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  #18841  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2017, 11:26 AM
speagles84 speagles84 is offline
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Originally Posted by photoLith View Post
^
Thats all fine and dandy but its now 2017 and not 1990 and developers should be responsible with valuable land next to downtown and build it up to the standards that every other city in America is seeing and not building developments that belong in suburbia next to downtown.
I feel your frustrations, but at the same time in concerned if there is too much opposition, they will just continue to land bank it and leave the damn parking lots there for another 20 years. They can always build something on the surface lots later (hopefully). But scrapping the project entirely poses the bigger risk of asphalt prairie.

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Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
I don't love every design choice Oxford made with Three Crossings, but overall that is a very nice project, which was done quickly and has helped spark more development in the area. I'd give them a solid B+.

And that is part of what irks me about Buncher's plans. We KNOW it is possible in this era to do much better. So why aren't they?

Sure, surface parking lots suck--but a lot of that was folks like Buncher land-banking. Now finally they develop, and it isn't even up to current standards? AND it is locking in a lot of surface parking for the future!

So a long wait for crappy development is kinda hard for me to celebrate. I'd give them a D for the development itself--which does in fact go to an F when you realize they were the ones land-banking in the first place.
See above. I'm not sure, I wish it were better, but until there is an even bigger demand for density than we have finally achieved, we may have to settle for some fair projects until we truly hit the critical mass.
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  #18842  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2017, 1:18 PM
eschaton eschaton is offline
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I would just like to point out (especially to you transplants) that projects like these only deserve about half the criticism you give them. (I'm not very into architecture like many of you, but I am all for rebuilding our urban core as dense as fiscally possible).

Projects like this and 3 crossings and even (to a small extent) the north shore, are C- to C in my book. They aren't the largest scale or densest (although I hate the surface lot in this butcher one) projects, but damn they are still WAY better than parking lots.

I'm in no way thrilled about them, but at LEAST they are being developed finally. You transplants didn't live through all the years here of just straight parking lots as far as the eye can see - that sucked. I've waited decades for these brownfield and lots to be redeveloped and yes they aren't the greatest but finally something is being done.

It's like acting like a C- is the same as an F. Yes, it's not what you want but it's still progress in the right direction.
You meant to reply to my post on Buncher's project, not Schweitzer Lock, right?

Anyway, as Mr. Tucker-Hill noted, it's not so much that Buncher's project is horrible, as it is that other developers - most notably Oxford in the Strip, but also Walnut Capital in Bakery Square, and the various developers in South Side Works - have managed to build out urban fringe office space without the seas of parking. Thus the market can clearly bear something more expensive than a suburban-style office park. The other portions of the city where we've seen office space with seas of parking - the North Shore and Pittsburgh Technology Center - the development started much earlier, and there are compounding factors (Steelers influence on the North Shore, and geographic isolation for PTC).

Regardless, in other cities (including Philadelphia here in our state) past experience has shown that it's really a bad idea to have the "bundling" of massive amounts of property for large developments. It both slows down development and results in less ideal results from a density/urban built form perspective. I have no doubt if Buncher's Strip District parcels were split among multiple companies there would have been a ton of infill by this time, because the medium-sized developments in the Strip are being built at a fast and furious pace.
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  #18843  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2017, 6:24 PM
speagles84 speagles84 is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
You meant to reply to my post on Buncher's project, not Schweitzer Lock, right?

Anyway, as Mr. Tucker-Hill noted, it's not so much that Buncher's project is horrible, as it is that other developers - most notably Oxford in the Strip, but also Walnut Capital in Bakery Square, and the various developers in South Side Works - have managed to build out urban fringe office space without the seas of parking. Thus the market can clearly bear something more expensive than a suburban-style office park. The other portions of the city where we've seen office space with seas of parking - the North Shore and Pittsburgh Technology Center - the development started much earlier, and there are compounding factors (Steelers influence on the North Shore, and geographic isolation for PTC).

