Sandy Hill Truck Tunnel

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wouldn't say it was "stopped" by the Montfort. BTW, those arguments are absurd. As if ambulances dont have to deal with traffic elsewhere in Ottawa and in all cities around the world.

Especially considering the ambulances could use the bus lanes that were planned. Those shouldn't be congested.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

Another tunnel through the core just makes absolutely no sense to me.

I have always thought that an east end bridge made the most logistical sense and there is a location that would work perfectly. At Shefford Rd and Montréal Rd there is already an exit from the 417. This could just be upgraded for the increased traffic.

The small commercial park in that niche off Shefford would need to make some sacrifices, but that to me seems negligable. The other issue would be that a bridge in this location would cross over a portion of the Aviation Parkway, which the NCC might again take issue with - unfortunately.

On the Québec side this bridge would run smack dab between a sewage treatment plant and a Lafarge pit in Templeton meeting up perfectly with the #148 and #366. The land between the two on satellite looks to be undeveloped forest land.

I haven't been following closely all the proposals, but I am pretty sure I have yet to hear the Shefford Rd. location proposed and it makes me wonder why. It has so many benefits as per moving not only commercial vehicles from the core, but also as a cross-river traffic link for the fast-growing east section of Ottawa (Orléans). There is a strong link between the francophone population of Orléans and the Gatineau side and also many government employees who live in Orleans work in Gatineau.

Instead of adding to the congestion on the core arteries in Ottawa that lead to the downtown bridges, this would re-route east commuter traffic to the much more efficient #148 in Gatineau as well as all the trucks.

By the way, the proposed interprovincial bridge at Kettle Island was stopped by Montfort Hospital.

So it that corridor 6 or corridor 7 in this map in the attachment?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...t-end-1.936190

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

There is a strong link between the francophone population of Orléans and the Gatineau side and also many government employees who live in Orleans work in Gatineau.

Instead of adding to the congestion on the core arteries in Ottawa that lead to the downtown bridges, this would re-route east commuter traffic to the much more efficient #148 in Gatineau as well as all the trucks.

Not sure I'd call the 148 a(n more) efficient rush hour route.

On an everyday basis there wouldn't be much of an advantage for people from Orleans-Cumberland-Rockland taking that route (or even scooting a bit north to the A-50) to get to central Hull, which I assume would be the location for the vast majority of "Gatineau" jobs these people have.

The bridge might be useful for east end Ottawans going to jobs in Gatineau (Gatineau) east of the Gatineau River, but few Ontario residents work in this area of the city, with the possible exception of the Library and Archives Canada buildings.

[lrt's friend]

Kettle Island was always the best choice on the Ontario side. It connected directly into the Aviation Parkway, and to Highway 417 going east. It is also adjacent to the east end employment and industrial areas. What it is missing is a west bound connection to the Queensway. Is there any way to rectify that? I know this would impact the Confederation Line.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Kettle Island was always the best choice on the Ontario side. It connected directly into the Aviation Parkway, and to Highway 417 going east. It is also adjacent to the east end employment and industrial areas. What it is missing is a west bound connection to the Queensway. Is there any way to rectify that? I know this would impact the Confederation Line.

I don't see the westbound ramp as a deal-breaker as that wouldn't be in the top traffic directions coming from the bridge, but it would be nice to have for sure. Where there is a will there is a way - they could build an overpass for road traffic over the LRT line, and that would "land" just north of the 417 where traffic could merge going westbound.

In all honesty they could build a bridge without that, see how it goes and keep the WB link to the 417 as a phase 2 based on traffic volumes.

[TheseBoots]

@Acajack,

Yeah, by another tunnel, I was referring to the LRT. I agree that the Montfort Hospital argument about emergency transit being effected doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

So it that corridor 6 or corridor 7 in this map in the attachment?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...t-end-1.936190

Where I am proposing is in the lower right hand corner of corridor 6 in that attachment. It runs through Canoteck Business park on the Ottawa side.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We can never get every truck out of downtown. Just like we can't get rid of every bus, despite our efforts to do so.

Just set a sufficient toll for crossing the bridges into downtown to redirect the majority of traffic where we want it to go. Give free toll permits to those trucks who need access to downtown businesses.

The amount of heavy truck traffic whose destination is the core is pretty negligible (McDonald's, the mint and NAC are the only regular destinations I can think of off hand). To me the easiest solution would be to ban large trucks from the other bridges.

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure I'd call the 148 a(n more) efficient rush hour route.

Why not? As it is right now, most of those driving from Orleans to Gatineau end up bottle-jammed on Vanier Parkway, King Edward, Nicholas and Bronson heading over the core bridges.

