Would you say anti-Americanism is dying down?

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Ford didn't inherit a button.

Lol No. Not even close with their campaigns.

Exactly. Big difference between a local politician and the president of the US. Not even comparable. The mayor has one vote on council (making an assumption here) vs Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful military in the world who is also granted extraordinary executive powers.

[hipster duck]

I think both Americans and Canadians are more informed about each other's country than ever before.

Now, on the US side, we're admittedly talking about moving from a position where a tiny fraction of the population had something other than zero knowledge about Canada, but major American news outlets now even have correspondents writing about Canadian issues on a somewhat regular basis. Many Americans look toward Canada with a certain envy, even if some of that envy is misplaced (knowing a few liberal Americans who actually moved to Canada, rather than just saying that they would, I've noticed that most considered their move to be somewhat bittersweet and express some homesickness for the US).

I also think that the knowledge Canadians have of the US has deepened in the past 10 years, so reflexive anti-Americanism has simmered down.

[O-tacular]

It’s hard to hate the U.S. as you watch it slowly cannibalise itself. Pity and sadness are more the norm now.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Viewed from the outside, as I haven't been back for any prolonged period in quite a while, it seems like English Canadians are essentially absorbing themselves into the 'blue city' tribe of Americans, so what was once tinged with cross-border angst and self-definition is now more colored by the intramural political and social rivalries engaged in by this US tribe.

My parents are a great example of this. They are obsessed with US politics. I think this may be quite common with older immigrants. The younger generations tend to be proud Canadians that are generally a bit critical of the US politically and socially.

Originally Posted by kool maudit

How are we meaningfully separate from these people, anyway? Health care? They want that too. The British Empire? Long dead. Multiculturalism? Los Angeles has plenty.

Things like guns, race, idolizing billionaires/CEOs/the President, bro culture, "hero"/Army culture come to mind.

Originally Posted by kool maudit

There is a reason Canadians like Samantha Bee kind of slot right in. Frenchmen can't do that in Germany. Italians can't in Russia.

Samantha Bee is an entertainer and I'm sure she had to figure out what works for an American audience and what doesn't. John Oliver as well.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Sarah89

I literally NEVER hear anything negative about Americans anymore. Yeah there's the supposed anti-Trump talk but I really don't see or hear much of this either in the real world.

There was a time when we seemed a little insecure about ourselves and the U.S but now I don't see this anymore. The opinion is more balanced. What do you think?

No.

Did you ask that question seriously?

[SignalHillHiker]

koolmaudit needs to write a book. Seriously. I love your explanations of things. It's always new to me, deeper and more insightful than I go on my own, and I believe you.

****

We've had George W. Bush, so we're used to America's politics sucking. And we've had Stephen Harper, so our "holier than thou" schitck is clearly bullshit. So, yes, I think outward anti-Americanism has weakened somewhat. At least the petty, juvenile kind. I also think we're consciously and purposefully more opposed to following in America's footsteps than ever before. We're kind of eyeing Lithuania and Estonia and Latvia and "getting" them more than in the past.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by shappy

Things like guns, race, idolizing billionaires/CEOs/the President, bro culture, "hero"/Army culture come to mind.

Canada has these people, too. They're not as prevalent but they're out there. If we're going to stereotype the standard American we can try to stereotype the standard Canadian, too, and they're not really as different as people think. Millions of completely reasonable Americans live completely normal lives no different from normal Canadians.

[saffronleaf]

I think anti-Americanism remains Canada's national pastime. A lot of the more recent growth in Canadian nationalism in English Canada is constructed or interpreted as a foil to Canadian caricatures of the US and Americans. Even when attitudes are reinterpreted as pity or indifference, those attitudes themselves appear to be steeped in or a guise for anti-Americanism.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Canada has these people, too. They're not as prevalent but they're out there. If we're going to stereotype the standard American we can try to stereotype the standard Canadian, too, and they're not really as different as people think. Millions of completely reasonable Americans live completely normal lives no different from normal Canadians.

I'm speaking generally as a society not trying to stereotype the typcial American. Not saying Canada is without problems (obviously) but these differences exist, they can be observed and pointed out - there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't have to be at the expense of a thinly veiled "holier than thou" schtick. Pretty much the entire world joins in, have you noticed?

This could not be "This is Canada":

• Video Link

[1overcosc]

I've heard it described that Canada is basically America with a political centrepoint further to the left.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Viewed from the outside, as I haven't been back for any prolonged period in quite a while, it seems like English Canadians are essentially absorbing themselves into the 'blue city' tribe of Americans, so what was once tinged with cross-border angst and self-definition is now more colored by the intramural political and social rivalries engaged in by this US tribe.

How are we meaningfully separate from these people, anyway? Health care? They want that too. The British Empire? Long dead. Multiculturalism? Los Angeles has plenty.

I was in Toronto in November, Southern California in April. Most of the casual conversations were about the same television shows and US political narratives. Sometimes the Canadians shared their takes on 'our version of [insert US phenomenon]', i.e. Doug Ford.

There is a reason Canadians like Samantha Bee kind of slot right in. Frenchmen can't do that in Germany. Italians can't in Russia.

But, Hitler was Austrian, correct? He did it, and rather successfully, wouldn't you say?

No, anybody cannot necessarily do it, but plenty of British have slotted into American society rather well.