Regardless, in other cities (including Philadelphia here in our state) past experience has shown that it's really a bad idea to have the "bundling" of massive amounts of property for large developments. It both slows down development and results in less ideal results from a density/urban built form perspective. I have no doubt if Buncher's Strip District parcels were split among multiple companies there would have been a ton of infill by this time, because the medium-sized developments in the Strip are being built at a fast and furious pace.
Yes.

I understand that even the B rated developments make this project look like crap, but at this rate I'm ready to accept a few of these just to develop the core faster. If the day comes Pittsburgh warrants Hudson Yards (okay that's an exaggeration) style development, this project will be my first vote to tear down and build denser.

I'm just primarily concerned if they get rejected nothing will be built for another 20 years. I'd rather have a crappier development than nothing at all.
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  #18844  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2017, 6:43 PM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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Originally Posted by speagles84 View Post

I understand that even the B rated developments make this project look like crap, but at this rate I'm ready to accept a few of these just to develop the core faster. If the day comes Pittsburgh warrants Hudson Yards (okay that's an exaggeration) style development, this project will be my first vote to tear down and build denser.
The problem is that projects like these actually hinder the greater development of the core, by creating disconnect and less foot traffic/more auto traffic, with dead zones where there could be connection and spreading economic vitality. A stand alone, 4-story office plaza with a relatively large surface parking lot does little more to develop the core than a completely empty surface parking lot does. Look no further than Buncher's own One Waterfront Place office building (the Seagate building)... it might as well not even exist... and that's exactly what they are proposing once again, only smaller this time!

No one here is under the impression that a development on the scale of a Hudson Yards, but a development with even a small fraction of the design/connectivity/use case thinking of a major project like that would go a long way in bridging downtown and the Strip with a much more lively and economically vibrant corridor. There are developments (not great, but improvements) in close proximity that could serve as a basic model, as others have mentioned.

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Originally Posted by speagles84 View Post
I'm just primarily concerned if they get rejected nothing will be built for another 20 years. I'd rather have a crappier development than nothing at all.
I would rather have nothing at all. Because demand WILL be there for something much better, and Buncher will sell as soon as the price is right for them. Them selling is actually the best scenario for Pittsburgh, and it might happen.

Last edited by Private Dick; Apr 28, 2017 at 6:56 PM.
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  #18845  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2017, 6:51 PM
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Lets all hope they sell that land instead of building shit on it. Id rather see it sit as parking for another ten years then see a suburban office park built on it which will stand for who knows long.
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  #18846  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2017, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by speagles84 View Post
See above. I'm not sure, I wish it were better, but until there is an even bigger demand for density than we have finally achieved, we may have to settle for some fair projects until we truly hit the critical mass.
As others mentioned, I have a hard time believing this is really demand-driven given what Oxford has done.

But for good or ill, I doubt there will be much if any official opposition.
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  #18847  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 6:11 PM
AFW523 AFW523 is offline
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The dimwitted, slack-jawed yokels successfully NIMBY'd the Fort Pitt bike lane.

I hold this city in very high regard, but nothing makes me feel more small-town, podunk than when small infrastructure pieces like this, that every city on the GD planet has had for 10 years, gets shot down. It doesn't really affect me, because I rarely ride a bike and when I do, I don't mind being in an non-protected traffic lane but man these people are just so simple minded that it makes me wonder how we ever get anything done around here.

Sometimes, on simple issues, the government needs to tell everyone what is good for them and just act unilaterally. This is one of those times.
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  #18848  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AFW523 View Post
The dimwitted, slack-jawed yokels successfully NIMBY'd the Fort Pitt bike lane.

I hold this city in very high regard, but nothing makes me feel more small-town, podunk than when small infrastructure pieces like this, that every city on the GD planet has had for 10 years, gets shot down. It doesn't really affect me, because I rarely ride a bike and when I do, I don't mind being in an non-protected traffic lane but man these people are just so simple minded that it makes me wonder how we ever get anything done around here.

