1737 Richmond Street - 22s mixed use (Approved)

CanadianTalk · #1 Posted **Mar 2, 2022, 10:00 PM**

The first planning application has been submitted since the Masonville Secondary Plan came into force last October.

A 22 story building is proposed, with commercial units on the first floor, residential units above and parking within the building.

This will replace part of an existing commercial block at the northwest corner of the Fanshawe Park Road and Richmond Street intersection (same corner where Best Buy / Staples is).

View from within the commercial property (looking southwest)

View from Fanshawe Park Road (looking north)

jammer139 · #2 Posted **Mar 2, 2022, 10:13 PM**

Here's the zoning application.

https://london.ca/sites/default/file...et%20final.pdf

CanadianTalk · #3 Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 7:01 PM**

Here is Westdell's master plan for this corner of Fanshawe Park Rd and Richmond St.

This specific application corresponds to Phase D on the plan:

jammer139 · #4 Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 8:48 PM**

Wow. I imagine Tricar is looking at this in respect to their previous proposal across the street and going back to their original 22s application. The local NIMBY's can go pound salt. Also Cadillac Fairview should be looking at this seriously in regards to their plans for the Mall parking lot redevelopment.

GreatTallNorth2 · #5 Posted **Mar 11, 2022, 2:42 PM**

I love seeing developments like this where you have integrated housing and commercial/retail together. It just makes so much sense and I don't understand why we don't see more of this. I get that land has been cheap in London for a long time so developers have always built retail and residential separate, but for a resident to live in a tower where they can walk out the door and have shops right there it is very convenient. And for a retailer to have hundreds of potential customers on site, it's a bonus. All they have to do is turn that drab parking lot into some public space where people would want to spend time.

Djeffery · #6 Posted **Mar 12, 2022, 12:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I love seeing developments like this where you have integrated housing and commercial/retail together. It just makes so much sense and I don't understand why we don't see more of this. I get that land has been cheap in London for a long time so developers have always built retail and residential separate, but for a resident to live in a tower where they can walk out the door and have shops right there it is very convenient. And for a retailer to have hundreds of potential customers on site, it's a bonus. All they have to do is turn that drab parking lot into some public space where people would want to spend time.

I agree, this is the type of place I can see moving to when I retire and want to get out of home ownership. On a smaller scale, my chiropractor is at West 5 and I like the way that area is starting to fill in. There are a lot of leased signs on the ground level retail, one of which is some kind of restaurant. Plus the slow slog of the York development across the road. 10 years from now, I can see it being a nicely done area.

jammer139 · #7 Posted **Mar 14, 2022, 11:38 PM**

LFP article on this proposal.

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...north-end-spot

jammer139 · #8 Posted **Mar 17, 2022, 4:21 PM**

Councillor Morgan voicing concerns about the number of sub market rate units in the proposal. Wants more to be added to approve bonus height. Apparently the height limit is 15s now. City really needs to get its planning fixed. On one hand you want to build up not out and you designate an area a transportation hub/node but you have old height limitations still on the planning books. Good grief how crazy can you be?

Djeffery · #9 Posted **Mar 18, 2022, 12:07 AM**

It's a fair ask to get more than 7 units at a lower than 85% of market rent in exchange for several more floors.

CanadianTalk · #10 Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 6:20 PM**

Application has been slightly revised. The height is still 22s, however there will be 276 residential units instead of 226, 2107 sq m of commercial space instead of 2527, and 326 parking spaces instead of 234.

Public meeting is scheduled for August 22nd

https://london.ca/sites/default/file...20Richmond.pdf

Updated renderings (original ones can be seen in the first post here):

jammer139 · #11 Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 7:01 PM**

Even better proposal now. More units and more density is what is needed. This is a transit hub and hopefully Westdell increased the number of affordable below market rent units in the revision. Would expect unanimous approval at committees and full council so the developer can get started ASAP. The plan is for a couple of more towers in this corner plaza over the next decade. Hopefully Tricar also goes back to their early proposal of 22s across the street and Cadillac Fairview finally moves forward with the redevelopment of the Mall parking lots with high rise towers. The name of the game is density density density.

jammer139 · #12 Posted **Aug 18, 2022, 5:03 PM**

Planning staff report including community feedback on the proposal. As usual the feedback is comedy gold.

https://pub-london.escribemeetings.c...cumentId=94246

CanadianTalk · #13 Posted **Aug 18, 2022, 5:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammer139

Planning staff report including community feedback on the proposal. As usual the feedback is comedy gold.

Oh goodness, comedy gold is correct.

What I find quite funny is that almost all of the people that submitted the comments live in Tricar's 'The Chantry' apartment building (which is 14 stories - yes, shorter than this 22s proposed, but I wouldn't necessarily call 14s a short building in terms of London context). I'm willing to bet that when their building was first proposed 20 something years ago, that the residents in the older neighbourhood south of Fanshawe complained about the zoning change, and didn't want the Chantry to be built since it would have been the first apartment building in the area at that time.

