High-Speed Intercity Passenger Rail Program (USA)

[JonathanGRR]

Tracks between Kalamazoo and Detroit are also being upgraded for future 110 mph service on what is now (I believe) a State of Michigan/Amtrak-owned line, purchased from Norfolk Southern.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jonathan.jam

Tracks between Kalamazoo and Detroit are also being upgraded for future 110 mph service on what is now (I believe) a State of Michigan/Amtrak-owned line, purchased from Norfolk Southern.

I wasn't aware construction had started in Michigan or that it was fully funded.

[scalziand]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

So refresh my memory... What's the most significant intercity passenger rail project that's actually being constructed right now in the uS?

The Knowledge Corridor between New Haven, CT and Springfield, MA is being upgraded to 110 mph track.

Not the most significant, but add it to the list.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

So refresh my memory... What's the most significant intercity passenger rail project that's actually being constructed right now in the uS?

Still not a whole lot of major construction started, which is a side effect of how thinly the Obama administration spread their $8 billion in grant money.

As was already mentioned, the St Louis-Chicago project is the biggest project currently underway.

The first segment of the California line is about to start construction in 2-3 months... it's already gone to bid. This is financially a slightly smaller project than the Illinois project, but since it is a whole new high-speed line from the ground up, it will be more significant.

The Chicago-Detroit line has quite a bit of construction, but it's broken up into 10-15 separate small projects, each of which is moving on its own timeline and funding. Englewood Flyover, Indiana Gateway, Portage Junction, West Detroit Connection, etc and several station upgrades/replacements. The Northeast Corridor has a similar group of small improvements that collectively amount to a lot.

[hammersklavier]

An incremental approach--many small projects that, collectively, add up to major improvements--is IMO better than a single, all-or-nothing project. While the latter may be more "efficient" in the absolute sense, the former offers discrete improvements for every discrete project. This means that, among other things, a sense of Things Happening happens faster.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by scalziand

The Knowledge Corridor between New Haven, CT and Springfield, MA is being upgraded to 110 mph track.

Not the most significant, but add it to the list.

What i've found out is that they didn't have enough money in CT so they've decided not to Grade Separate or do the full upgrades which included 3-6 Infill stations in Connecticut... So were getting a watered down project that might not even be 110mph...more like 90mph. They aren't even replacing all the bad tracks..... Connecticut is a mess , they did fully a fund their Busway which everyone hated but not there Main North-South corridor...

[JonathanGRR]

Originally Posted by electricron

I wasn't aware construction had started in Michigan or that it was fully funded.

The FRA awarded Michigan $196.5 million to begin track upgrades, and work is starting with the section of track between Kalamazoo and Battle Creek.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

An incremental approach--many small projects that, collectively, add up to major improvements--is IMO better than a single, all-or-nothing project. While the latter may be more "efficient" in the absolute sense, the former offers discrete improvements for every discrete project. This means that, among other things, a sense of Things Happening happens faster.

I agree, but the media doesn't. (See Anderson Cooper.) Without positive PR, it will be difficult to generate the public demand for the megaprojects that really do need to move forward.

Also, there are some big investments in New York and Chicago that would benefit numerous Amtrak and commuter services, but they need to be done as singular megaprojects and can't really be addressed incrementally.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jonathan.jam

The FRA awarded Michigan $196.5 million to begin track upgrades, and work is starting with the section of track between Kalamazoo and Battle Creek.

Did Michigan fund their share too? Is the purpose of the upgrades between Kalamazoo and Battle Creek to raise max speeds to 110 mph, or maintain 79 mph to prevent downgrading the max speeds on these tracks to 60 mph? The piecemeal funding for this line makes it difficult to find the truth; one appropriation suggests one answer, another suggests a different answer.

[JonathanGRR]

Michigan chipped in some money to buy the rail line, but I don't know if MDOT is paying for improvements as well. The track is technically being upgraded by Amtrak instead of MDOT, so that may changed some things. As of right now, the goal is to raise top speeds on the corridor from Kalamazoo to Dearborn up to 110 mph, similar to what has been done from Porter to Kalamazoo.

[ardecila]

There's a difference between what's FRA-mandated for 110mph operation (namely, PTC and Class 6 track), the actual speed limit, determined by the curvature and condition of the track, and the average speed of a train, determined by all of the above plus scheduling factors.

The Michigan line is fairly curvy, comparable to the Shore Line through CT, so I don't know if it will ever get to consistent 110mph operation without some expensive curve easing and tilting trains.

I mean, we've got two tilting trains rotting in a Milwaukee warehouse, but I digress...