Sometimes, on simple issues, the government needs to tell everyone what is good for them and just act unilaterally. This is one of those times.
Agreed. Very disappointing.
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  #18849  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 6:57 PM
eschaton eschaton is offline
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As long as a bike lane is built somewhere nearby - probably Boulevard of the Allies, as I'm sure the same owners would be pissed about street parking being lost on First Avenue - I don't think this is the worst thing it the world.
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  #18850  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 7:11 PM
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Important question! Please respond if you are able. This thread is near its expiration deadline (1,000 pages) and I must start preparing for its replacement.

This Pittsburgh Development Thread Part II is nearing it's end date as per forum rules - We are nearing 1,000 pages of discussion at which point a new thread is required to be created. I am still interested in preparing it and making the 1st page list of projects look top-rate with all details, high-res photos and information for as many construction or renovation projects as possible.

I am hoping that some of the other wonderful Pittsburgh thread contributors can help me remember & list the CURRENT and most up to date, innovative; best; most impactful; largest; projects that are under construction or approved & about to begin construction. Smaller infill projects are great too but I would like to create the Development Rundown III thread starting with the biggest projects and then descend down to smaller infill and rehabs. Also: Renovations, rehabs & repurposing. Things like the Oliver building or the Kaufmann building will be included in the development list. I plan to include a list of large downtown office buildings that have been converted to residential or multi-use. (eg. Hotel/Residential/Restauarant)

I have been neglectful in adding or removing projects on page 1 over the last year but this is the natural time to start with a blank slate and start again with the newest and best projects on display, as of 2017.

Please heed my call! And thank you in advance.

For example: What IS the biggest building currently under construction or approved to be built in the city currently? I'm not even sure. Last time it was easy! The Tower at PNC Plaza dominated the development news,
I would say currently, the B.I.G. proposal of the lower hill is the largest and grandest but that design is not even a guarantee. So please help me out with ideas. Just list the names of the projects and I will do the arduous work of spending many hours of my free time tracking down project info, pics, links.
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  #18851  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 8:16 PM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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Originally Posted by Austinlee View Post
Important question! Please respond if you are able. This thread is near its expiration deadline (1,000 pages) and I must start preparing for its replacement.

This Pittsburgh Development Thread Part II is nearing it's end date as per forum rules - We are nearing 1,000 pages of discussion at which point a new thread is required to be created. I am still interested in preparing it and making the 1st page list of projects look top-rate with all details, high-res photos and information for as many construction or renovation projects as possible.

I am hoping that some of the other wonderful Pittsburgh thread contributors can help me remember & list the CURRENT and most up to date, innovative; best; most impactful; largest; projects that are under construction or approved & about to begin construction. Smaller infill projects are great too but I would like to create the Development Rundown III thread starting with the biggest projects and then descend down to smaller infill and rehabs. Also: Renovations, rehabs & repurposing. Things like the Oliver building or the Kaufmann building will be included in the development list. I plan to include a list of large downtown office buildings that have been converted to residential or multi-use. (eg. Hotel/Residential/Restauarant)

I have been neglectful in adding or removing projects on page 1 over the last year but this is the natural time to start with a blank slate and start again with the newest and best projects on display, as of 2017.

Please heed my call! And thank you in advance.

For example: What IS the biggest building currently under construction or approved to be built in the city currently? I'm not even sure. Last time it was easy! The Tower at PNC Plaza dominated the development news,
I would say currently, the B.I.G. proposal of the lower hill is the largest and grandest but that design is not even a guarantee. So please help me out with ideas. Just list the names of the projects and I will do the arduous work of spending many hours of my free time tracking down project info, pics, links.
First, congrats to the Pittsburgh forumers on the need for a third installment of this thread.

Second, Austinlee, thanks for taking the initiative once again. Propers to you!

Third, for U/C projects in Pittsburgh... the biggest are probably the Strip/Buncher development, right? Approved: probably the Forest City development near Station Square? Proposed: I guess the BIG plans and/or Hazelwood/Almono?

Some other things in various levels of progress off the top of my head:

North Shore
- SAP office bldg
- Carnegie Science Center expansion
- Casino hotel
- Millcraft Chateau development?

