. Besides being drearily dark inside, it's not a bad place to watch a game. Now that they have a good team, the biggest thing missing from there is the fans. A good turnout can make all the difference to the game experience.

It might still be the worst, but it's no reason not to go watch a good Rays team.

[SuburbanNation]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

if i had a magic wand, i would have saved busch stadium. it was generally agreed that busch was he best of the concrete donuts, and it had the most personality and individual character. the new busch is a nice stadium as well, but it would have been nice if the best example of the donuts had been saved for posterity.

Sadly I don't have sharp memories of how Busch II was at the end, and I wasn't living in St. Louis anymore...but as a child I remember it having a serious, almost cathedral like ambiance with lots of long dark shadows. I remember the booming sound of the place. There's good and bad about that, and it was a once and for all converted multi-use. I think it would have been around longer had it been built just for baseball.

I like Kauffman, I think the renovation is going to be great...I just wish wish wish it had been built near downtown KC.

[plinko]

^Kauffman is a great place to see a game, but the location is terrible.

I don't really count Tropicana as one of the post-Camden parks simply due to the fact that it was an adapted stadium.

My least favorite post-Camden park has to be Chase Field. Inside feels like the mall, terrible facade with random (but fake) homages to Wrigley, Fenway and others. And it hasn't aged well at all. Honestly it just isn't a great baseball experience when the roof is closed. Better when the roof is open though.

PNC, the Jake, Seattle and AT&T are all amazing parks. Houston and Arlington are kind of meh.
Fenway, Wrigley and old Yankee Stadium are cathedrals (as was the old Tiger Stadium).

I do have to say that the renovations in Anaheim certainly make it better for baseball, but that there are still some seats with really poor sightlines.

I don't mind Dodger Stadium, but have had some bad experiences there as a Giants fan + I particularly loathe the Dodgers, so i'm kind of biased.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Don't know the last time you visited Chase, Plinko, but they still play the same damn music from 1998 every time they open the roof.

[PhillyRising]

Citizens Bank Park is wonderful. I don't miss the concrete cat box that was Veterans Stadium at all. It was the Attica of sports venue.

I am worried about the NFL though. Jerry Jones set off the race for money generating stadiums when he starting putting corporate logos all over The Stadium With The Hole In The Roof in the early 90's. Now that he he has his new billon dollar Jerruhland set to open with more bells and whistles than everyone else....that NFL owners will then want to have what he has despite having brand new stadiums already.

[TexasBoi]

Originally Posted by plinko

^Kauffman is a great place to see a game, but the location is terrible.

I don't really count Tropicana as one of the post-Camden parks simply due to the fact that it was an adapted stadium.

My least favorite post-Camden park has to be Chase Field. Inside feels like the mall, terrible facade with random (but fake) homages to Wrigley, Fenway and others. And it hasn't aged well at all. Honestly it just isn't a great baseball experience when the roof is closed. Better when the roof is open though.

PNC, the Jake, Seattle and AT&T are all amazing parks. Houston and Arlington are kind of meh.
Fenway, Wrigley and old Yankee Stadium are cathedrals (as was the old Tiger Stadium).

I do have to say that the renovations in Anaheim certainly make it better for baseball, but that there are still some seats with really poor sightlines.

I don't mind Dodger Stadium, but have had some bad experiences there as a Giants fan + I particularly loathe the Dodgers, so i'm kind of biased.

I like the BP in Arlington but I just hate the location (meaning it's in the middle of suburbia) and I also hate that there is no roof. This is Texas. Nobody wants to sit in the sun at 3PM on a nice Summer afternoon watching baseball in Texas. It's 98 degrees and it's humid. No place experiences the type of Summer in MLB like the Rangers. I really wish the Rangers were either in Downtown Dallas or Downtown Fort Worth.

Once the build up Nationals Park (meaning the area around it), I think it has the potential to be a classic great ballpark.

[canadave]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

rogers centre - blue jays/argonauts(CFL): from what i know, i think the blue jays are relatively happy there. does anyone from toronto know if the team has been whining about getting a single-purpose baseball stadium for themselves?