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by ardecila

There's a difference between what's FRA-mandated for 110mph operation (namely, PTC and Class 6 track), the actual speed limit, determined by the curvature and condition of the track, and the average speed of a train, determined by all of the above plus scheduling factors.

The Michigan line is fairly curvy, comparable to the Shore Line through CT, so I don't know if it will ever get to consistent 110mph operation without some expensive curve easing and tilting trains.

I mean, we've got two tilting trains rotting in a Milwaukee warehouse, but I digress...

You mean the Talgo sets? They went to Oregon and will enter service....

[ardecila]

No. Oregon ordered two of their own Talgo trainsets. The pair built for Wisconsin are still in Milwaukee.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by ardecila

No. Oregon ordered two of their own Talgo trainsets. The pair built for Wisconsin are still in Milwaukee.

Oh , so they built 4 sets?

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I agree, but the media doesn't. (See Anderson Cooper.) Without positive PR, it will be difficult to generate the public demand for the megaprojects that really do need to move forward.

Also, there are some big investments in New York and Chicago that would benefit numerous Amtrak and commuter services, but they need to be done as singular megaprojects and can't really be addressed incrementally.

The media as a whole are attracted like flies to megaprojects. "Liberal" media likes them because they echo the Interstates' initial buildout; the "conservative" media likes them because they're inherently more fragile coalitions and riskier projects, and their failure makes for an "I told you so" moment.

You're right about the PR, though. Imagine if Anderson Cooper had spent his time talking about the dime-a-dozen humongously-wasteful small road projects instead of manufacturing criticism for a fairly successful small rail project in Vermont. The media are what they are; you've just got to point them in the right direction.

[Markitect]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Oh , so they built 4 sets?

Yes, two for Wisconsin and two for Oregon.

Wisconsin's pair are sitting at the now-shuttered Talgo assembly plant in Milwaukee. Our governor's administration and his fellow Republican politicians have refused to spend the money necessary to even have the trainsets tested, or to construct the maintenance facility that would have been needed to keep them in service, and possibly even to have paid Talgo for it's work building them. It's all very messed up, hence Talgo suing the State right now.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by Markitect

Yes, two for Wisconsin and two for Oregon.

Wisconsin's pair are sitting at the now-shuttered Talgo assembly plant in Milwaukee. Our governor's administration and his fellow Republican politicians have refused to spend the money necessary to even have the trainsets tested, or to construct the maintenance facility that would have been needed to keep them in service, and possibly even to have paid Talgo for it's work building them. It's all very messed up right now, hence Talgo is suing the State right now.

Can't Oregon or Washington buy them?

[Markitect]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Can't Oregon or Washington buy them?

No, because the trainsets are stuck in a legal limbo right now due to the court case. Talgo claims it owns the trainsets because Wisconsin broke its contract with the company. Meanwhile the State claims it owns the trainsets. There may or may not be some money owed to the company.

[afiggatt]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Can't Oregon or Washington buy them?

Besides the legal situation/mess between Talgo and Wisconsin, Washington state can't put new trains to use until 2017 when the track capacity upgrade projects are completed. The 2 Oregon trains will go underused the next few years as it is. Washington State DOT has long term plans to buy more Talgo trainsets, but the smart move is probably to wait until the legal fight is resolved and then offer to buy the 2 WI Talgos for so many cents on the dollar.

[afiggatt]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

What i've found out is that they didn't have enough money in CT so they've decided not to Grade Separate or do the full upgrades which included 3-6 Infill stations in Connecticut... So were getting a watered down project that might not even be 110mph...more like 90mph. They aren't even replacing all the bad tracks..... Connecticut is a mess , they did fully a fund their Busway which everyone hated but not there Main North-South corridor...

CT did not downgrade the New Haven to Springfield project. They are building it as far as the current federal and state funding will allow through Phase 3A. The track signals will be upgraded to Springfield, but the double track and station upgrades north of Windsor to Springfield, Phase 3B, are waiting on additional funding. CT may be looking for MA to pick up some of the tab for track upgrades from the CT border to Springfield. Completion of Phase 3B would be a fully double tracked corridor with curve realignment and grade crossing upgrades.

Phase 4 is the four new stations strictly for commuter service, not Amtrak, and they can always be built later. Phase 5 is the repair/refurb of the Hartford Viaduct and CT River Bridge are big ticket projects that can be postponed. CT can start corridor service over the New Haven to Hartford to Windsor segment if they have to.

Would not be surprised if CT were to submit a TIGER FY2013 application to try to land some or most of the funding for Phase 3B.

The plan was never to fully grade separate the line as it has a lot of grade crossings. They are reducing the number of grade crossings by closing some public and private crossings. About 1/3rd of them as I recall from the FEIS.