Southside
- SSW office buildings (2)

East End
- Baumhaus
- Walnut Capital res development on Centre
- Walnut Penn Highland retail
- Penn Plaza/LG Realty/Whole Foods lot
- North Oakland Craig/Centre apt building
- Forbes Ave Arby's apartment building
- Hotel Indigo in PTC
- PAA hotel
- Squirrel Hill Poli development
- CMU campus construction
- BRT proposal
- Shadyside Armory redevelopment

Aspinwall/Sharpsburg
- Riverfront Park
- Fort Pitt Brewery redevelopment


Downtown, Strip, L'ville just have too much (which is something we really couldn't say a few years ago in Pittsburgh!) for me to keep track of in my head. Others on here can contribute much more accurately than I can.

Last edited by Private Dick; May 2, 2017 at 2:47 AM.
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  #18852  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 8:45 PM
AFW523 AFW523 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austinlee View Post
Important question! Please respond if you are able. This thread is near its expiration deadline (1,000 pages) and I must start preparing for its replacement.

This Pittsburgh Development Thread Part II is nearing it's end date as per forum rules - We are nearing 1,000 pages of discussion at which point a new thread is required to be created. I am still interested in preparing it and making the 1st page list of projects look top-rate with all details, high-res photos and information for as many construction or renovation projects as possible.

I am hoping that some of the other wonderful Pittsburgh thread contributors can help me remember & list the CURRENT and most up to date, innovative; best; most impactful; largest; projects that are under construction or approved & about to begin construction. Smaller infill projects are great too but I would like to create the Development Rundown III thread starting with the biggest projects and then descend down to smaller infill and rehabs. Also: Renovations, rehabs & repurposing. Things like the Oliver building or the Kaufmann building will be included in the development list. I plan to include a list of large downtown office buildings that have been converted to residential or multi-use. (eg. Hotel/Residential/Restauarant)

I have been neglectful in adding or removing projects on page 1 over the last year but this is the natural time to start with a blank slate and start again with the newest and best projects on display, as of 2017.

Please heed my call! And thank you in advance.

For example: What IS the biggest building currently under construction or approved to be built in the city currently? I'm not even sure. Last time it was easy! The Tower at PNC Plaza dominated the development news,
I would say currently, the B.I.G. proposal of the lower hill is the largest and grandest but that design is not even a guarantee. So please help me out with ideas. Just list the names of the projects and I will do the arduous work of spending many hours of my free time tracking down project info, pics, links.
Crane Watch

Should be noted that I believe they only list projects over $10 mil.
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  #18853  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 1:45 AM
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Thanks Austin for making the contribution of your time to the forum. I'll add to the excellent list Private Dick started for the East End/Oakland stuff. I also am passing on Downtown/The Strip and Lawrenceville:

Oakland:

-SkyVue (wrapping up and mostly occupied but still technically not completed)
-Marriott at 3339 Forbes in Oakland next to Skyvue (U/C)
-The Murland/Murdoch project (7-story office) 3422 Frobes across the street from the above two developments (Proposed)
-CMU: Tepper School (U/C)
-CMU: Tata Center at Forbes near Craig (Site Prep)
-Oakland Gateway Phase II (proposed)
-Bates St. Apartment Project/Oakland Gateway Ventures

Sq Hill:

Forward/Murray/

-Poli project is Action Housing (Proposed & Breaking Ground in June)
-Condo project proposed across Murray at the Burton Hirsch site (Proposed)

East Liberty/Baum/Centre:

-Alphabet City proposal in East Liberty on Penn and Centre (Proposed)
-Centre Avenue project (the Emerald) Oxford Development (U/C)
-Walnut Capital Townhouses at Bakery Square (U/C)
-Retail Development at Liberty/Baum/S. Atlantic (Proposed)
-Office Project at Baum/Negley and across the st. on top of Aldi's project (Proposed)
-Broad St. Enright Ct. housing (proposed)
-UPMC Morewood project (proposed & U/C)

North Side:

-October Development Hotel East Ohio St. (U/C)
-Garden Theater Project (Proposed)
-Nova Place/Allegheny Center rehab (U/C)

South Side:

-Forest City Apartment Development/Station Sq. (Proposed)
-McKnight Realty Terminal Building Conversion (Proposed)
-Edwards Communities Birmingham Bridge apartment project (Proposed)





Quote:
Originally Posted by Private Dick View Post
First, congrats to the Pittsburgh forumers on the need for a third installment of this thread.

