Winnipeg | True North Square | 86.9M | 77.8M | 25F | 17F | 22F | 17F | 19F | U/C

[Urban recluse]

Totally. Each applicant should be evaluated on what the project will do for the downtown, and design, etc.

[bomberjet]

I'll agree that $15-$20 million is a large sum of money to be giving over to a developer. That's about 5% of the $400 million budget and will go towards the skywalks and the plaza area amenities. That being said I really have no problem with it, if it falls under legal programs.

Again, this isn't a 'only in Winnipeg' thing. This happens everywhere. I'll also agree that this shouldn't be an either or thing. If you took 5% of a smaller development, let's say $20 million to reno and re-develop a heritage building, that's about $1 million. And if it's the City policy to preserve and encourage development of heritage buildings, than that's what it takes. Is $1 million even enough though?

The Cities policy on the SHED and TIF's was put in place. It was accepted by the City as policy. So that's what it is. If people have a problem with that, call your local councilor, the newspapers, start a group. There's things you can do to make your opinion known. And if enough people did it, you reach that critical mass.

[Biff]

Same as always - bump to keep the updating photo on the current page...

[bomberjet]

I appreciate your efforts Biff! Lots of talk these days eating up pages in the forum.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Based on the increased cost of redeveloping heritage buildings, developers who undertake this definitely need funding. Do you know why they were turned down?

Forgive the refrain, but we still need the funding, yes? I have to assume if there is a profit to be made, we would still see those projects which were denied proceed? Is the gap really so big still (in terms of new buildings)? Surely the developers would not walk away just because they cannot get a handout, aware that the desire to see new developments built downtown is so great that they are playing hardball in a way?

the projects were rejected because the program ran out of money....they were all recommended to receive funding. A large portion of the program was taken up by one development.

The gap for residential is essentially the value of the TIF...without it there is no profit to be made in downtown...they are not playing hardball...its just a fact.

I am not sure the skywalks were a make or break element of true north, but it comes from a different TIf...the SHED.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'll agree that $15-$20 million is a large sum of money to be giving over to a developer. That's about 5% of the $400 million budget and will go towards the skywalks and the plaza area amenities. That being said I really have no problem with it, if it falls under legal programs.

Again, this isn't a 'only in Winnipeg' thing. This happens everywhere. I'll also agree that this shouldn't be an either or thing. If you took 5% of a smaller development, let's say $20 million to reno and re-develop a heritage building, that's about $1 million. And if it's the City policy to preserve and encourage development of heritage buildings, than that's what it takes. Is $1 million even enough though?

The Cities policy on the SHED and TIF's was put in place. It was accepted by the City as policy. So that's what it is. If people have a problem with that, call your local councilor, the newspapers, start a group. There's things you can do to make your opinion known. And if enough people did it, you reach that critical mass.

I agree...that is why I am not opposed to a true north TIF...I am just saying these huge payouts for megaprojects may have an effect on the perception of TIF as a tool...which may affect its implementation down the road.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Why does it have to be either/or, though? I'm not detecting much of a backlash over the TNS TIF grant. A few eyebrows were raised when it was announced, but it's not like that particular project will be the undoing of TIF... TIF can still be around to help the smaller developers.

It definitely feels as though there is hesitance to use TIF as a tool from the current provincial government....headlines like these do not help reverse that feeling....I hope I'm wrong.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

But why have these been turned down? Just to allocate money to TNS and 300M?

Or are the proposals not up to the standard sought by the city?

all were approved...program ran out of money.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

there is most definitely opposition to TIF as a tool from the current provincial government....headlines like these do not help reverse that feeling.

Somehow I doubt that the provincial government's issue is the same as yours, i.e. that dollar-for-dollar, the effect on urban rejuvenation by 10 small projects @ $500,000 in TIF a pop is likely greater than 1 big project @ $5,000,000. So what is their beef? Is it just the particular recipients of the the TNS TIF?

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by trueviking

the projects were rejected because the program ran out of money....they were all recommended to receive funding. A large portion of the program was taken up by one development.

The gap for residential is essentially the value of the TIF...without it there is no profit to be made in downtown...they are not playing hardball...its just a fact.

I am not sure the skywalks were a make or break element of true north, but it comes from a different TIf...the SHED.

Well, Mayor Bowman needs to get his head out of his ass. He wants to limit the TIF program. Fine; nothing much gets built then.

[Wolf13]

I think the skywalks are a must.

I just don't think they needed that much money for the skywalk and plaze... it's definitely being re-routed to other aspects of construction that are harder to publicly fund.

Originally Posted by robertocarlos

Artis is still working on how high to build 300 Main. Looks like TNS wins.

Really? 40 storeys residential plus 1-2 additional for elevator lobby and mechanical, no?

Regardless, how would this affect anything? Height may mean something to us internerds, but not to them.

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Well, Mayor Bowman needs to get his head out of his ass. He wants to limit the TIF program. Fine; nothing much gets built then.

Bowman needs to go.

[Urban recluse]

I think Roberto was kidding...

There are cities in the US which have had TIF in place for 30 years, and Winnipeg has seen only a few projects benefit from it in the short time it has been used. There is no way we are going to see dramtic change downtown without it. There are simply too many dead zones in need of revitalization.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I agree...that is why I am not opposed to a true north TIF...I am just saying these huge payouts for megaprojects has an effect on the perception of TIF as a tool...which will affect its implementation down the road.

Yup, agree with that. Joe public sees on the news TNSE is getting another $20 million. Now Joe is on a war path for all TIF's.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by buzzg

The main issue with AC Park is that it's actually fairly sheltered from the street, so it's easy to "hide out" – it's also very run down and in bad shape.

APTN security is pretty hesitant to clear out those that linger in the park.

AC security only shoos the ones drinking in the planters on the north side of the building and those who venture too close to the front doors.

In the summer months the police are always around the park during the day which tends to naturally clear out the place.

[Urban recluse]

And we do not want to hurt people's feelings, rather embrace them. F*ck that!

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Well, Mayor Bowman needs to get his head out of his ass. He wants to limit the TIF program. Fine; nothing much gets built then.

I thought it was the province that was the problem in terms of TIF moving forward.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Yup, agree with that. Joe public sees on the news TNSE is getting another $20 million. Now Joe is on a war path for all TIF's.

I don't know that the public is super-opposed to TIFs for this type of project though. I know the province is.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Ando

I thought it was the province that was the problem in terms of TIF moving forward.

The Mayor was whining "we can't TIF everything", which I agree with, but I think TIF should be used for downtown only (and other blighted areas), and nowhere else. Perhaps that was what he meant; he wasn't clear.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

I think the skywalks are a must.

why in the world would skywalks be a must for a 17 storey office building?

[Urban recluse]

Because we are creating a society full of wimps who do not want to venture outside.