On an everyday basis there wouldn't be much of an advantage for people from Orleans-Cumberland-Rockland taking that route (or even scooting a bit north to the A-50) to get to central Hull, which I assume would be the location for the vast majority of "Gatineau" jobs these people have.

The advantage would be in not having to go through downtown Ottawa streets to the other bridges, and getting stuck in a log-jam. To me, this not only makes more sense for reducing core street congestion, but also would cut travel time down.

Edit to add: I know on the surface this is may sound like "far down the list" of reasons to build a bridge, but a lot of long-time Orleans residents have cottages the Gatineaus as well go there for recreation like skiing.

Getting up there entails either a drive out to the Cumberland ferry or through the centre of Ottawa, the latter of which is ridiculous, when an east end bridge could take you right across to Gatineau and by-pass having to go through the capital core.

The 30 that was built down by Montréal is an excellent example of a road taking people from one outlying area to another who are destined not for the city but for cottages, recreation or to visit family in the townships - just something else to consider, besides trucks.

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Especially considering the ambulances could use the bus lanes that were planned. Those shouldn't be congested.

Right. I'm thinking there is more to it than the stated objections. Montfort had a large expensive renovation, but is still a terribly administered hospital.

For those of us who live in the east end of Ottawa (I moved here from SW Ontario in 1991) it became quickly known that if you are not uni-lingual French and require a hospital visit for tests or ambulance, "Choose the General!" on Smythe Rd. It might take a few minutes longer, but you'll be happy you made that decision.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

Why not? As it is right now, most of those driving from Orleans to Gatineau end up bottle-jammed on Vanier Parkway, King Edward, Nicholas and Bronson heading over the core bridges.



The advantage would be in not having to go through downtown Ottawa streets to the other bridges, and getting stuck in a log-jam. To me, this not only makes more sense for reducing core street congestion, but also would cut travel time down.

Edit to add: I know on the surface this is may sound like "far down the list" of reasons to build a bridge, but a lot of long-time Orleans residents have cottages the Gatineaus as well go there for recreation like skiing.

Getting up there entails either a drive out to the Cumberland ferry or through the centre of Ottawa, the latter of which is ridiculous, when an east end bridge could take you right across to Gatineau and by-pass having to go through the capital core.

The 30 that was built down by Montréal is an excellent example of a road taking people from one outlying area to another who are destined not for the city but for cottages, recreation or to visit family in the townships - just something else to consider, besides trucks.

A-30 seems more like a bypass highway for the city of Montreal than a suburban-rural destination route. It connects to the 40/417 and 20/401, and would allow traffic destined for anywhere east of Montreal to skip delays there.

Building a bridge so that people can get to their recreation activities faster doesn't seem like a great reason to build one. Not saying a bridge is a bad idea, but that reasoning doesn't seem all that realistic.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't see the westbound ramp as a deal-breaker as that wouldn't be in the top traffic directions coming from the bridge, but it would be nice to have for sure. Where there is a will there is a way - they could build an overpass for road traffic over the LRT line, and that would "land" just north of the 417 where traffic could merge going westbound.

Where do you think the majority of the truck traffic to/from Gatineau is headed? If headed to/from Montreal and east, the A50 should be the proffered option. Do you think there is a lot of truck traffic between Gatineau and Orleans?

Originally Posted by acottawa

The amount of heavy truck traffic whose destination is the core is pretty negligible (McDonald's, the mint and NAC are the only regular destinations I can think of off hand). To me the easiest solution would be to ban large trucks from the other bridges.

And how many of those trucks are going to/from Gatieneau?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

Right. I'm thinking there is more to it than the stated objections. Montfort had a large expensive renovation, but is still a terribly administered hospital.

For those of us who live in the east end of Ottawa (I moved here from SW Ontario in 1991) it became quickly known that if you are not uni-lingual French and require a hospital visit for tests or ambulance, "Choose the General!" on Smythe Rd. It might take a few minutes longer, but you'll be happy you made that decision.

People I know (anglos) who have used Monfort for surgery or emergency treatment have been very happy.

But I digress ...

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by silvergate

A-30 seems more like a bypass highway for the city of Montreal than a suburban-rural destination route.

It's both.

It connects to the 40/417 and 20/401, and would allow traffic destined for anywhere east of Montreal to skip delays there.

Right.

Building a bridge so that people can get to their recreation activities faster doesn't seem like a great reason to build one. Not saying a bridge is a bad idea, but that reasoning doesn't seem all that realistic.

That's why I qualified my example. With forethought and vision for their complex purposes, transportation systems are not built on only a single reason. Despite this, I find that much of the discussion/debate as per the interprovincial bridges in the Ottawa-Gatineau district does end up having a tunnel focus on trucks and commuting back and forth to work. This is ignoring many others reasons that transportation routes are used for.