Second, Austinlee, thanks for taking the initiative once again. Propers to you!

Third, for U/C projects in Pittsburgh... the biggest are probably the Strip/Buncher development, right? Approved: probably the Forest City development near Station Square? Proposed: I guess the BIG plans and/or Hazelwood/Almono?

Some other things in various levels of progress off the top of my head:

North Shore
- SAP office bldg
- Carnegie Science Center expansion
- Casino hotel
- Millcraft Chateau development?

Southside
- SSW office buildings (2)

East End
- Baumhaus
- Walnut Capital res development on Centre
- Walnut Penn Highland retail
- Penn Plaza/LG Realty/Whole Foods lot
- North Oakland Craig/Centre apt building
- Forbes Ave Arby's apartment building
- Hotel Indigo in PTC
- PAA hotel
- Squirrel Hill Poli development
- CMU campus construction
- BRT proposal

Aspinwall/Sharpsburg
- Riverfront Park
- Fort Pitt Brewery redevelopment


Downtown, Strip, L'ville just have too much (which is something we really couldn't say a few years ago in Pittsburgh!) for me to keep track of in my head. Others on here can contribute much more accurately than I can.

Last edited by Wave; May 2, 2017 at 2:01 AM.
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  #18854  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 2:45 AM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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^ Nice, thanks for providing more clarity/detail about some of the ones I vaguely described, and for adding a lot more good ones.
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  #18855  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 2:49 AM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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Posted this in city discussions, but I think this is more the audience for a pretty nice piece from a Philly publication, no less. Nothing we haven't heard before, but it's nice to see Pittsburgh get some accolades.

http://www.phillymag.com/business/20...ch-innovation/

Last edited by Private Dick; May 2, 2017 at 3:29 AM.
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  #18856  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 3:11 AM
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^^ I'm getting a "Page not found" from that link.

Try this one...

http://www.phillymag.com/business/20...ch-innovation/
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  #18857  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 3:30 AM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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^ Thanks, sorry about that
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  #18858  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 10:09 AM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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I'd also recommend that Philly Mag article. In a way the concept that contemporary Pittsburgh combines livability with opportunity for innovators is not very new, but I think the article does a nice job framing why that could be very important over the next few decades of city development.
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  #18859  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 10:13 AM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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Update on the Oakland BRT funding situation:

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/ci...ersion=pgevoke

The uncertainty over transit capital funding at the federal level squarely affects this project. But fortunately, the wind seems to be blowing in favor of Congress restoring continuity, notwithstanding the temporary freeze in new project funding announced by the Trump Administration. If so, everyone seems very confident this project will get funding--which I agree with, because this project has been developed in concert with the feds and really is pitched exactly at what their current funding criteria require.
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  #18860  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 10:20 AM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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The Roosevelt Arms is getting some TLC, thanks to a new owner with a deep family history in the property:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business...ersion=pgevoke

It is already a fantastic building:



But this sounds nice:

Quote:
Now that he has it, Mr. Wilson intends to invest “substantial” money “to bring the building up to the standards it deserves.” That will include spending more than $1 million to clean and re-point the building’s exterior brick and to restore its Indiana limestone. Windows will be re-caulked and bricks will be removed and replaced in 22 places where walls have bulged or lintels have rusted. “This building’s going to just pop,” he said.
There is also an interesting discussion about how it will remain a combination of market-rate and subsidized. There are some vocal people who tend to claim this just can't work, but in fact it can and does work in many cities.
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