The point is that something that was completely new to the area 20 years ago, is now their home, and they are now trying to limit new growth for the area.

I hope council approves this. It has planning staff's approval, it's in one of only four designated transit villages throughout the entire city. This type of growth in transit villages is to be expected.

It checks all the boxes. Build it.

Djeffery · #14 Posted **Aug 18, 2022, 9:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianTalk

Oh goodness, comedy gold is correct.

What I find quite funny is that almost all of the people that submitted the comments live in Tricar's 'The Chantry' apartment building (which is 14 stories - yes, shorter than this 22s proposed, but I wouldn't necessarily call 14s a short building in terms of London context). I'm willing to bet that when their building was first proposed 20 something years ago, that the residents in the older neighbourhood south of Fanshawe complained about the zoning change, and didn't want the Chantry to be built since it would have been the first apartment building in the area at that time.

The point is that something that was, then, completely new to the area is now their home, and they are now trying to limit new growth for the area.

I hope council approves this. It has planning staff's approval, it's in one of only four designated transit villages throughout the entire city. This type of growth in transit villages is to be expected.

It checks all the boxes. Build it.

I seem to recall when that building was proposed that none other than the President of UWO was one of the people who objected, as his residence was at at the top of the hill behind there. Not sure if he lived in the former Labatt house (I think it was the Labatt house, maybe it was the London Life family?) immediately behind or if up on Chantry Place itself. Many thought it was ironic that he complained given the university's lack of concern for residents on Tower Lane when they built Elgin Hall Residence in their backyards.

CanadianTalk · #15 Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 3:33 PM**

Planning committee unanimously approves this. Goes to full council on September 6th.

Spoofy · #16 Posted **Aug 24, 2022, 4:13 PM**

.

CanadianTalk · #17 Posted **Aug 24, 2022, 4:46 PM**

Unfortunately, as much as I would love to see Tricar build their original 22s proposal (after all - this is a transit village and the design looked wayyy better), the chances of staff recommending Council to approve the 22s zoning, and the building actually being approved are low now.

Council passed the Masonville Secondary Plan last October 2021, and secondary plans take precedence over other plans. According to the plan, only "mid-rise" buildings would be permitted at 230 North Centre which include 2 stories to 8 stories. I marked 230 North Centre with a blue star below. Westdell's proposal falls under a "high-rise" designation which permits up to 22s.

Council granted the 15s zoning to Tricar four years ago, so since the Masonville plan didn't exist then, the rules of the plan do not apply. The fact that Tricar has a 15s zoning approved is quite amazing since they would be capped at 8s had they submitted a proposal for the first time now, as per the secondary plan. If hypothetically, Tricar brought back their original proposal, and council did approve the 22s zoning (despite what would be staff's recommendation to refuse), the NIMBYs in the area would unfortunately have a strong case if they were to appeal to OLT.

We saw a similar thing in Lambeth recently where the developer had wanted to build a 9s mixed use building, but since the Southwest Area Secondary Plan only permits heights up to 6s, they were strongly recommended by staff to reduce the height to 6s, which they ended up doing.

IMO, I think only permitting up to 8s on this site is dumb, but that's the plan.

jammer139 · #18 Posted **Aug 24, 2022, 5:26 PM**

Totally stupid. Given just up at Villagewalk there are plans for three 12s buildings. Across the road on the NE corner is a 10s building proposal by York and further north on the east side of Richmond, Old Oak has proposal for 2 more of their 16s L shaped buildings. Eight stories on North Center Rd and Richmond is insane and whoever came up with that on the Masonville Secondary Plan was clearly pandering to the Nimbys. Tricar should bring back their 22s proposal and challenge council and the Nimby's to justify the 8s height limit at the corner of Richmond and North Center. This is supposed to be a transit village and the Province is pushing hard on building 1.5M more homes within 10 years. Density density density is the name of the game and the OLT would likely rule in favor of Tricar to build more units rather then less.

CanadianTalk · #19 Posted **Sep 11, 2022, 10:46 PM**

At the last meeting, council unanimously passed the zoning change to permit this development.

jammer139 · #20 Posted **May 16, 2023, 4:47 PM**

Zedd has posted a rendering of the 2nd Westdell proposed tower for the Hyland Centre plaza. This tower would be where the Beer Store is currently located fronting onto Richmond.

Apparently the Masonville Secondary Plan is still in limbo given appeal to the OLT which still hasn't made its way thru that bureaucracy. The Case Status website is next to useless given the lack of any meaningful information it provides. Doesn't even provide the name of who appealed. Could it be Westdell or Tricar or Cadillac Fairview?

https://www.zeddarchitecture.com/22-009