Also, we have that North American New World melting pot thing going on over here, which we share with the US, and which you do not have in Europe; and that makes many people fit in better in the US than would otherwise.

Our nations share some values, they are both peas from the same pod, but have also developed distinctive ideological differences on the political spectrum, which may well become greater as time goes on.

[kool maudit]

The fact of the differences being ideological lubricates Canadians' move into the 'blue city' tribe, whose beefs with the opposing 'red rural' tribe are ideological as well.

A lot of the factors I see being mentioned are of the 'at least we're not...' type -- negatively phrased.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

The fact of the differences being ideological lubricates Canadians' move into the 'blue city' tribe, whose beefs with the opposing 'red rural' tribe are ideological as well.

A lot of the factors I see being mentioned are of the 'at least we're not...' type -- negatively phrased.

Yes, a lot of the typically American (bad) stuff raised on here by Canadians is repulsive to "blue city Americans" who don't identify with it either.

It would be instructive to do a comparison of "blue city Americans" and their Canadian semblables to see what the true differences are.

It might be a tricky exercise though I personally do believe there are some.

For example, I remember how Barack Obama used to talk about the virtues of free enterprise and even capitalism in his speeches and in other instances. It would be quite rare for a Canadian politician to do that as spontaneously and naturally as he would do it.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Architype

Our nations share some values, they are both peas from the same pod, but have also developed distinctive ideological differences on the political spectrum, which may well become greater as time goes on.

I wish our lives were longer so we'd actually get to see how these sorts of things play out. Popular culture is certainly bringing all the world closer together, especially anglophones.

But the differences can still be so stark...

This little girl, for example, probably doesn't exist in Canada.



As she grows up, the choices she makes, the beliefs she holds... is that going to cause her to diverge further from the little girls at St. Bonaventure's in St. John's than Ariana Grande can bring them together?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I wish our lives were longer so we'd actually get to see how these sorts of things play out. Popular culture is certainly bringing all the world closer together, especially anglophones.

But the differences can still be so stark...

This little girl, for example, probably doesn't exist in Canada.



As she grows up, the choices she makes, the beliefs she holds... is that going to cause her to diverge further from the little girls at St. Bonaventure's in St. John's than Ariana Grande can bring them together?

I dunno. A lot of Canadians - especially young ones - seem to conflate goings-on in the U.S. with the situation here at home. And always have - even back when I was young.

I mean... St. John's has a Black Lives Matter movement, does it not?

My kids have had always had lockdown codes in place and regular drills every year since they've been in elementary school.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, a lot of the typically American (bad) stuff raised on here by Canadians is repulsive to "blue city Americans" who don't identify with it either.

It would be instructive to do a comparison of "blue city Americans" and their Canadian semblables to see what the true differences are.

It might be a tricky exercise though I personally do believe there are some.

For example, I remember how Barack Obama used to talk about the virtues of free enterprise and even capitalism in his speeches and in other instances. It would be quite rare for a Canadian politician to do that as spontaneously and naturally as he would do it.

I am playing devil's advocate a bit because there are subtle differences, they are just hard to put a finger on. Because in many ways Canada sort of FEELS more like a Northern European country than does the US... its norms match up more with Denmark or Sweden than with even those of Los Angeles.

But Canada has a history and a reason it was created that has nothing to do with social democracy or progressive politics of the post-60s type. If Sweden went hard right, it would still be Sweden -- it would just be in a new phase.

What are we that we have always been?

[Architype]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

The fact of the differences being ideological lubricates Canadians' move into the 'blue city' tribe, whose beefs with the opposing 'red rural' tribe are ideological as well.

A lot of the factors I see being mentioned are of the 'at least we're not...' type -- negatively phrased.

Wouldn't most of the world belong to the "blue tribe", including most from the country in which you now reside? Belonging to the "blue tribe" seems perfectly normal considering the alternative. Our differences aren't just ideological though, they are also statistical, geographical, historical, etc., but then so are our similarities.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

The fact of the differences being ideological lubricates Canadians' move into the 'blue city' tribe, whose beefs with the opposing 'red rural' tribe are ideological as well.

I don't think these differences are actually ideological. They are lived realities that help define a society.

Originally Posted by kool maudit

A lot of the factors I see being mentioned are of the 'at least we're not...' type -- negatively phrased.

There is a difference between "at least we're not..." and stating observations. It's probably easier for Sweden to define how they differ from the US in that way as well.

Originally Posted by kool maudit

If Sweden went hard right, it would still be Sweden -- it would just be in a new phase.

What are we that we have always been?

If the US were to suddenly fall off the face of the earth, would Canada have an existential crisis? My sense is that we would not. The hum of Canada would be the same. If Quebec or Ontario were to fall off the face of the earth would Canada have an existential crisis? Probably.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by shappy

I'm speaking generally as a society not trying to stereotype the typcial American. Not saying Canada is without problems (obviously) but these differences exist, they can be observed and pointed out - there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't have to be at the expense of a thinly veiled "holier than thou" schtick. Pretty much the entire world joins in, have you noticed?

This could not be "This is Canada":

• Video Link

The two biggest differences between Canada and the U.S. highlighted in that video: the legacy of slavery and gun culture.

[isaidso]

Before it was criticism of the US for military aggression internationally and for being arrogant in their dealings with the rest of the world. Today, that's largely turned to sympathy for the train wreck of a country they're living in. I don't know how they're ever going to right their ship. So many problems.