The Jays seem to be pretty happy there, and Torontonians don't generally seem to have any problems with the stadium. Really, as far as multi-use stadiums go it's quite nice. Much better for baseball than football, but it's honestly a good place to watch a game in either case, especially with all the rennovations that Rogers has done since they bought it.

[dbull75]

I love Petco park... The integration of the old Metal Supply building is awesome. I also like how during the day, when there's no game, you walk down to the bleachers in the outfield and have lunch. AT&T Park is great except for it's the coldest game you'll ever see in July. PNC Park is a great one as well. I haven't been to Safeco yet, but hope to some day. I remember visiting Camden in maybe 1995 and was just blown away by it and thought how every team should have a similar stadium. Amazing how a lot of teams have followed suite.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Can't get photos right now, but in my opinion:

Best Pre-Camden:
1. Wrigley Field (Really a tossup between Wrigley or Fenway)

Worst Pre-Camden:
Oakland/Alameda County Coliseum (or whatever its called nowadays)

Best post-Camden:
1. PNC Park (despite its horrible tenant)

Worst post-Camden:
2. Tropicana Field

as others have mentioned, i would consider tropicana to be a pre-camden ballpark as it was built in 1990 two years prior to camden yards and was designed as a multi-use facility. it's true that the rays didn't start playing there until the late 90s, but the facility itself is of a decidedly pre-camden philosphy.



and now that the metrodome and landshark stadium are on their way out as baseball stadiums, it becomes clear that there will really be 3 main groups of stadiums left in MLB, with the 3rd group split into two sub-groups.

Group 1. the pre-war era, the classic early 20th century cathedrals of fenway and wrigley. they must be considered in a category by themselves given the fact that they are the lone surviving relics of a time long since past. i guess you could race one against the other if you really wanted to, but that kinda seems like racing the acropolis against the giza pyramids, what's the point? they're both fantastic treasures and our civilization is blessed to still have them around.

Group 2. the post-war era, of which only 4 survive. the best from this group are dodger stadium and kauffman stadium, both now considered classics. angel stadium has been vastly improved with its renovations in the 90s. only oakland's coliseum seems to be woefully out of date as a ballpark from this group, thanks in no small part to the awful renovations made when the NFL's raiders moved back in.

Group 3a. the modern era, starting with the multi-use rogers centre in toronto in 1989 and followed up with the multi-use tropicana filed in 1990 (though baseball would not be played there for many years). these two together, because of their outdated multi-use philosphy, form their own sub group within the modern era. rogers centre is mostly a success while tropicana is mostly a failure.

Group 3b. then the philosophy changed and the modern era became more formalized in 1991 with US cellular field, the first baseball-only stadium built in nearly 20 years, though without the historicist retro detailing that would be incorporated into 1992's camden yards to complete the total package of the retro ballpark craze that would sweep through the league. since US cellular field was completed in 1991, every other MLB ballpark that's been built has been a baseball-only facility. US cellular field changed the philosophy and then camden yards wrapped it in the more attractive throwback package (that has since been retroactively applied to US cellular with renovations). picking a best or worst from this group is more difficult because the bulk of the league's stadiums now lie (or soon will) within this group, though camden yards in baltimore, PNC in pittsburgh, and AT&T in san francisco seem to get the most consistent praise from what i've heard and read.

just my 2 cents.

[SouthByMidwest]

One of the concrete donuts is still standing, but it has a roof over it (the Astrodome).

Once they took out that big scoreboard in center field, if you took off the cover there was little separating the Dome from any of the others. Somehow I miss it though...

Also, Tropicana Field was actually opened in 1990 and predated Camden, but did not actually host MLB baseball until 1998. One might recall around the time Camden opened that the Giants were considering leaving San Francisco for Tampa Bay.

[MolsonExport]

Perhaps the era of spending public monies on billion-dollar playgrounds for millionaire athletes and billionnaire team owners is on the wane.