The beauty of the 30 is that yes, it's a bypass for not going through Montréal. So, then the question is - Who wants to bypass Montréal and where are they destined and connecting to? A simple is answer is not anywhere in Montréal, so why drive through that mess?

Going past Montréal has other reasons which are also important to take into account for how transport systems are used and these bring commerce as well as connect areas historically, such as Québec townships and Vermont to eastern Ontario. To get from from one to the other Montréal is a pain.

If you want to get from point A to point D and have a choice to not get stuck in the mess of B&C wouldn't you take it? Personally, I detest driving through the TO 401 stretch or Montréal, if I can help it. For destinations past Toronto, I take the 7 and pay for the 407 when I have to go to SW Ontario.

The same principle applies for anywhere east of Capital hill to get to Gatineau, when there are already perfectly good highways just across to river to get me there without getting stuck behind the capital tour bus route.

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

People I know (anglos) who have used Monfort for surgery or emergency treatment have been very happy.

But I digress ...

I'm glad to hear that. I digressed as well.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure I'd call the 148 a(n more) efficient rush hour route.

On an everyday basis there wouldn't be much of an advantage for people from Orleans-Cumberland-Rockland taking that route (or even scooting a bit north to the A-50) to get to central Hull, which I assume would be the location for the vast majority of "Gatineau" jobs these people have.

The bridge might be useful for east end Ottawans going to jobs in Gatineau (Gatineau) east of the Gatineau River, but few Ontario residents work in this area of the city, with the possible exception of the Library and Archives Canada buildings.

There is lots of excess capacity for the Ottawa to Gatineau commute. For east end residents the Rockcliffe Parkway to the McDonald Cartier is usually an easy route. Once you are on the bridge there might be a bit of congestion getting off the highway as you mix with Gatineau commuters but otherwise pretty quick. Certainly faster than joining the 50 which inches along for miles.

For commuters in the other direction it could be a good route to Montfort, La Cite and some other businesses in the east end. The route would also probably work for RCMP and DFAIT which I would guess both have a lot of Gatineau residents though this would probably tip the parkway over into a constant gridlock situation.

All this should help everyone commuting to Ottawa as it would take some of those cars off the central bridges. I see no benefit for almost anyone in Ottawa and it could even add to the commute of those commuting from Orleans to downtown Ottawa.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

All this should help everyone commuting to Ottawa as it would take some of those cars off the central bridges. I see no benefit for almost anyone in Ottawa and it could even add to the commute of those commuting from Orleans to downtown Ottawa.

The principal advantage for Ottawa is it gets the Kathleen Wynne Interprovincial Truckway off of downtown streets, which is good for safety, tourism, the economy, etc. The second advantage is it gets a lot of the through traffic out of the core, which helps commuters from all over the city. The third advantage (assuming there is some sort of transit component) is balancing out the transit load of the city by moving some passengers to east side.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The principal advantage for Ottawa is it gets the Kathleen Wynne Interprovincial Truckway off of downtown streets, which is good for safety, tourism, the economy, etc. The second advantage is it gets a lot of the through traffic out of the core, which helps commuters from all over the city. The third advantage (assuming there is some sort of transit component) is balancing out the transit load of the city by moving some passengers to east side.

Exactamundo.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

Why not? As it is right now, most of those driving from Orleans to Gatineau end up bottle-jammed on Vanier Parkway, King Edward, Nicholas and Bronson heading over the core bridges.



The advantage would be in not having to go through downtown Ottawa streets to the other bridges, and getting stuck in a log-jam. To me, this not only makes more sense for reducing core street congestion, but also would cut travel time down.

.

The westbound routing along Maloney from where Shefford-Lower Duck bridge would land towards either the A-50 or Gréber-Fournier is broken up by something like 25 traffic lights or more.

That's not a recipe for speed.

People coming off the bridge could go up Boulevard de l'Aéroport and catch the westbound A-50 there, but that highway tends to have similar peak period traffic conditions to the 174 between Trim and St-Laurent.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The principal advantage for Ottawa is it gets the Kathleen Wynne Interprovincial Truckway off of downtown streets, which is good for safety, tourism, the economy, etc. The second advantage is it gets a lot of the through traffic out of the core, which helps commuters from all over the city. The third advantage (assuming there is some sort of transit component) is balancing out the transit load of the city by moving some passengers to east side.

lol, enough with Kathleen Wynne bashing. She didn't personally force trucks to use King Edward. Planning fails for 100 years have caused that.

She did eat a bunch of babies though. Just sayin.